[oqvist]

I guess they are so psyched by the unbeatable mercedes they are desperately doing anything to win rather then try to secure second best. But for sure if Ricciardo is posting those times it can explain the snowball effect of super strange decisions.

 

[Hutnicks]

  Toto called Jos and said Mercedes would pay Max 300 million dollars for staying out of the championship battle ... But no that theory is wild can´t see it happening but I was scratching my head as to why for sure. Drivers felt the balance was so bad they just felt force to try another tire?
 
As for tires it was the wet that created the dynamics not that the tires didn´t worn or anything. If anything that people went and pitted for intermediates did change things a bit rather as if all had just stayed on wets like they where supposed to. 

 
The tyre thing (dear lord I do love to harp). The wet takes the whole degradation thing out of the question. Bumbledoors quips aside. There is no pressure conundrum and no we have to pit in 10 laps crap with the wets. Oddly Bernie himself wished for more wet races (even going so far as to propose spinklers) while he was the driving force behind the Pirelli incredible disintegrating tyre scenario.
 
 The wet race gives us what we all dream off. Parity. Horsepower neutralization and the elimination of the "undercut" as a viable strategy. Lets hope someone is paying attention in the uber echelons of F1 management.

 

[MuZo2]

Dennis quits McLaren, how does it impact Honda-McLaren in near future and long term project. Another person who might leave is Alonso.

 

[gr8soundz]

Massa, Button, now Ron (and who knows what other big names) are all gone in 2017. F1 is ever changing but it will look a lot different next year.
 

 

[Hutnicks]

  Dennis quits McLaren, how does it impact Honda-McLaren in near future and long term project. Another person who might leave is Alonso.

I guess you could say the shareholders "Buttoned" him up
 
No loss at all to Maclaren, he is far to long in the tooth and destructive to the overall health of the effort. They should never have let him back in after his last forced leave.
 
As for Alonso, no great loss if he leaves either. He hit his sell by date at Ferrari and now his mental game is so far gone I would be surprised if he could win a WDC even at Merc.
 
 With Volkswagen collapsing out of motorsport there is a glut of management talent around.

 

[Muinarc]

F1 was due for a cleansing, we need more bone-headed youths in the sport to make starts exciting again. I miss ole Takuma Sato and his antics.

 

[Hutnicks]

  F1 was due for a cleansing, we need more bone-headed youths in the sport to make starts exciting again. I miss ole Takuma Sato and his antics.

Well lets see what the strategy group comes up with

  Bound to be some interesting ideas from the new overlords.
 
Sato was great and in lieu of him we have a progressively more mentally irregular Deutche Scud pilot. Almost as good on most starts
 
New management all round the old guards teams will work wonders (except of course, at the SCUD who just find new ways to get it wrong.)
 
Denis' statement that "My management style hasn't changed" is the tell there. He just does not get it.. That kind of thing goes noticed by multibillionaire stockholders and such. Being one step up the ladder from Manure last year and being at the helm for the largest fine ever levied in sports history did him no good as well.
 Long term acrimony over his attempts at Bernies job and failing that, threats to split off and form a new series (wanna know the reason behind those huge SCUD yearly payouts, ask Ron) left him unfriended in the upper ranks of FIAdom and Bernieland. One can make an easy guess that the new Masters as well were more than a little concerned at having a loose canon floating around who twice attempted to wrest the series out of Bernies grasp. At a 4 billion plus investment level, that is one annoyance you do not want around.

 

[gr8soundz]

  F1 was due for a cleansing, we need more bone-headed youths in the sport to make starts exciting again. I miss ole Takuma Sato and his antics.

 
I always thought Sato was a good driver in a below average car. But some drivers take too many risks like Grosjean used to (risking other drivers' lives; Max is borderline at times).
 
Many new drivers do the same because they may only get a few races to prove themselves. They're lucky if even the lower teams give them half a season.
 

Well lets see what the strategy group comes up with

  Bound to be some interesting ideas from the new overlords.
 
Sato was great and in lieu of him we have a progressively more mentally irregular Deutche Scud pilot. Almost as good on most starts
 
New management all round the old guards teams will work wonders (except of course, at the SCUD who just find new ways to get it wrong.)
 
Denis' statement that "My management style hasn't changed" is the tell there. He just does not get it.. That kind of thing goes noticed by multibillionaire stockholders and such. Being one step up the ladder from Manure last year and being at the helm for the largest fine ever levied in sports history did him no good as well.
 Long term acrimony over his attempts at Bernies job and failing that, threats to split off and form a new series (wanna know the reason behind those huge SCUD yearly payouts, ask Ron) left him unfriended in the upper ranks of FIAdom and Bernieland. One can make an easy guess that the new Masters as well were more than a little concerned at having a loose canon floating around who twice attempted to wrest the series out of Bernies grasp. At a 4 billion plus investment level, that is one annoyance you do not want around.

 
Even if Ron is a bit old school, the team won a lot when he was around including their last championship in 2008 with Lewis (whom Ron signed many years before). Shame they don't give him time when the team is in development.
 
I admit 2 years is already too long for a top team to work out the kinks but Mclaren (as a team) is mostly to blame. All their engine troubles stem from Mclaren engineers demanding that Honda reduce the package size. Now their stuck with a lump that is too small to reliably put out the power they need.
 

 

[Hutnicks]

   
I always thought Sato was a good driver in a below average car. But some drivers take too many risks like Grosjean used to (risking other drivers' lives; Max is borderline at times).
 
