[mainguy]

It's unbelievable that Samsung enforce such limitation on Android audio codecs.
They charge premium costs for their flagship devices and actually provide an inferior product (at least from this certain point of view).
I find it unexceptable and if I knew it before I would never buy the S22 ultra.
So, as it seems, the only way to get Hi Res sound from the Bathys or the PX8 with this Phone is to wait until they have LDAC support, if ever, or check the Bathys DAC with the S22 ultra and hope it will work...

Or get a small DAP, test the difference side by side and see if you even notice. Could put your mind to rest, as often is marginal change anyway

 

[LoryWiv]

One might be tempted to think that with Samsung being an Android OEM, one would be get more freedom with Samsung. But they're not one hair better than Apple in that regard. Vendor lock-in all the way... Once you buy into the Samsung ecosystem, you're delivered to their mercy. I know that from first hand experience (S22U and GWP5LTE)

But can't you circumvent that by using a 3rd party app. like UAPP?

 

[CasualListener000]

Well no, because to them they sound better.

that’s not the case most of the time. In audiophile hobby, it’s very common to come across expensive things that don’t perform desirably. That’s why people sell almost-new stuff on headfi all the time.

To me Bathys does sound worse than Airpods when
1) using bluetooth (very harsh)
2) playing poor recordings
3) at low volume (mids recessed at low volume and the home eq preset is needed)

But the Bathys dissects busy tracks effortlessly and reproduces acoustic instruments as if they are real. Some people appreciate these features while some don’t like to give up convenience.

 

[CasualListener000]

It's unbelievable that Samsung enforce such limitation on Android audio codecs.
They charge premium costs for their flagship devices and actually provide an inferior product (at least from this certain point of view).
I find it unexceptable and if I knew it before I would never buy the S22 ultra.
So, as it seems, the only way to get Hi Res sound from the Bathys or the PX8 with this Phone is to wait until they have LDAC support, if ever, or check the Bathys DAC with the S22 ultra and hope it will work...

LDAC is not high res, it’s still compressed and non-bit-perfect. From my experience with Sony headphones and FiiO BTR5, LDAC switches down to 660 kbps or 330 kbps bandwidth all the time unless you put your phone right next to the receiving end. When forcing 990 kbps connection, the improvement over AAC is still barely audible. LDAC is just Sony’s marketing term that people associate with Hi-Fi.
I think what Focal needs to do is upscaling low quality input.

 

[Soundizer]

Samsung has vested interest in SSC (Samsung Scalable Codec) that operates at 512kbps. The reason for that.. Vendor lock-in so that they can sell licenses. Only issue there is that the world has moved on and is investing all out in APTX technology.. First Aptx, then APTX-HD, followed by Aptx Adaptive and now Aptx True Lossless.

They're doing the same with the Galaxy Watch series. You only get basic functionality on Android smartphones, the full integration and support only comes when combined with a Samsung Smartphone.

One might be tempted to think that with Samsung being an Android OEM, one would be get more freedom with Samsung. But they're not one hair better than Apple in that regard. Vendor lock-in all the way... Once you buy into the Samsung ecosystem, you're delivered to their mercy. I know that from first hand experience (S22U and GWP5LTE)

Apt X True lossless. I was not aware of this codec.

I will research

 

[WDitters]

Apt X True lossless. I was not aware of this codec.

I will research

The correct name actually is APTX Lossless .. As far as I know the only Qualcomm SOC to support this is the QCC5171 ... And it would require of course the presence of an APTX Lossless capable SOC on both transmitting and receiving devices .... It will still take a while I guess before we start seeing those appear ...

See also https://www.theverge.com/2022/9/26/...ratrue-pro-hd-cd-quality-audio-listening-test

 

[plakat]

Believing anything Qualcomm says is thin ice to me… they also marketed aptX as CD quality… not that I would care.
For mobile use sound differences are secondary to me, connection stability is much more important. I’m quit happy with AAC in that context.

 

[jeanolivier]

Does not connect in APTX HD with my Fiio M15. Otherwise the sound is excellent, typically focal, especially in USB C.

