[kazaakas]

I'm still the fence on whether to get an FA-10 or FA-12 after reading through this entire massive thread.

Had a several year hiatus from head-fi, but currently got a RME ADI-2 DAC FS on the way. Although this unit apparently has a perfectly usable amp on its own, I do want a beefy, impactful amp to complement the RME.

I've still got a Sennheiser HD6XX, Fostex TH-X00 and a AKG Q701 lying around I would be using it with. However, I do seriously intend to invest in higher end headphones later this year, among which a Sennheiser HD800S, as well as at least one higher end planar magnetic.

However for simplicity's sake I would prefer not to get more than 1 dac (although technically a dac+amp) and 1 amp on my desk. So what I'm really looking for is a RME ADI-2 + discrete amp combo that's neutral and versatile enough to power stuff all the way up to very inefficient planars. I will be using the parametric EQ feature of the RME to tame the sound for specific headphone if it seems necessary.

On the one hand I'm very much drawn to the FA-10 for its raw power, as this would really open up the range of planar magnetics I could combo it with. On the other hand the FA-12 would be very nice to keep the whole chain fully balanced, as several of my headphones have balanced impacts as well. Regarding my preferred sound signature, as a basshead I'm doubting whether the extra headroom on the FA-10 or the warmer character of the FA-12 will have the best effect on bass. Any suggestions regarding this situation, e.g. what the FA-10's or FA-12's effect would be on sound signature and versatility of the stack?

 

[wolfstar76]

For those already have the AMP, how long have you guys been waiting? I ordered on Jan 07 and the status is still in processing. Given the situation in Ukrain, I am a little worried that operations/shipping might get disrupted by the incoming conflict or even invasion from Russia.

 

[Infoseeker]

I'm still the fence on whether to get an FA-10 or FA-12 after reading through this entire massive thread.

Had a several year hiatus from head-fi, but currently got a RME ADI-2 DAC FS on the way. Although this unit apparently has a perfectly usable amp on its own, I do want a beefy, impactful amp to complement the RME.

I've still got a Sennheiser HD6XX, Fostex TH-X00 and a AKG Q701 lying around I would be using it with. However, I do seriously intend to invest in higher end headphones later this year, among which a Sennheiser HD800S, as well as at least one higher end planar magnetic.

However for simplicity's sake I would prefer not to get more than 1 dac (although technically a dac+amp) and 1 amp on my desk. So what I'm really looking for is a RME ADI-2 + discrete amp combo that's neutral and versatile enough to power stuff all the way up to very inefficient planars. I will be using the parametric EQ feature of the RME to tame the sound for specific headphone if it seems necessary.

On the one hand I'm very much drawn to the FA-10 for its raw power, as this would really open up the range of planar magnetics I could combo it with. On the other hand the FA-12 would be very nice to keep the whole chain fully balanced, as several of my headphones have balanced impacts as well. Also the FA-12 apparently has some added low-end, which as being quite a basshead certainly interests me. Any suggestions regarding this situation, e.g. what the FA-10's or FA-12's effect would be on sound signature and versatility of the stack?

FA-12 for sure. Only get the FA-10 if it's needed. FA-10 got lots of power, but it's not the most detailed and impactful option out there. It's a great amp, but not a benchmark in any detail of its presentation. It feels slow, that will make things kind of forgiving but would kill the point of your idea of just EQing things.

Fluxlab FA-10 would probably pair will with something like a more clinical unforgiving presenting DAC. Or a dac that happens to be overly impactful/slammy to compensate.

 

[NickT23]

For those already have the AMP, how long have you guys been waiting? I ordered on Jan 07 and the status is still in processing. Given the situation in Ukrain, I am a little worried that operations/shipping might get disrupted by the incoming conflict or even invasion from Russia.

Lets just hope Russia wont invade Ukraine.

 

[wolfstar76]

I'm still the fence on whether to get an FA-10 or FA-12 after reading through this entire massive thread.

