Forum Changes!
Apr 27, 2008 at 9:43 AM Post #31 of 71
I look forward greatly to the separate high end forum and the separation of portable and full size.

Will the changes be retroactive is the question? Will old threads on IEMs be moved to the portable forum?
 
Apr 27, 2008 at 10:28 AM Post #33 of 71
Quote:

Originally Posted by Arainach /img/forum/go_quote.gif
I'm still not a fan of the DBT forum. Segregating an entire side of the debate into its own sub-forum does nothing, as no useful debates will ever go on there. The people who believe in magical silver pixie dust will stay in "their" forum, while anyone who dares ask for a bit of proof or evidence is shunned like a second-class citizen and shoved to the back of the forum.


Nah, it'll be fine and where all the action will go. The threads where someone asks for a cable recommendation or posts a review usually get a few posts and die off after a day or two. It's the controversial threads that go on for weeks and hundreds of posts. Move the controversy elsewhere and the posts will follow. Allowing DBT discussions is a good idea, as well.
 
Apr 27, 2008 at 11:09 AM Post #34 of 71
It's time.

Our forums has grown large enough to warrant subdivisions.

Especially the Full sized cans and IEM subforums.

Sadly the Full sized can forum will be more of a vintage and nostalgia forum.

As for High End "Summit-Fi". I think it's going to be a mess to start off until some more defined guidlines are in place. And it will be a messy mix of high end sources, amps, cans, everything.

I know a lot of people have trouble with having a dollar amount defining what is "High End" and what is not, but it might have to come down to that. Take AVS Forums for example. They have their projector forums split by a $10,000 threshold. Of course, Moore's law having a monkey wrench thrown in as usual with Technology, everything get's better and cheaper, but there is still something that is a pinnacle product. And they don't come cheap.

-Ed
 
Apr 27, 2008 at 12:10 PM Post #35 of 71
Some good points being made! All of which I agree with. Some things we know: 1) It will be messy. 2) It will take some time. Which I am more than willing to give.
 
Apr 27, 2008 at 1:38 PM Post #37 of 71
Finally, a forum to separate the MDR-R10 from the MDR-10
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Apr 27, 2008 at 1:54 PM Post #40 of 71
I agree with the others about reverting to the old FS format.

Otherwise, I like the changes and hope that as the various messes resolve we end up better off.

I like vcoheda's criteria for defining high-end given the sad reality of needing to establish this class division. Some line needs to be drawn for everyone's guidance though I don't think it needs to be strictly followed--unlike that for the Objectivist Forum which needs to be.
 
Apr 27, 2008 at 2:11 PM Post #41 of 71
Yeah. I was just poking around the new FS and I don't even know how to navigate them. I guess I will just have to get use to it. Maybe if I knew why it was split that way.
 
Apr 27, 2008 at 2:35 PM Post #42 of 71
I have some issues with the changes.

1. It will be Year Zero in each new forum for products that have been extensively discussed before under the previous regime. Now, when people do a search on some portable amp, for example, they are going to narrow the search (logically) to the new Portable Amp section which will only be populated by threads started since the split. He then misses out on all the great info, accumulated wisdom, and threads from the old general Amps section. It's like rolling back the clock to 2001 when Head-Fi opened. Every valuable (or worthless) contribution folks have made on the topics of any product that now finds itself classed in a new forum are lost to searchers (unless they somehow know to look for info on portable amps in the full-size amp section, which I assume is where all the old threads will reside). This will devalue the worth of Head-Fi in the short-term as a source of information, until we've got a few years worth of comments built up in the new forums. however, it effectively erases a lot of valuable thoughts/comparisons, etc. To be frank, for old-timers like me, for example, it means that a lot of the contributions/reviews/comments we've made over the years will get buried. Me no likey.
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2. I don't understand the "High End" forum. No one here agrees on what "high-end" is. To some people, it's a $200 set of Grados, for others, if we're not talking about the L3000, R10, Stax or Orpheus, it ain't "high end". And "high-end" what? Headphones? Amps? Cables? Sources? Soundcards? It seems redundant to me. Now we've created a little information worm-hole where again valuable info gets sucked into a place some people won't think to look. Valuable stuff that should appear in this forum ends up somewhere else, and valaubale stuff will be posted in this forum that will be missed by people looking elsewhere for info. Again, if Head-Fi's function is to make finding info on headphones easy, I think this forum just unnecessarily complicates that. I expect this forum's chief topic of discussion will be what belongs in here and what doesn't. Some will be accused of being "snobs" for rejecting certain gear from being discussed here, etc. It could get ugly. Is it about performance of just sticker price?

