[Lx3A]

Excellent, thanks for the quick reply. I was hoping this would be the answer, although tinged with slight disappointment because the black and white cables look a lot cooler.

They look cooler, but trust me they are not what you want! Kind of like an old 70s vacuum cleaner cord or old house wiring.

 

[samandhi]

Well, I’ve spent hours listening to the Elegia since this post, and it’s fair to say that my views have changed significantly.

You know how when you’re not a very good cook, you like to dump a ton of salt in your food because salt overpowers flavour and people tend to like salt?
You know how someone who is eating fine dining but doesn’t have a refined palate will slather their food in ketchup?
You know how someone who doesn’t know much about Scotch will throw in an ice cube, which tends to deaden the taste and remove the subtleties?

That’s how I now feel about EQ. Or at least how I was using it above.

I had no familiarity with EQ and my early impressions with the Elegia were weird, so I threw on EQ because bass is good and treble is good! But that’s basically the old Beats mentality. V-shapes can be fun, but they’re not always a good thing.

Well, I’ve gone back to listening to my Elegia without EQ and I think they sound…..excellent?

It sounds like you have acquired some "critical listening" skills. Good for you, but bad for your wallet because in the future you (your ears) will be pickier as to what headphones you might choose going forwards. You might not even recognize it at first and can't figure out why you can't seem to find a set that sounds good to your ears among the lower price brackets (except those that punch in at higher than their price would indicate). I was definitely in your shoes many years ago until I bought my first set of "high-end" headphones. Then I had to get rid of all my Bose and Beats, and the like (well I kept a couple just for beaters).

Keep in mind though, that you don't HAVE to spend a ton of money to get the "high-end" sound, you just need to find those "gems". This is one of the reasons I like Hifiman headphones. Most of their line benefit from "trickle down" technology so even their cheapest offerings are really good. You can spend $100-$300 and get MOST of what you get from something like the Arya (you really DO pay for that last little bit of refinement IMO).

Something else I noticed is that the Elegias have a sort of impact to their individual notes. Is this what reviewers refer to as “punch and slam”? Because I get a sort of snap to notes. It’s not extreme, but it’s definitely there in a way that it isn’t with my other headphones. It’s not that things are punching you in the face. Rather, it’s a sort of snappiness to the music, as though the driver excursion creates a sort of quick percussive sound. I think “slam” isn’t quite the right word for what I’m describing. It feels more like “snap”, like a rubber band snapping. Anyways, it’s nothing extreme, but I enjoy it.

Partially yes. Usually punch and slam are referring to the bass (the texture and decay rate or speed of the bass), but it can also affect the rest of the spectrum as well. I think what you are hearing is where the "high end" nature of the tech is coming in (comparatively speaking). The separation, and lack of resonance in a closed back, and overall dynamics (which Focal is very well known for). They all combine to give this effect. Something like this might be one of the few discerning differences between something high-end and something considered budget. It is just one more of those (sometimes) subtle things that make a set "audiophile" or not. And most times something like this is what causes people to pay the large amounts of money to get a set where the other they turned down might have cost much less.

A lot of newer audiophiles sometimes mistake tuning for technicalities. Most times it is the combination of tuning and technicalities that is the goal. You can have two sets that are tuned exactly the same(ish) but if the technicalities aren't there (like speed of decay, separation, imaging, etc...) and if your ears are discerning enough it might sound "day and night" to you. In actuality it can be pretty subtle unless you have learned how to listen for it (or the lack of it).

I have a set of CCA CRA+ that sound just as good as my $900 iBasso IT07 where tuning is concerned, but the total lack of refinement (technicalities) on the CRA+ is a huge night and day difference to me. For others that don't notice such things, they will wonder why the heck I spent $900 on an IEM that sounds much the same to them as the $20 CRA+ (for instance). Just an example of what it sounds like you are discovering. Though it surprises me a bit, because the HD600 are some fantastic performers, and there is a reason they are STILL in production and still regarded as one of the best "audiophile" sets in history.

I am glad you stuck with it and didn't just sell them off because the subtleties really make these headphones shine (to my ears) and are more than worth the current asking price. I would have bought them at regular price (and been happy) if I had known about them a while back. Though, I would have been mad to see, years later, everyone getting to enjoy them at a MUCH lower price than I paid for them. Much like the Sennheiser HD700.

I bought those when they were first out (then $1000), and I got what I thought was a great deal at that time ($750). Don't get me wrong, to me they are still worth it, but many years later you could get them for as little as $300 new.. It sort of ticked me off that Sennheiser "devalued" them so badly before they discontinued them. Now, Focal hasn't really done that with these, but you get what I mean?!

