[Whitigir]

The costs are not really an argument for me...

Ok, this sound totally wrong..... I agree!


The point here is that a great headphone will enjoy your life for at least 20years!


If you just divide and compare to any annual cost you spend in your daily life - it’s still cheap compared to to fun your got!

I have a hard time keeping things for more than a few years old...lol. the word is "boring"

 

[Stillhart]

   
which event ?  was the WooAudio WA8 there also ? paired with the Utopia ? 

 
Yep, they had the WA5, WA22, WA7, WA8 and WES all there and setup for demo.  .

 

[raypin]

mmm......well? Spit it out, chap!  Spit it out! WA8 + Utopia  _________________________.

 

[Stillhart]

  mmm......well? Spit it out, chap!  Spit it out! WA8 + Utopia  _________________________.

 
I didn't listen to that setup myself.  I listened to it on the Tungsten, Gold, Questyle gold stack, CMA600i and HAD430 (yesterday specifically...I heard it on more gear too when I was writing the review.)  For me, I think the Utopia is so clean that is needs a super clean amp.  That means either a good SS or a REALLY good tube amp like the Tungsten or WA5.  I plan on putting some time into the WA5 pairing the next time I'm down at The Source.
 
The Elear paired pretty well with the tube amps, just like a HD650.  In fact, I saw someone buy a WA8 and Elear while I was there yesterday.

 

[TSAVJason]

80 public none trade attendees. 21 trade. Based on the 80 we can assert that 27% loved the cans enough to make the purchase. This is a very high number when you consider that there were many people talking making it difficult to really give them a serious listen. We tried our best to remove the conversations from the listening area and for the most part this request was respected. Still I think I'd wait to hear opinions from those that made the purchase. Many told me they felt the sound stage was superior to the 800/S and that the bass was not more but better than HE1000. Those that bought product said that the reviewers had done a great job in helping them make the choice and that those reviewers were very accurate. There were 2 people that came to me and said there wasn't enough improvement over other cans to make the purchase. There are 13 people on our list that have made appointments to come back and do further auditions without the crowd before they make the purchase because they were pretty sure but wanted to be completely sure.

 

[shiorisekine]

mmm......well? Spit it out, chap!  Spit it out! WA8 + Utopia  _________________________.

This was actually a very pleasing experience, it added some warmth to the Utopia but not an overbearing amount to change the sounds to something I wouldnt like. To me the WA8 just added a bit more bottom end that i like without removing the details.

 

[bmichels]

This was actually a very pleasing experience, it added some warmth to the Utopia but not an overbearing amount to change the sounds to something I wouldnt like. To me the WA8 just added a bit more bottom end that i like without removing the details.

Great. WA8 really Is a winner.

It just need Optical-in and a bigger battery to be perfect !

 

[cladane]

lol, no headphone's bill of materials is ever going to even get in the ball park of $1000.  It's almost all R&D cost.  THink about it, they had a team of probably several engineers working on this for a couple of years.  All those guys likely making ~$150K US for a French 35 hour work week.  

Indeed, the R&D isn't cheap. Focal worked on the project for 4 years. One engineer can be paid monthly 3000€ so 36000€ a year which considering taxes in France are a 72000€ cost for the employer. Four years=288000€ one engineer.
Put three guys on the project and you reach 864000€.
Considering they needed tools and raw materials for four years and we are speaking of expensive commodities let's add some 320000€.
A completely new production line in Saint Etienne FR has been opened for Elear and Utopia headphones manufacturing for a mere 150000€ ?
Advertisement, demo models, .... And the investment around Focal new headphones amounts for 1500000€.
Could it be ??

 

[TSAVJason]

Indeed, the R&D isn't cheap. Focal worked on the project for 4 years. One engineer can be paid monthly 3000€ so 36000€ a year which considering taxes in France are a 72000€ cost for the employer. Four years=288000€ one engineer.
Put three guys on the project and you reach 864000€.
Considering they needed tools and raw materials for four years and we are speaking of expensive commodities let's add some 320000€.
A completely new production line in Saint Etienne FR has been opened for Elear and Utopia headphones manufacturing for a mere 150000€ ?
Advertisement, demo models, .... And the investment around Focal new headphones amounts for 1500000€.
Could it be ??

That is a perfect way to explain what many consumers don't really understand. It's true if you were to have all the parts made by someone else and you are buying parts off the shelf like many companies do, you could estimate they are a high profit product. But that would be "existing innovation". When everything is built from scratch including tooling & engineering costs there is really no such thing as "cheap build per unit" on products that meet this benchmark.

