Focal Celestee (New Closed-Back Headphone)
Mar 12, 2021 at 10:35 AM Post #316 of 634
So which closed headphone does have noticeable better soundstaging than the celestee. (No semi closed ones). Is the stellia much better in that aspect?

Schwibbles. How does A2C and Celestee compare in terms of headstage and imaging?

I am going to compare the Celestee to the Aeon 2 Closed w/ Noire pads (and white felt filters) since that's what's on the headphone now and one of the standard pads ripped slightly when taking it off. I am also going to include a few mentions to the Hifiman Sundara since I have compared the Celestee to that in a few previous posts.
Note: The white felt filters in the Aeon make the soundstage size sound slightly smaller than without them, but the difference is very minor. I felt like I should mention I am using them for context.

I realized I had a 1/4" to 4-pin XLR (SE to Balanced) adapter to use with the Aeon so the comparison should be fair now. Both headphones can be powered from SE output.
Test setup A2C vs Celestee: Lenovo Work Laptop -> Lenovo Thunderbolt Dock -> Soncoz LA-QXD1 (USB) -> Schiit Jotunheim 2 (balanced input) -> SE output to headphone

TL;DR: Both sound like they're closed back headphones, so neither is winning any awards in the soundstage or imaging departments, BUT the A2C Noire wins in both categories.

Celestee:
Soundstage and Separation:

Very in-your-head sound, to the point where I could mistake it for an IEM if it weren't for the physical feeling of the headphone on my head. Soundstage width goes to (about) where my ears attach to my head. Soundstage depth is practically non-existent. Even on some binaural tracks, vocals are produced in the center of my head, directly between my ears. I don't get a sense of the vocalist(s) being in front of me, but this is something most headphones kinda struggle with.
As someone who regularly listens to IEMs and prefers a more intimate sound from headphones (Utopia, HD600, etc), I am not too bothered by the small soundstage, but I can see how some people might consider this a deal-breaker. For example, the thought of getting used to the sound of something like an HD800S and then trying the Celestee makes me feel queasy.
Thankfully, instrument separation is very good/great for a closed-back headphone. I think this saves the Celestee from sounding too claustrophobic and closed in. Even though the space is small, each instrument (somehow) has enough room to come through clearly. Sometimes lower-frequency instruments like bass guitars can sound somewhat masked (for example, in some poorly mastered rock tracks) but I attribute this more to the frequency response than technical capability.

Imaging:
I have touched on this before (post #245 in this thread) and my impressions of the imaging haven't changed.
The center image is somewhat fuzzy/hazy, making it a little difficult to pinpoint a vocalist that is mastered centrally on a track. Instruments and vocals that are further out to either side are clearer in the image and easier to pinpoint exact location in terms of left-to-right. Soundstage depth is essentially non-existent so that means imaging depth is similar. Every instrument sounds essentially the same distance away from me.


Aeon 2 Closed Noire:
Soundstage and Separation:

Much wider sounding than Celestee. Soundstage width is very good/wide for a fully closed headphone. The width sounds about as wide as the drivers sit when the headphones are on my head; roughly an inch or two past my ears. I know this doesn't seem like a big difference, but it does sound (subjectively) significantly wider. I believe some of this could be due to the more v-shaped signature of the Noire. In my experience, headphones with a v-shaped signature pull the midrange back in the mix which can "simulate" a wider soundstage just because of the frequency response. Vocals are intimate, like the Celestee, with voices coming from the center of my head, but they sound a bit further away. I do not mean further away in the sense of soundstage depth, but just held back into the mix with the instruments, rather than front-and-center with the Celestee.
Instrument separation is good, but not at the level of the Celestee. I get the feeling if you took the soundstage of the A2CN and the instrument separation of the Celestee you'd have an overall best-in-class presentation for closed-back headphones (I have not heard the LCD-2 Closed, Z7M2, Z1R, or Australis though). Instruments can be heard clearly with the A2CN but are (subjectively) closer together and not given as much space individually. The best way I can describe it is the typical planar presentation of a "wall-of-sound".

Imaging:
Imaging is cleaner overall than the Celestee. Instruments to either side are very similar in that they are clearly placed, but with a bit more space left-to-right (see soundstage). Where the A2CN takes a noticeable step forward is in the center image. I can more easily place centered vocals and instruments than I can with the Celestee. Imaging depth is similar to the Celestee as well, where instruments sound like they're about the same distance from me.

Other thoughts:
Soundstage height seems to be a little larger on the Celestee. It's hard to describe but it sometimes sounds like certain sounds (cymbals expecially) are coming from higher up in my head. I believe this is why the Celestee has a better sense of instrument separation despite having a smaller soundstage width.