 

[samandhi]

Hi, forgive me if this has been covered before but I've just started reading through this 282 page thread today after taking delivery of my my Elegias, and what I am going to ask quite probably wont even be discussed anywhere in those 282 pages!!
I got them on Amazon for £399 as they are shop demo from a hifi retailer (they currently seem to be retailing with all the main UK dealers for between £429 to £499). They look brand spanking new and sound absolutely amazing, possibly because being ex demo they have loosened up/burned in etc. The one thing I have noticed though is that the stock Focal cable is plain black, and all the review pictures from back in 2018 show a sort of black and white striped cable. Anybody know if the cable changed at some point during the years the Elegias were produced?

Thanks

Yes, they replaced the stock cable quietly and without any fanfare. I think SO many people complained about the quality of the B&W cable (microphonics, and the connector breaking after only a few days use), that they decided to replace it with (I am guessing) the Celestee cable, or something similar.

While the B&W cable did look really nice, it was total trash (from everything that I have read). Everyone from reviewers to a ton of people on this thread have all mentioned that as a huge negative for this set.

 

[gryffe]

They look cooler, but trust me they are not what you want! Kind of like an old 70s vacuum cleaner cord or old house wiring.

Aah right, good to know and you obviously speak from experience. The current cable is certainly very pliable and does the job very well. Now I have a vision in my mind that the old cable is as stiff and awkward as the cable of an electric iron - as bad as that??

Edit - and perhaps as stiff and awkward as the more expensive Audioquest USB cables like Carbon and Coffee, cables like Cinnamon and Forest are far more pliable.

 

[Lx3A]

Aah right, good to know and you obviously speak from experience. The current cable is certainly very pliable and does the job very well. Now I have a vision in my mind that the old cable is as stiff and awkward as the cable of an electric iron - as bad as that??

Edit - and perhaps as stiff and awkward as the more expensive Audioquest USB cables like Carbon and Coffee, cables like Cinnamon and Forest are far more pliable.

I’d put it this way - if the b&w cable was permanently attached I would still happily listen to these headphones. But it is the worst cable I have used. Mine had a loose connector after a few months and I was careful with them. Have had no issues with the solid black cable.

 

[samandhi]

I’d put it this way - if the b&w cable was permanently attached I would still happily listen to these headphones. But it is the worst cable I have used. Mine had a loose connector after a few months and I was careful with them. Have had no issues with the solid black cable.

I've had no issues with the black cable either. I can't speak to the B&W cable though, other than all the horror stories I have read about it on here and (almost) all the reviews I have read about the headphones.

Either way, I think that the black one is still too stiff for my liking but is livable if it were perma-attached.

 

[gryffe]

I've had no issues with the black cable either. I can't speak to the B&W cable though, other than all the horror stories I have read about it on here and (almost) all the reviews I have read about the headphones.

Either way, I think that the black one is still too stiff for my liking but is livable if it were perma-attached.

I must admit I like the fact that headphones come with detachable cables. I'm probably opening a can of worms here but it's good to have the option of buying an upgrade cable, although I suppose some people will think there isn't a lot of value in this. I had a pair of Sennheiser HD800S and I swapped out the stock cable for a cable from Atlas. Wouldn't say the difference was night and day but it was better. I guess it all comes down to trusting the maker of the headphones, and if you think they would or wouldn't skimp on the quality of the stock cable.
So far I'm happy with the sound and the flexibility of the cable though.

 

[samandhi]

I must admit I like the fact that headphones come with detachable cables. I'm probably opening a can of worms here but it's good to have the option of buying an upgrade cable, although I suppose some people will think there isn't a lot of value in this. I had a pair of Sennheiser HD800S and I swapped out the stock cable for a cable from Atlas. Wouldn't say the difference was night and day but it was better. I guess it all comes down to trusting the maker of the headphones, and if you think they would or wouldn't skimp on the quality of the stock cable.
So far I'm happy with the sound and the flexibility of the cable though.

Not opening up a can of worms at all. If you read back through this thread that is probably the first and most recommended upgrade to these phones. Firstly because of the crap b&w cable. Also, because it comes with a 3.5mm SE connector, and a 4.4mm or 2.5mm balanced cable will (almost) always fare better in the sound department than SE.

Having said that, I replaced mine with a Hart Audio Modular Cable

 

[MarkF786]

The current cable is awful too, both on the Elegia and the Utopia 2022. It’s mind blowing that they’re unable to design or commission a good cable, especially at the price of the Utopia 2022 ($5,000).