 

[chowmein83]

Hey, I may not understand some of the descriptions you used, but I'd like to thank you for adding your comparison impressions! They seemed quite thoughtful.

Do you think you could elaborate on your thoughts of why you felt the HD800S had both exaggerated mids, but is drier and less lively than the HE-1k and Utopia? Lively to me usually means more mids energy, but so does exaggeration, leaving me not quite sure how these are stacking against eachother to your ears.

 
Yeah, now that I'm reading over my impressions again I can see why they can be confusing.
 
Ok, let me try again then:
 
I felt the HD800S had too much energy in its mids, which is part of the reason why I think it sounds dry. I think I might have said that it sounds "less lively" because too much energy in the mids and treble leads to not being able to hear certain things so clearly, and for me, not being able to be as involved in the music.
 
I gave the example of the cymbal crash earlier. (Though this is more treble related, you can imagine similar things with mids like with vocals.) With the HD800S, the crash is loud but doesn't have too much finesse in comparison because there's too much energy. With the HE1K and the Utopia, the crash is still very present, but it doesn't linger too long and you can actually hear the cymbal slowly fade away.  I guess it's being able to hear subtle things like these that really makes music come alive to me.
 
I read your other posts, and don't worry - the HD800(S) is still a great headphone. To be honest, I walked in prepared to be underwhelmed by the Utopia, because of that high $4K price tag and because I greatly admire what Sennheiser has done with the HD800. However, overall I simply found myself preferring the Utopia - IMO with its performance, it is able to show some of the HD800S' weaknesses.

 

[Me x3]

Focal can charge whatever they want for their products.
Trying to find out what is the real cost of the product itself or trying to calculate the cost of the development is pretty senseless to me.
Prices depends strongly on how much people are willing to pay. Lately, there's a good amount of people willing to pay 3000-4000usd for a headphone and then Focal (Audeze/Hifiman/.....) will charge that kind of money because they can and people will happily buy. In other context (say 1995) a similar development would probably yield a smaller price tag and the company would have to sell more to make a similar profit. For that very same reason Focal is not asking 12.000usd for the Utopia headphone. There's little people willing to pay 12k on a headphone today. In a few years, we'll see...
The product is intended for those willing to pay.
 
If you are not one of those, you can get a similarly good headphone like the AKG K702 or K712 (neutralish, very low distortion, great soundstage and imaging, comfortable) for less than 300usd. You might like them even better depending on your preferences, recordings and listening levels.

 

[fjrabon]

Looks like I'm on the Elear train. Warren sold me on them.

 

[chowmein83]

  For me, I think the Utopia is so clean that is needs a super clean amp.  That means either a good SS or a REALLY good tube amp like the Tungsten or WA5.  I plan on putting some time into the WA5 pairing the next time I'm down at The Source.

 
I pretty much agree with this. Hence why I was mostly listening to it on the Questyle stack and with the Liquid Gold while I was there. (Plus, those setups seemed to be very slightly less crowded...

)

 

[Audio Addict]

80 public none trade attendees. 21 trade. Based on the 80 we can assert that 27% loved the cans enough to make the purchase. This is a very high number when you consider that there were many people talking making it difficult to really give them a serious listen. We tried our best to remove the conversations from the listening area and for the most part this request was respected. Still I think I'd wait to hear opinions from those that made the purchase. Many told me they felt the sound stage was superior to the 800/S and that the bass was not more but better than HE1000. Those that bought product said that the reviewers had done a great job in helping them make the choice and that those reviewers were very accurate. There were 2 people that came to me and said there wasn't enough improvement over other cans to make the purchase. There are 13 people on our list that have made appointments to come back and do further auditions without the crowd before they make the purchase because they were pretty sure but wanted to be completely sure.

Thanks Jason. I was actually wondering about those same numbers. The only question would be how many were Utopias versus Elears?

 

[TSAVJason]

Thanks Jason. I was actually wondering about those same numbers. The only question would be how many were Utopias versus Elears?

My guess is likely 60% Elear and 40% Utopia although it might be 70/30 respectively. I'll know better tomorrow and being there are 13 planning on returning to make their final decisions this next week, we'll have a finally tally from the launch itself from in store sales. 8-9 of that 13 perspective additions are more interested in the Utopia. I respect that they take their time and choose wisely.