 

[angelom]

PLEASE, PLEASE Focal, give the people using iOS or macOS more volume steps. This is possible with firmware update. 'Audiophile' players are offering 50, 100 or 150 steps in volume. Other many more cheap options from Sony or Bowers & Wilkins or even Bose are giving many more steps than 16 in their headphones. This is VERY more important with albums that having loud masters (like Bowie or Radiohead) and is thousands of albums with similar levels of loudness. The problem is that with only one volume step (up or down) the music can changing to very loud or very quiet.

Bathys is supposing a audiophile headphone where the people listening carefully not only the sound differences BUT too the volume differences that making a person enjoying more OR less the music they're listening.

Somebody posting before here or in other thread the importance of a good app for the customers of today. This is true and this including good and reasonably fast firmware updates for the headphones.

I like the Bathys very much, and is possible I keeping and selling my ML 5909 but the volume problem is making me not enjoying some music so much like I want.

Thank you.

 

[angelom]

I don't know how many people are really waiting for very honest and reliable, more objective, verdict between the Bathys and ML 5909 sound quality.

Until today, after 2 days, with very quick comparisons I'm thinking that I preferring by very little the Bathys, but after 2 days, specially using my time comparing the Bathys with new PX8 yesterday and deciding (more or less easily) that Bathys is better in sound quality, I'm using more correct time today for comparing the Bathys and 5909. The decision is more difficult than I thinking initially, very, very difficult. At least people that trusting my opinions will knowing right now that the Bathys and 5909 are really the best BT ANC headphones today, in my opinion.

Why is my decision, for first time, in many years, so difficult? Because in the sound of this 2 headphones are many variables and this 2 headphones are using very good drivers. One little part in me I want quickly saying shouting "look, the reality is that 5909 is little better!" and stop all the nonsense of complications in explanations and giving many details, ("Look, the 5909 having better resolution, more big soundstage and maybe even better tonal balance")...but isn't so simple. Why? Because with this headphones is necessary making adjustments to original factory sound. The Bathys EQ app is better but isn't so excellent like can be. The 5909 EQ app is limiting changes a lot too.

One thing better in Bathys is that sound in the ANC two modes and transparency mode is (almost practically) really the same. This isn't true with 5909 where (real) off mode and transparency are giving very similar sound that is very, very different from ANC on. And in all 3 modes (off, transparency and ANC) you having 3 settings in the EQ app (neutral, enhanced and attenuated) that only affecting the bass.

Right now, after testing different options, my preference in EQ for the Bathys EQ is this (from low to high frequencies): -1.0dB, 0.0 dB, +2.0 dB, +3.0 dB, +1.0 dB. With 5909 I'm changing between off mode (with no ANC or transparency activated) with enhanced bass, or ANC on with neutral or attenuated bass (ANC on in 5909 is changing very much the bass performance of the headphone (neutral, attenuated and enhanced modes are easily audible).

This is all I can saying now. No decision yet, but I continue more testing and giving more information.

BUT, when the price difference is 200 euros , I think is important mentioning this things:

1. 5909 is better in comfort and better for people with more big heads because arms extending more.
2. 5909 is having real passive mode (not necessary having headphone on, so if battery dead, headphone working with VERY good sound quality)
3. 5909 having LDAC codec.
4. Accessories in 5909 are more in quantity and better too in construction quality. The cables are very much better in quality. The case is too more solid and better quality. You having too airline adapter and USB-C to USB-A adapter.
5. Bathys better for people with more big ears.
6. Bathys having more volume than 5909.
7. Construction quality maybe a little better in Bathys (but headband better definitely in 5909), and the design very much better in Bathys too (in my opinion)
8. Tactile playback buttons better in Bathys (more easy changing volume and tracks)
9. Microphone quality better in 5909 (and many better than px8!), but not very better than Bathys.

 

[polymathic]

Thanks, @angelom. Very helpful insights. Is the ANC on the Bathys any better than the MLs?

 

[redmonddad]

Well, I couldn't resist and bought the Focal Bathys from headphones.com (which surprised me by showing up next day rather than 2 days...and I ordered it after the supposed ordering cutoff for that day; I'm not sure if "Diversified Distributing" is Focal's or headphones.com's distribution center, but it turns out they are just 20 miles south of me).

Out of the box, the headphones did not sound very good. In particular, it was quite shallow in the mid-range. To compensate, I used EQ settings (from low to high frequency) of 0, 0, +1.5, +2.5, +3.5dB (essentially Jude's "Treble up" EQ settings from the beginning of this thread plus a bump up of the 1kHz channel). With that setting, I thought the Bathys sounded OK.