Had a several year hiatus from head-fi, but currently got a RME ADI-2 DAC FS on the way. Although this unit apparently has a perfectly usable amp on its own, I do want a beefy, impactful amp to complement the RME.

I've still got a Sennheiser HD6XX, Fostex TH-X00 and a AKG Q701 lying around I would be using it with. However, I do seriously intend to invest in higher end headphones later this year, among which a Sennheiser HD800S, as well as at least one higher end planar magnetic.

However for simplicity's sake I would prefer not to get more than 1 dac (although technically a dac+amp) and 1 amp on my desk. So what I'm really looking for is a RME ADI-2 + discrete amp combo that's neutral and versatile enough to power stuff all the way up to very inefficient planars. I will be using the parametric EQ feature of the RME to tame the sound for specific headphone if it seems necessary.

On the one hand I'm very much drawn to the FA-10 for its raw power, as this would really open up the range of planar magnetics I could combo it with. On the other hand the FA-12 would be very nice to keep the whole chain fully balanced, as several of my headphones have balanced impacts as well. Regarding my preferred sound signature, as a basshead I'm doubting whether the extra headroom on the FA-10 or the warmer character of the FA-12 will have the best effect on bass. Any suggestions regarding this situation, e.g. what the FA-10's or FA-12's effect would be on sound signature and versatility of the stack?

I would suggest you settle for what you got now for a while, and focus on the headphones you want. If you endup with very hard to drive planar, such as HE6SE or susvara, you can go ahead with FA-10, otherwise, FA-12, or other better pairing AMP with your choice of headphones.

 

[kazaakas]

FA-12 for sure. Only get the FA-10 if it's needed. FA-10 got lots of power, but it's not the most detailed and impactful option out there. It's a great amp, but not a benchmark in any detail of its presentation. It feels slow, that will make things kind of forgiving but would kill the point of your idea of just EQing things.

Fluxlab FA-10 would probably pair will with something like a more clinical unforgiving presenting DAC. Or a dac that happens to be overly impactful/slammy to compensate.

Are there any full reviews of the FA-12? Or anecdotal comparisons with FA-10 from users? Having a bit of a problem finding info on the FA-12.

Where did you get the info on about the FA-12 being more detailed, faster and slammy? Have you owned one? These alleged benefits, together with it being fully balanced, definitely spark my interest.

 

[Infoseeker]

Are there any full reviews of the FA-12? Or anecdotal comparisons with FA-10 from users? Having a bit of a problem finding info on the FA-12.

Where did you get the info on about the FA-12 being more detailed, faster and slammy? Have you owned one? These alleged benefits, together with it being fully balanced, definitely spark my interest.

Wait. I wrote that from the point of view of my owning the FA-10. Sorry for the misunderstanding. I meant the FA-10 is not worth the blind buy between the choices you put forward.

I don't own the FA-12 to put it forward in praises. Just that it's more universally praised subjectively (and even objectively) across many forums, discord channels, & reviews.

There is alot of data on the FA-12 just you need more time to find it. But I can give you feedback that my FA-10 doesn't follow the same suit of how the FA-12 is described.

(FA-10 does good, but FA-10 is not crazy amazing enough for me to hype. To consider, FA-12 seems universally praised.)

 

[kazaakas]

Thanks! Interestingly, the only head-to-head comparison I could find between the FA-10 and the FA-12, was on this forum:
https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/flux-fcn-10.24780/reviews#review-25337
https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/flux-fa-12.25444/reviews#review-26843

Interestingly in the review of the FA-12, there is a chapter where it is being compared with the FA-10, where the reviewer claiming kind of the opposite!:

Comparison with the FA-10

For the comparison we have used the FCN-10 with the analogue input which is essentially the same amp portion as the FA-10.