Quick Sundara Note: I mentioned somewhere that the Celestee didn't sound as claustrophobic as the Sundara. I'm actually going to change my take on this. The Sundara has a very similar, very intimate vocal presentation and sounds narrow. Further listening determined that while the initial presentation is narrow, the furthest details and instruments (left-to-right) are actually significantly wider than the Celestee. I believe I originally felt that the Sundara was more claustrophobic because of the feeling/sensation of wearing the headphone. On my head, my ears feel more cramped/squished flat with the Sundara, giving a more claustrophobic experience as a whole and I was incorrectly projecting that feeling into the sound.

In my post (#245) responding to Crinacle's impressions, I mentioned I believed the Celestee was a better headphone overall than the A2C. I no longer believe that. Having further compared them and listened to each one, I find them to be almost identical; if I were to give them an overall score, not just soundstage and imaging. If someone is trying to decide between them, I believe it should ultimately come down to what type of sound signature they're looking for.
Go A2CN if you want a more fun, v-shaped response.
Go Celestee if you want a more "neutral"/accurate response.

I'm personally trying to decide which one to keep and I have absolutely no idea which one I want to go with. When I first got the Celestee, I was leaning towards the Aeon. After some time with the Celestee, I was leaning towards it. After further comparison between them, I'm completely tied. I thoroughly enjoy both headphones and believe you can't go wrong with either one... as long as they fit your personal preferences.
 
Last edited:
Mar 12, 2021 at 10:50 AM Post #317 of 634
Great write up about the soundstage. Thank you very much.
Non-sound related drawbacks: I really don't like that the A2CN has glued on pads and is hard to drive.

In terms of comfort, which one does heat up your ears more/faster?

edit: I just noticed, swibbles that you also own the PM-3. At one point I also owned them. I found them to be very closed in and narrow sounding.
Do you think the celestee is as bad in the soundstage department?
 
Last edited:
Mar 12, 2021 at 10:52 AM Post #318 of 634
Even that the pads are "glued on", they are removeable for a couple of times. There is an istruction video by Dan Clark how to do this safely.
 
Mar 12, 2021 at 11:03 AM Post #319 of 634
Great write up about the stoundstage. Thank you very much.
Non-sound related drawbacks: I really don't like that the A2CN has glued on pads and is hard to drive.

In terms of comfort, whoch one does heat up your ears more/faster?
Thanks!

The Aeon really isn't THAT hard to drive if you're using desktop amps. Even a Magni should have enough power to drive them though I haven't tried it. Portability might be harder but if you run balanced out of most modern, mid-fi DAPs, you'll probably be fine. Compared to the Celestee it is significantly harder to drive though.

The glued on pads do suck because I like to pad swap sometimes, but if you're a set it and forget it type of person, it really isn't a big deal. They feel just as durable as the pads on the original Aeon Closed and I had those for a few years and they didn't show much wear. They should last a long time, and at least they're replaceable if they do eventually wear out.
On top of that, I bought my A2C used and each set of pads had been on/off a couple times before I got it. They no longer stick down perfectly/like new, but they do stay on securely and fully seal. There is some leniency with it if you want to compare the A2C pads with the Noire pads.

I honestly can't tell you which one heats up faster. I usually use them at work, where I'm in an air-conditioned space and not wearing them for periods longer than an hour or so at a time between short breaks to talk to a coworker or leave my desk. If I'm feeling warm at a given time, I'll just use IEMs and if I'm not then I just put one of them on and not notice it.
I tend to notice that sensation more on the go and I haven't used either one in that situation yet. Even once I do get out and travel more, I'll likely just be using the XM4 for the better portability.
 
Last edited:
Mar 12, 2021 at 2:16 PM Post #320 of 634
Your are really not making it easier.:darthsmile:
 
Mar 12, 2021 at 2:22 PM Post #321 of 634
I looked over my Celestee when I got it and noticed something a little weird. I haven't seen any others post about it and I honestly forgot to post about it until now, but it appears that mine has a small printing issue on both of the cups where it says, "Celestee". It's been bugging me in the back of my mind.
Has anyone else noticed this with theirs? I don't know if I should ask for a replacement or just live with it. I feel like asking for a different one would be a little crazy considering how small the defects are. On the other hand, it's a $990 headphone, so I would expect it to be perfect. Do you guys have any thoughts?
IMG_5398.jpegIMG_5397.jpeg
 
Mar 12, 2021 at 2:33 PM Post #322 of 634
I looked over my Celestee when I got it and noticed something a little weird. I haven't seen any others post about it and I honestly forgot to post about it until now, but it appears that mine has a small printing issue on both of the cups where it says, "Celestee". It's been bugging me in the back of my mind.
Has anyone else noticed this with theirs? I don't know if I should ask for a replacement or just live with it. I feel like asking for a different one would be a little crazy considering how small the defects are. On the other hand, it's a $990 headphone, so I would expect it to be perfect. Do you guys have any thoughts?
IMG_5398.jpegIMG_5397.jpeg
I would find it annoying too. I probably would not return it for that reason though. But this is very personal, you have to do what feels right for you.
 