In comparison, I LOVE the cables that Beherdynamic provides with their high-end headphones (Amiron, T5, T1 - all which work with the Elegia, Elear, Clear, etc, BTW) and that Sennheiser provides with the HD-800S. Heck, I even prefer the Sennheiser HD6XX series of headphones‘ cables over what Focal provides.

 

[oldkid]

The current cable is awful too, both on the Elegia and the Utopia 2022. It’s mind blowing that they’re unable to design or commission a good cable, especially at the price of the Utopia 2022 ($5,000).

In comparison, I LOVE the cables that Beherdynamic provides with their high-end headphones (Amiron, T5, T1 - all which work with the Elegia, Elear, Clear, etc, BTW) and that Sennheiser provides with the HD-800S. Heck, I even prefer the Sennheiser HD6XX series of headphones‘ cables over what Focal provides.

The XLR balanced cable that came with the Elex is quite good. I just use it with the Elegia when I want to give it a listen too

 

[gryffe]

Not opening up a can of worms at all. If you read back through this thread that is probably the first and most recommended upgrade to these phones. Firstly because of the crap b&w cable. Also, because it comes with a 3.5mm SE connector, and a 4.4mm or 2.5mm balanced cable will (almost) always fare better in the sound department than SE.

Having said that, I replaced mine with a Hart Audio Modular Cable

Had a look at that link, looks quite a good selection, pity it's in US and I'm UK though. I did see a UK cable maker on Etsy who provides this one
tinyurl.com/2p84rebm
He just generalises the cable as being suitable for Focal, whereas other cable makers online seem to provide a few Focal names - eg Clear, Utopia etc. Do we know if the socket in the cups of all Focal headphones aare the same - eg one size fits all?

Thanks

 

[samandhi]

Had a look at that link, looks quite a good selection, pity it's in US and I'm UK though. I did see a UK cable maker on Etsy who provides this one
tinyurl.com/2p84rebm
He just generalises the cable as being suitable for Focal, whereas other cable makers online seem to provide a few Focal names - eg Clear, Utopia etc. Do we know if the socket in the cups of all Focal headphones aare the same - eg one size fits all?

Thanks

I can't be sure, but I think that they all have a standard 3.5mm dual socket in them, which might be why the person generalizes them as good for Focals. I would bet they would also fit most Hifiman, and others as well.

 

[Heyyoudvd]

It sounds like you have acquired some "critical listening" skills. Good for you, but bad for your wallet because in the future you (your ears) will be pickier as to what headphones you might choose going forwards. You might not even recognize it at first and can't figure out why you can't seem to find a set that sounds good to your ears among the lower price brackets (except those that punch in at higher than their price would indicate). I was definitely in your shoes many years ago until I bought my first set of "high-end" headphones. Then I had to get rid of all my Bose and Beats, and the like (well I kept a couple just for beaters).

Keep in mind though, that you don't HAVE to spend a ton of money to get the "high-end" sound, you just need to find those "gems". This is one of the reasons I like Hifiman headphones. Most of their line benefit from "trickle down" technology so even their cheapest offerings are really good. You can spend $100-$300 and get MOST of what you get from something like the Arya (you really DO pay for that last little bit of refinement IMO).

I wouldn’t quite put it that way. Keep in mind I’m not an audio newbie. I’ve enjoyed high fidelity sound since my first pair of SR60s over 20 years ago. So I wouldn’t call myself an audiophile, in the sense that I’m still not the kind of person who can listen to something and easily analyze its frequency response. But I do enjoy high quality audio and have for many years. I listen attentively and analyze sound and my thoughts towards it, even if I don’t quite have that vocabulary to point to upper mids vs lower treble or treble spikes vs sibilance or attack and decay or anything of that nature.

Basically, I’m like a scotch drinker who has been enjoying scotch for many years and has an understanding and recognition of good scotch vs bad scotch, but I don’t quite have the vocabulary and recognition to say “This tastes like it was aged in an oak cask and that is from a sherry cask with a finish of toffee and dried apricots”. Hopefully that makes sense.

The reason I say all of that is to say that my view on the Elegia doesn’t come from the Beats/Bose/Raycon type mindset. I know good audio. My apprehension towards the Elegia came from the fact that it has an FR I’m not used to. Because it’s mid-forward and also has a dip in the upper bass, it creates this odd tonality that I’m not used to, so when I first started listening, that’s all I could really pay attention to, ignoring all the other qualities of the sound.

But after some time with the headphone, my brain has gotten used to that sound (plus it has allowed for time to burn-in, which has allowed me to listen to everything else the headphones do. And I’m very impressed.

