[VoLTaG3]

I've found a very interesting thing someone posted about EQ's.

"As an artist myself I couldn't disagree more with this statement of yours. I really appreciate all your reviews, also this one here (well done as always!), but I wonder if you really know that much about music-production, mixing technology and "mastering" as you obviously pretend to. However, most "artists" know NOTHING about mastering and/or anything about "real" sound quality. Of course there may be some artists (like me btw) who do everything on their own throughout the musical production-chain (creating the music & mastering) but this is a BIG minority in the music industry. And skilled audio engineers will always mix a neutral "flat" sound because they MUST include post-processing (like EQ's) by the consumer etc. Therefore: Responsive/decent EQ's (most DAP-EQ's aren't) are NOT there to compensate bad sounding players/headphones/environments, but to customize the sound for every single pair of ears - simple as that. "Flat" music is just like food without or just very little spice - and as we all know everybody has a different tounge/taste - that's what salt/pepper/spice is for - to customize flavor. And skilled audio engineers always consider this when mastering music - at least they should!

"

SOURCE

I agree with that guy too...

 

[s1rrah]

Quote:

Originally Posted by VoLTaG3 /img/forum/go_quote.gif I've found a very interesting thing someone posted about EQ's. "As an artist myself I couldn't disagree more with this statement of yours. I really appreciate all your reviews, also this one here (well done as always!), but I wonder if you really know that much about music-production, mixing technology and "mastering" as you obviously pretend to. However, most "artists" know NOTHING about mastering and/or anything about "real" sound quality. Of course there may be some artists (like me btw) who do everything on their own throughout the musical production-chain (creating the music & mastering) but this is a BIG minority in the music industry. And skilled audio engineers will always mix a neutral "flat" sound because they MUST include post-processing (like EQ's) by the consumer etc. Therefore: Responsive/decent EQ's (most DAP-EQ's aren't) are NOT there to compensate bad sounding players/headphones/environments, but to customize the sound for every single pair of ears - simple as that. "Flat" music is just like food without or just very little spice - and as we all know everybody has a different tounge/taste - that's what salt/pepper/spice is for - to customize flavor. And skilled audio engineers always consider this when mastering music - at least they should! " SOURCE I agree with that guy too...

Me too.

What he is saying is absolutely correct.

I too have worked in audio mastering and studio recording for many years and any professional mastering house adheres to that exact rule of general neutrality.

Which is also why a lot of folks find pro studio monitors to be lean on bass and essentially very flat sounding as opposed to having any sort of sonic "personality" ... my old yamaha studio monitors were great examples of such flat sounding gear ... they were fantastic as mastering tools but really sucked when I tried them for home entertainment, general music listening, etc.

 

[forsberg]

I agree. I'm not an EQ guy myself because I know I'll just spend all my time playing around with the settings.

But if someone likes to crank up their bass +10db and enjoy their beats, who is anyone to say they are wrong? Those who impose their beliefs onto others are the ones who are really self-centered.

And that also goes for other topics here on head-fi, such as the non-stop bashing of skullcandies or listening to mainstream pop music. As long as people enjoy what they do, it's all good.

 

[what?]

no sure i agree,
its like saying all restaurants should provide tasteless (flat) food, so peeps can add salt and pepper to taste.
they dont, the food should taste amazing when it arrives at your table.

imo, a well recorded piece of music should already have interesting 'spice/flavor', that way i dont have to reach for an eq to make it sound appealing.

badly recorded music may require a fix with an eq.

but well recorded music will not.

imo.

 

[jvgig]

I agree with What?

The comparison to restaurants is interesting. Personally, I find that at less expensive restaurants there is usually an assortment of spices and sauces at the table to "customize" your food with. However, if you go to an expensive restaurant with an accomplished cooking staff, you will find very little if any options at the table as it is expected that you want to taste what they prepared for you, untouched. It is almost an insult to the chef to ask for extra sauce or something to put on the food.

I would think that the same expectations would occur in the recording business as well.

 

[Nocturnal310]

Quote:

Originally Posted by what? /img/forum/go_quote.gif no sure i agree, its like saying all restaurants should provide tasteless (flat) food, so peeps can add salt and pepper to taste. they dont, the food should taste amazing when it arrives at your table. imo, a well recorded piece of music should already have interesting 'spice/flavor', that way i dont have to reach for an eq to make it sound appealing. badly recorded music may require a fix with an eq. but well recorded music will not. imo.

i agree more with u.

good mastered record doesnt need EQing.

 

[Calexico]

It depends on if you want to experience the music as it was recorded, or as it was intended to be heard. If there are many producers or whatever that leave it flat but don't think that's how it should be heard, it's most true to how it was recorded, but not necessarily what the artist wants.

 

[s1rrah]

I think the OP's point (and the point of the quoted bit) is to say that most professionally mastered recordings are done with the fact that the vast majority of listeners are going to EQ their music in some way ... be it a multi band option or just adjusting the bass and treble on their car stereo (with, most likely, not too much consideration to the audiophile crowd unless it's produced by B&W or Chesky and the like)

And again ... that is a true thing ...

Mastering houses do treat neutrality and general flatness as near religion.