However, letting them burn in overnight really opened them up (note that Focal's online documentation, in the "Optimization" tip, recommends 40-70 hours). It's only been 8 hrs so far, but at this point I'm pretty happy with Jude's "Treble up" setting. I don't have a Celeste to compare with, but I do have the Focal Clear MG and Focal Stellia. Of those two, the Bathys leans more toward the profile of the Stellia in the level of detail and separation I hear. Please don't misunderstand...I am in no way claiming that these are essentially a wireless Stellia. The Stellia is orders of magnitude better than the Bathys, but I do put them on that continuum (which makes sense given that they are both closed headphones).

From a usability standpoint, I find these to be extremely comfortable to wear. I do not notice any discomfort or hot spots from the headband at all and the clamping force is in my comfort range. I do find that my ears get a little warm, but not anymore than any other closed back headphones. The weight is negligible and the Bathys just disappears as I enjoy the music. Control-wise, there's a lot going on, but the most essential controls (ANC button isolated on the left cup and volume/pairing on the right cup) are easily accessed. I would really appreciate a way to access the EQ setting when using Bluetooth on a laptop though (it's currently only accessible via the Focal/NAIM app on iOS and Android). I do find it difficult to connect the USB-C cable and 3.5mm cables while wearing the headphones and find it best to remove the headphones to do so.

I'm really enjoying these, but I'm not sure if these will be my go-to travel headphones. I have a pair of Sony WH-1000MX4, which are much lighter, more compact , and have better ANC. I also have the Apple Airpod Max, which also has better ANC (and better Transparancy mode) than the Bathys and extremely good ergonomics. The spatial audio on the Apple APM also makes it a better headphone for watching video. Overall, I'd describe the Bathys ANC as controlled rather than isolating; and the Transparency mode as a bit tinny or artificial compared to the Apple APM but superior to the Sony's Ambient sound mode. That said, even with the partial burn-in, I strongly prefer the sound quality of the Bathys over my other two travel options. I'm about to take a trip and plan to try the Bathys under real-world travel conditions.

 

[angelom]

Thanks, @angelom. Very helpful insights. Is the ANC on the Bathys any better than the MLs?

I don't comparing ANC or transparency yet, only the microphone quality because I'm in shock this morning when I seeing how very bad the microphone in px8 is in my testing between Bathys and px8 that I needing checking the microphone in 5909 too.

Tomorrow I will comparing ANC and transparency between Bathys and 5909.

 

[stiggy771]

I don't know how many people are really waiting for very honest and reliable, more objective, verdict between the Bathys and ML 5909 sound quality.

Until today, after 2 days, with very quick comparisons I'm thinking that I preferring by very little the Bathys, but after 2 days, specially using my time comparing the Bathys with new PX8 yesterday and deciding (more or less easily) that Bathys is better in sound quality, I'm using more correct time today for comparing the Bathys and 5909. The decision is more difficult than I thinking initially, very, very difficult. At least people that trusting my opinions will knowing right now that the Bathys and 5909 are really the best BT ANC headphones today, in my opinion.

Why is my decision, for first time, in many years, so difficult? Because in the sound of this 2 headphones are many variables and this 2 headphones are using very good drivers. One little part in me I want quickly saying shouting "look, the reality is that 5909 is little better!" and stop all the nonsense of complications in explanations and giving many details, ("Look, the 5909 having better resolution, more big soundstage and maybe even better tonal balance")...but isn't so simple. Why? Because with this headphones is necessary making adjustments to original factory sound. The Bathys EQ app is better but isn't so excellent like can be. The 5909 EQ app is limiting changes a lot too.

One thing better in Bathys is that sound in the ANC two modes and transparency mode is (almost practically) really the same. This isn't true with 5909 where (real) off mode and transparency are giving very similar sound that is very, very different from ANC on. And in all 3 modes (off, transparency and ANC) you having 3 settings in the EQ app (neutral, enhanced and attenuated) that only affecting the bass.