It’s a similar thing that a lot of people have noticed with the 6XX. Because they’re so warm, that warmth of the sound tends to initially almost come across as a veil or a wall of sound to the listener, giving you the impression that they’re not a technically capable headphone. But as you listen further, they’re actually extremely capable by mid-fi standards. The 6XX are quite detailed, but you don’t notice initially because your brain is focused on the unusual sound signature.

I think it’s the same thing with the Elegia, but to an even greater degree. They have even more of a wall blocking you, but then even more technical capability lying below that wall, if that makes sense. So my point before was that because I hit that ‘wall’, I decided to EQ and turn the headphone into a huge v-shape, thinking I was tearing down that wall. But in the end, it was only like dumping salt on your food. Pleasant at first, but it causes you to miss out on the depth and nuance.

That’s my perception, at least.

Partially yes. Usually punch and slam are referring to the bass (the texture and decay rate or speed of the bass), but it can also affect the rest of the spectrum as well. I think what you are hearing is where the "high end" nature of the tech is coming in (comparatively speaking). The separation, and lack of resonance in a closed back, and overall dynamics (which Focal is very well known for). They all combine to give this effect. Something like this might be one of the few discerning differences between something high-end and something considered budget. It is just one more of those (sometimes) subtle things that make a set "audiophile" or not. And most times something like this is what causes people to pay the large amounts of money to get a set where the other they turned down might have cost much less.

A lot of newer audiophiles sometimes mistake tuning for technicalities. Most times it is the combination of tuning and technicalities that is the goal. You can have two sets that are tuned exactly the same(ish) but if the technicalities aren't there (like speed of decay, separation, imaging, etc...) and if your ears are discerning enough it might sound "day and night" to you. In actuality it can be pretty subtle unless you have learned how to listen for it (or the lack of it).

This is something I’m beginning to suspect. I’ve been doing a lot of A/B testing against my two most technically capable headphones - the 6XX and the K702 - and it has been interesting:

In terms of how I typically think about clarity or transparency, it goes (K702 > 6XX > Elegia), however there’s just this added richness and sense of realism I’m hearing in the Elegia that goes even beyond the other two. So I’m wondering if that’s the boundary between mid-fi and truly hi-fi, where the Elegia is sort of on that border. When I listen for detail and textures and nuances and things of that nature, the Elegia are on par, or perhaps even slightly ahead of the 6XX, but then the K702 is ahead of the Elegia in that regard. But then if I close my eyes and try to paint a sort of mental picture of the music to see which has a greater sense of realism, then the Elegia pull ahead of even the K702. So I’m not quite sure which I’d characterize as more detailed. The K702 seem to provide more information, while the Elegia give that information more presence and physicality.

 

[samandhi]

Hopefully that makes sense.

It does, and apologies if I offended. I didn't mean to, if so.

This is something I’m beginning to suspect. I’ve been doing a lot of A/B testing against my two most technically capable headphones - the 6XX and the K702 - and it has been interesting:

In terms of how I typically think about clarity or transparency, it goes (K702 > 6XX > Elegia), however there’s just this added richness and sense of realism I’m hearing in the Elegia that goes even beyond the other two. So I’m wondering if that’s the boundary between mid-fi and truly hi-fi, where the Elegia is sort of on that border. When I listen for detail and textures and nuances and things of that nature, the Elegia are on par, or perhaps even slightly ahead of the 6XX, but then the K702 is ahead of the Elegia in that regard. But then if I close my eyes and try to paint a sort of mental picture of the music to see which has a greater sense of realism, then the Elegia pull ahead of even the K702. So I’m not quite sure which I’d characterize as more detailed. The K702 seem to provide more information, while the Elegia give that information more presence and physicality.

There are a lot of people that confuse clarity with boosted or well tuned treble. You can still have a natural tone (less treble peaks or more recessed treble) but still be superior in clarity overall. Having a fairly linear tuning helps this a lot. With more treble or treble peaks you might hear more macro details, but a good set of cans can be more revealing overall with or without those tricks. Now I'm not saying that the Elegia are that detail monster, but they are a good resolving set IMO.

Short of their shortcomings (and let's face it all high end head gear has some), I would call these truly HiFi, not mid-fi. Though I suppose a label doesn't really matter as long as you enjoy your investment.

 

[peterinvan]

They look cooler, but trust me they are not what you want! Kind of like an old 70s vacuum cleaner cord or old house wiring.

MEZE Cables
I have the original heavy grey cable. It is still in the box
I have enjoyed the flexible and good quality balanced Meze cables with my Elegias.