Mar 12, 2021 at 3:22 PM Post #323 of 634
I looked over my Celestee when I got it and noticed something a little weird. I haven't seen any others post about it and I honestly forgot to post about it until now, but it appears that mine has a small printing issue on both of the cups where it says, "Celestee". It's been bugging me in the back of my mind.
Has anyone else noticed this with theirs? I don't know if I should ask for a replacement or just live with it. I feel like asking for a different one would be a little crazy considering how small the defects are. On the other hand, it's a $990 headphone, so I would expect it to be perfect. Do you guys have any thoughts?
IMG_5398.jpegIMG_5397.jpeg
Mine doesn't have that. I probably wouldn't return it if for this -- the replacement could have a more substantial defect. I guess it depends on whether you are planning on keeping it for the long term.
 
Mar 12, 2021 at 3:34 PM Post #324 of 634
This headphone seems like its a unique combination of attributes that might be worth getting, while the A2CN sounds like its tuned more to my preference the driveability of it seems really frustrating given everything else about the headphone is tailored for portability, I'm primarily looking for the best possible sound I can get out of my phone in a closed back and this appears to be the leading candidate, I've previously owned the campfire cascade which I really enjoyed but the hilarious levels of bass made it very genre specific and it's super uncomfortable
 
Mar 12, 2021 at 4:35 PM Post #325 of 634
You might have a look at some Denons too. :wink:
Guess the D9200 could fit your needs and is easy to drive.
 
Mar 12, 2021 at 8:35 PM Post #326 of 634
You might have a look at some Denons too. :wink:
Guess the D9200 could fit your needs and is easy to drive.
Let's just keep in mind that Denons are more like semi closed than closed - they leak sound both ways. As for Celestee I have very mixed feelings. Out of the box they were just unacceptable - everything was cramped and nasal with almost no details. After a full day of burn-in, most in the box to make sure my ears are not just getting used to it, it's a tad better but still far from ideal. Instrumental jazz sounds pretty good, orchestral parts can be good and highs are decent but other than that it's still pretty bad. Voices are nasal, lower mids are pretty veiled, base can be a bit dull. I'll give it next few days but without big improvements it's going back
 
Mar 12, 2021 at 9:18 PM Post #327 of 634
New Tuning is in the Celestee Pads?

Can we assume that the new tuning in the Celestee (i.e. "advances" over the Elegia) is mostly due to the new pads?
Pads Focal_Celestee.jpg
 
Mar 12, 2021 at 9:32 PM Post #328 of 634
New Tuning is in the Celestee Pads?

Can we assume that the new tuning in the Celestee (i.e. "advances" over the Elegia) is mostly due to the new pads?
Edit: It does not have a new driver. I was thinking of a different heaphone entirely and got my thoughts mixed up. I originally incorrectly stated there was a new driver.

Has anyone put Celestee pads on an Elegia and seen what happens?
 
Last edited:
Mar 12, 2021 at 9:41 PM Post #330 of 634
Let's just keep in mind that Denons are more like semi closed than closed - they leak sound both ways. As for Celestee I have very mixed feelings. Out of the box they were just unacceptable - everything was cramped and nasal with almost no details. After a full day of burn-in, most in the box to make sure my ears are not just getting used to it, it's a tad better but still far from ideal. Instrumental jazz sounds pretty good, orchestral parts can be good and highs are decent but other than that it's still pretty bad. Voices are nasal, lower mids are pretty veiled, base can be a bit dull. I'll give it next few days but without big improvements it's going back
Quick fix using Equalizer APO kinda fixes major pain points. Will continue experiments but here's current config:

<equalizationeffect>
<curve name="celestee">
<point f="10" d="0"/>
<point f="21" d="0"/>
<point f="42" d="0"/>
<point f="83" d="0"/>
<point f="166" d="-3"/>
<point f="333" d="-6.5"/>
<point f="577" d="-7"/>
<point f="1000" d="0.5"/>
<point f="2000" d="0"/>
<point f="4000" d="3"/>
<point f="8000" d="1.5"/>
<point f="16000" d="1.5"/>
<point f="20000" d="3.5"/>
</curve>
</equalizationeffect>
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top