Right now, after testing different options, my preference in EQ for the Bathys EQ is this (from low to high frequencies): -1.0dB, 0.0 dB, +2.0 dB, +3.0 dB, +1.0 dB. With 5909 I'm changing between off mode (with no ANC or transparency activated) with enhanced bass, or ANC on with neutral or attenuated bass (ANC on in 5909 is changing very much the bass performance of the headphone (neutral, attenuated and enhanced modes are easily audible).

This is all I can saying now. No decision yet, but I continue more testing and giving more information.

BUT, when the price difference is 200 euros , I think is important mentioning this things:

1. 5909 is better in comfort and better for people with more big heads because arms extending more.
2. 5909 is having real passive mode (not necessary having headphone on, so if battery dead, headphone working with VERY good sound quality)
3. 5909 having LDAC codec.
4. Accessories in 5909 are more in quantity and better too in construction quality. The cables are very much better in quality. The case is too more solid and better quality. You having too airline adapter and USB-C to USB-A adapter.
5. Bathys better for people with more big ears.
6. Bathys having more volume than 5909.
7. Construction quality maybe a little better in Bathys (but headband better definitely in 5909), and the design very much better in Bathys too (in my opinion)
8. Tactile playback buttons better in Bathys (more easy changing volume and tracks)
9. Microphone quality better in 5909 (and many better than px8!), but not very better than Bathys.

This is good stuff. Thank you. You're slowly but surely pushing me towards the 5909s. I just want to buy a pair and never look back or think again about replacing them .I hate shipping back stuff that I have previously used.

Looks like 5909s would serve me well while working from home - taking calls on MS Teams and then using them to listen to some music as I ramp down my day.ive never been an audiophile but I always tend to get a best in class IEM or headphones and forget about buying anything else for the next 4 or 5 years.
Previously I bought the Sony XM4 and XM3 and they never really sounded good to me, great ANC but very uncomfortable (the top of my head always hurts when using them)

Hoping 5909 would be on another level comfort wise.

 

[WDitters]

I ended up returning the Bathys and stick with the 5909... As much as I love the Bathys' form and execution, as well as its sound profile and quality, the reasons for me were the following:

1: My ears.. Especially my left ear touches the speaker inside the Bathys which, after a while, becomes almost unbearable. Contrary to @angelom's point #5 the 5909 in fact give my left ear more room to breathe.. But that's entirely my personal situation..

2: The absence of LDAC. Even though the difference in quality between LDAC and APTX-HD could be perceived as mostly hypothetical, I almost feel as if this forces me to accept regular APTX as the standard due to the fact that for my work I am unfortunately tied to a Samsung Galaxy S22 Ultra... If I want to benefit optimally from the maximum capabilities of the Bathys, I would have to start dragging my $3.5k Cayin N8ii everywhere.. This for me defeats the purpose a little bit. I want wireless cans to be able to sonically and practically fulfill my travel requirements, and not feel obliged to carry even more additional equipment instead. The 5909 in that sense are simply more up to the task.

3: The difference in Sound quality is simply too small to let one rule over the other. Both the Bathys and the 5909 are up there in their own league, together forming the top of the (wireless) crop. Both are fantastic noise cancelling Bluetooth headphones, pairing more than decent ANC with stellar sound quality. But as it stands, I give the 5909 the (musical) edge. In my opinion they're slightly more neutrally tuned and give me a slightly more relaxed way of presenting a cohesive musical image. In their relatively neutral tuning I also think that in the end they are a fit for more musical styles overall than the Bathys. The latter, with their slighly more V-shaped signature can sometimes over-exaggerate things a little bit..

4: Passive use. The ML 5909 have, as one of their advantages over the Bathys, the capability of being driven purely passively. So the possibilities of using the 5909 therefore extend not only to USB but also passively to 3.5mm/6.3mm singled ended. With my desktop headphone amp the ML 5909 sound even better than in USB mode. And at home, with a 3m cable in the box I sometimes find myself grabbing the 5909 instead of the Stellia or Empyrean, just for practical purposes..

So there you have it... If it weren't for the lack of LDAC and the room that my ears have in the Bathys it could easily have turned the other way... The Bathys sound THAT good and the differences between the two are THAT small... As it stands however, for now, I'll stick to my 5909 and will re-evaluate things when either a Bathys firmware update appears that brings LDAC or the T+A Solitaire T appears and manages to sweep me off my feet...