Visit your local pro recording studio and talk to some of the engineers ... generally, most pro engineers will love talking about their gear and work so it's a real suggestion.

The EQ argument ... that's another thing altogether ... though depending on what headphones I use ... I'll generally apply a bit of EQ here and there.

 

[ClieOS]

Food are not particularly good analogue to music production. A person accustom to spicy Indian food will find the spiciest Western food to be mild. That is why people go to the restaurants they like - they are essentially 'EQing' / choosing where to eat because not all chefs cook the same recipe exactly the same ways (another EQing there). No matter how great a chef may be, you will always find someone disagree with his/her food because of personal taste- same goes to mastering.

I would like to point out that many audiophiles avoid EQ not simply because of taste. Many digital EQ implemented badly in DAP/source which add distortion to the music (and that can be revealed using good headphones/gears). Assuming nothing else matters, the choice b/w a neutral flat sound and a distorted EQ'ed sound is easy to make for many people in such case.

 

[That dude]

I think that there are just too many variables to this issue. I mean, not every album is mixed/mastered by the same person, different chefs may cook the same dish in a different way. Also, not everyone knows how to EQ properly ( I know some people who adjust their EQ sliders to make sine curves, v-shapes or what ever they feel like drawing out that day) and equalizers differ in quality as well. Moreover, I feel extreme EQ-ing makes the music sound unnatural, but maybe that's just me...

I don't really like the EQ on my ipod or computer so I don't use them. I tune the sound to my liking by changing the equipment I use. For example if I want to increase treble energy, I switch to a silver interconnect (I don't want to start a cable discussion here). So I think there's no answer to "should I use EQ or not?". I think if anyone is in doubt, they should just try it out, it's not like it's going to cost them anything. Right?

 

[Spyro]

There's no right or wrong with regards to EQ. It's a personal preference thing.

As we know, most of todays recordings are recorded much to "hot". My understanding is that this is done mainly for two reasons. One, to boost the dynamic range when listening with cheap headphones/earbuds and two, for radio play purposes. A "hot" recording comes through as louder and is suppose to grab the listener's attention moreso than a flatter response. This 2nd reason can often be a point of conflict between the mastering engineer and the production engineer where one wants a masterful recording and the other wants to sell cd's. But neither of these reasons have anything to do with an "audiophiles" desire to EQ or not EQ and to what extent.

 

[i_don't_know]

Quote:

Originally Posted by what? /img/forum/go_quote.gif no sure i agree, its like saying all restaurants should provide tasteless (flat) food, so peeps can add salt and pepper to taste. they dont, the food should taste amazing when it arrives at your table. imo, a well recorded piece of music should already have interesting 'spice/flavor', that way i dont have to reach for an eq to make it sound appealing. badly recorded music may require a fix with an eq. but well recorded music will not. imo.

You're forgetting that since the vinyl era, barely anyone actually masters the CDs as well as everyone would like.

CD mastering could use some work, from a general standpoint.

 

[mvw2]

I see EQing as a tool to "fix" hardware as well as adapt to your own flavor as desired.

Basically when you look at hardware (earphones, home audio drivers, car audio, etc.) sound engineers shoot for a particular sound signature. They create their own desired flavor with the device. Hopping to car audio for a second, it's why all Infinity are very bright, all Pioneer warm and bassy, and all Boston Acoustic are relatively neutral natural (relative scales, not exact, and broad generalization). I haven't listened to enough head-fi brands/models to give equivalent comparisons, but I'm sure you folks would agree that a brand tends to have common sound signatures.

Ideally, you buy hardware that starts out closest to your own tastes. You get as close as possible to your own ideal first, so you don't have to fight it so much to get to a likable state. Once you're close by hardware choice, you want to get it dead on. I see EQ as this tool.

When the hardware's dead on, you've given yourself a good base to start with, a reference point for all listening material.

After that, you can EQ as desired to tailor to any particular music. Again, we're fighting against other people's personal preferences to get to our own. Again, EQing does this.

My personal approach cuts out this last part though. I don't EQ to specific music. I just EQ the hardware to a reference state (ear "flat" for me) and then listen to the music as the artist and sound engineers geared it to. Sometimes you suffer because of poor mixing. Sometimes you are rewarded with musical bliss. Yet, I (personally) see this as the "ideal" listening experience, basically unbiased hardware, biased music. I just consider the musical bias to be the intended spice. Why try to make Italian taste like Asian. If the chef was making Italian, you should taste Italian. I don't see the point in fighting that. The best I can do is start with a cleansed, neutral pallet.

mmm...food.

 

[what?]

Quote:

Originally Posted by what? /img/forum/go_quote.gif badly recorded music may require a fix with an eq. but well recorded music will not. imo.

Quote:

Originally Posted by i_don't_know /img/forum/go_quote.gif You're forgetting that since the vinyl era, barely anyone actually masters the CDs as well as everyone would like. CD mastering could use some work, from a general standpoint.

no i ddnt.

 

[i_don't_know]

Quote:

Originally Posted by what? /img/forum/go_quote.gif no i ddnt.

Sorry, bad wording on my part.

Let's see if I can get it right this time...

You're not taking into consideration that because of the lack of "good recording" nowadays, EQ may actually be needed in most cases.


If that wasn't right, I quit. I overslept today.