Many new drivers do the same because they may only get a few races to prove themselves. They're lucky if even the lower teams give them half a season.
 
 
Even if Ron is a bit old school, the team won a lot when he was around including their last championship in 2008 with Lewis (whom Ron signed many years before). Shame they don't give him time when the team is in development.
 
I admit 2 years is already too long for a top team to work out the kinks but Mclaren (as a team) is mostly to blame. All their engine troubles stem from Mclaren engineers demanding that Honda reduce the package size. Now their stuck with a lump that is too small to reliably put out the power they need.
 

In any sport (or war for that matter) you are only as good as your last win. The game evolved Ron won't and a whole new mangement strategy is needed. Red Bull and Merc nailed it down tight with their structures but Ron insisted on micro managing the whole works. That does not fly in this era.
His ultimate sin of course is not realizing he would not be there for ever and coming up with a succession plan.
He was given time with the development. How long do you expect them give him while they hemorrhage money, in lost winnings and fleeing sponsors? Not to mention outrageous driver salaries to pilot a car that largely cannot even get out of it's own way.
The writing was on the wall for some years now and it is a shame he did not pursue an elegant departure. The old guard never lacked for hubris.

 

[gr8soundz]

In any sport (or war for that matter) you are only as good as your last win. The game evolved Ron won't and a whole new mangement strategy is needed. Red Bull and Merc nailed it down tight with their structures but Ron insisted on micro managing the whole works. That does not fly in this era.
His ultimate sin of course is not realizing he would not be there for ever and coming up with a succession plan.
He was given time with the development. How long do you expect them give him while they hemorrhage money, in lost winnings and fleeing sponsors? Not to mention outrageous driver salaries to pilot a car that largely cannot even get out of it's own way.
The writing was on the wall for some years now and it is a shame he did not pursue an elegant departure. The old guard never lacked for hubris.

 
All true, but its ridiculous how every team management and sponsors have forgotten that instant results are nearly impossible in F1.
 
Mercedes went through 2 years (3 if you count Lewis' 1st year with them) developing the car to get where they are now. Schumacher came out of retirement but went nowhere during those development years. Things might have moved quicker if Ross Brawn hadn't been forced out.
 
Now teams like Red Bull kick and scream like brats after going through 1 year of engine development (almost lost their engines and left the sport too). Good thing they still have Adrian Newey. Where would they be without his old-school method of designing aero packages with pen and paper?
 
So yes, F1 evolves but everything newer isn't better. Engines lost that wail we loved to hear and teams like Ferrari have devolved after making too many changes.
 
What happens if Mclaren does even worse without Ron?
 

 

[Hutnicks]

   
All true, but its ridiculous how every team management and sponsors have forgotten that instant results are nearly impossible in F1.
 
Mercedes went through 2 years (3 if you count Lewis' 1st year with them) developing the car to get where they are now. Schumacher came out of retirement but went nowhere during those development years. Things might have moved quicker if Ross Brawn hadn't been forced out.
 
Now teams like Red Bull kick and scream like brats after going through 1 year of engine development (almost lost their engines and left the sport too). Good thing they still have Adrian Newey. Where would they be without his old-school method of designing aero packages with pen and paper?
 
So yes, F1 evolves but everything newer isn't better. Engines lost that wail we loved to hear and teams like Ferrari have devolved after making too many changes.
 
What happens if Mclaren does even worse without Ron?
 

The only way they could do worse is to be dead last in constructors. While a possibility I think it highly unlikely as long as Manure is around. There is boatloads of evidence of mismanagement there. I mean bringing back Alonso had to be the big trigger for the higher ups. There was a relationship that went down to open warfare and attempted extortion and sabotage and he brings the guy back in. Then give him a losing proposition of a car. What could possibly go wrong?
From a business point of view ditching the Merc engine is going to go down in history as the dumbest idea since Enzo stated the rear engine layout would never catch on. Had they hung in there and given Honda a year or two to do pre development they would have been in a much healthier position.
 
The silent part here is Honda's play in all this. I am dying to hear what they have to say once someone is appointed to Rons position.
 
 The obverse to your argument about development time plays out as follows. The new era of limited testing really does slow things down. Schumacher's return was a demonstration of that. Without the ability to do endless laps on a test track the car and his driving suffered. Take that on to Red Bull and more than just the engine was at play there. That car was a mess last year chassis wise. The put pressure on Newey to become more active and fix things up. Dieter claims he never had any intention of pulling out of F1, so that was a leverage ploy.
 
Newer is not necessarily better but within the limits set by the governing bodies you have to be able to extract the most out of every element. That requires an enormous amount of sophistication and micro managing is never ever going to get it done successfully.

 

[oqvist]

  F1 was due for a cleansing, we need more bone-headed youths in the sport to make starts exciting again. I miss ole Takuma Sato and his antics.

Ah yes Sato the old days Maldonado. We need Maldo back!

 

[WraithApe]

  Ah yes Sato the old days Maldonado. We need Maldo back!

 
Exactly. Sato was very much like Maldonado. You could hardly call either great drivers - both hoons really - but they were top entertainment value!

 

[gr8soundz]

He might be too old for F1 now but JPM is still one of my favorite drivers. I say put him back in a Williams seat!
 

 

[MuZo2]

  Ah yes Sato the old days Maldonado. We need Maldo back!

You want F1 to be Wipeout game show