3. Dividing the Amps section into 3 parts almost seems like a solution in search of a problem to me. Were there issues with people finding info in the existing section? Again by slicing it up, we segregate a lot of valuable info into a place people won't think to look for it.

4. I, Objectivist can't come soon enough.
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However, now that objectivists have a forum and platform, I expect this means mods will be a lot more rigorous in enforcing the boundaries between what they can and can't say in the rest of the forums. I expect (perhaps naively) that drive-by thread craps in the Cables section will stop, snide remarks will stop, new threads talking about this or that new study on how stupid audiophiles are will stop, etc. In other words, we get our old Cables section back with no interference. Right? Right?
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Apr 27, 2008 at 2:51 PM Post #43 of 71
Quote:

Originally Posted by vcoheda /img/forum/go_quote.gif
to me, it means: HP1000, PS1, K1000, 010, R10, L3000, as well as HE60, HE90, O2; and then amps around $2K or higher and sources about 4K retail and more.

as for general criteria, if you're not sure, it probably isn't.



I can see the need and have great hopes for the prosperity of a "High End" subforum here.
Yes, I can see where this division is going to be contentious in its definition.

Setting the bar to high may not generate enough discussion, although set the bar slightly more appropriately than say exclusively the price points mentioned, and more inline with performance of high end sonic delivery systems, then I can see many more useful and lively discussions as well as many more interesting topic threads!

Decisions made upon the criteria of "The High End" subforum, will dictate the success of its division either that of exclusivity or one of utility. IMHO
 
Apr 27, 2008 at 3:52 PM Post #44 of 71
I only have a couple of problems with the new forums. First, as markl mentioned, it will be Year Zero in the new forums. This will cause problems when using the search function. Unless of course the mods plan on reviewing all existing posts and move them to the appropriate forum. The other issue is that many threads often cover topics that will now cross forums (e.g. full sized vs. IEM, etc.)

I also think strict guidelines need to be defined as to what is high end. And how exactly do you define it? Is it price alone? What about gear that costs less than 1K but is often compared to other gear costing thousands more? Although the term high end is used primarily with regard to cost, does high performance gear also qualify?
 
Apr 27, 2008 at 4:18 PM Post #45 of 71
The issue of searching and starting at a new Year Zero that Markl raised is a serious one. It reminds me of my long-standing frustration with the search function in general at Head-Fi. It is too limited and unspecific. And it is segregated to searches within a given forum or topic. Many other discussion forums have broader and more specific search capabilities.

1. One should be able to search for key words with an any of these or all of these option.
2. One should be able to specify which forum or forums to search in at once. This could be a solution to the issue Markl raised since one could be given the option to search in a newly formed forum and the prior one(s) and so not lose access to the posts of the past where the old forum has been divided.

As to the High-End criterion issue: I think the obvious problem has been exaggerated. An arbitrary price guideline could be only loosely maintained intentionally to avoid most of the predicted arguments about price. Quality is a different matter. It seems to me that if some component well below the line in price rivals those above it and that is what the post is about or why someone wishes to include it in a High-End thread explicitly because of this, I don't see how that would be a problem. It would be desirable. How price and quality do or don't align would regularly be an issue for this forum, it seems to me.
 

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