Both amplifiers share the same DNA and they sound immensely musical, engaging, with the same analogue timbre and organic texture.
And if the FA-12 is the well tempered, phlegmatic brother, then the FA-10 is the brutal, sanguine one.
The FA-10 is muscular, raw power unleashed, the bass sounds heavier, fuller, hitting with greater dynamics and impact pushing the drivers to their limits.
Mids textural quality and timbre is the same on both amps as is the smooth, fatigue free and extended treble response but transient attack is faster and snappier on the FA-10 while general presentation is weightier.
The soundstage on the FA-10 is slightly more expanded and the listener is moved a couple of seats back, it takes a little more time for the notes to reach him adding more reverb.
Depth is a touch more stressed and holography stands out as a little better making the FA-10 great for large scale works.
Another thing of note is that FA-12 is more silent with a considerably blacker background, making it more resolving, the master of micro detail and better suited for sensitive headphones.
Two excellent amplifiers that are both equally enjoyable, the one a little relaxed, sweeter, smoother and intimate and the other grander and agile, will suit different systems and preferences.

If anyone is aware of more head-to-head comparisons of the two, please chime in.

 

[Infoseeker]

Hmm, maybe I should try to get a Denefrips Ares to pair with my FA-10. Or whatever was used.

 

[Ichos]

@kazaakas

How can I help?

I am the author of both reviews and I don't agree that the FA-10 does good but the FA-12 better.

Both amplifiers are of the same caliber and equally great.
Differences are more to rather a different take on the same thing.
The power of the FA-10 is undeniable and is better suited for difficult planars.
The FA-12 is a fully balanced design so the first advantage is when someone has a fully balanced chain that would like to keep intact.
Then sound presentation is slightly different and it comes down to preferences.
FA-12 is more intimate than the FA-10 which is a little grander.
The FA-10 is about scale and dynamics while the FA-12 is more zesty, relaxed, giving you a nice hug.
Both amplifiers are equally good on technicalities and share the same musical house sound.
I wouldn't have a problem to live with either of them and I didn't find anyone of them to lack in synergy with a particular headphone.
I used all my available arsenal with both and I never thought that I would choose one over the other with a certain headphone.
I am 100% classical music listener and I would probably use the FA-10 most of the time but then I love the FA-12 for some chamber music.
You see very difficult to choose, this is the problem with excellent sounding products like them.
In the end if my only/main DAC was fully balanced then I would go with the FA-12 because I am OCD and I don't like to break the chain.
Ah, choices... choices...

 

[NickT23]

Hmm, maybe I should try to get a Denefrips Ares to pair with my FA-10. Or whatever was used.

Are you aware they have the FCN-10 ? Go check it out, delta sigma AKM 4493 chip. Its a combo unit.

 

[kazaakas]

@kazaakas
How can I help?

I am the author of both reviews and I don't agree that the FA-10 does good but the FA-12 better.

Both amplifiers are of the same caliber and equally great.
Differences are more to rather a different take on the same thing.
The power of the FA-10 is undeniable and is better suited for difficult planars.
The FA-12 is a fully balanced design so the first advantage is when someone has a fully balanced chain that would like to keep intact.
Then sound presentation is slightly different and it comes down to preferences.
FA-12 is more intimate than the FA-10 which is a little grander.
The FA-10 is about scale and dynamics while the FA-12 is more zesty, relaxed, giving you a nice hug.
Both amplifiers are equally good on technicalities and share the same musical house sound.
I wouldn't have a problem to live with either of them and I didn't find anyone of them to lack in synergy with a particular headphone.
I used all my available arsenal with both and I never thought that I would choose one over the other with a certain headphone.
I am 100% classical music listener and I would probably use the FA-10 most of the time but then I love the FA-12 for some chamber music.
You see very difficult to choose, this is the problem with excellent sounding products like them.
In the end if my only/main DAC was fully balanced then I would go with the FA-12 because I am OCD and I don't like to break the chain.
Ah, choices... choices...

Thanks, that's super helpful! If anything, that makes me veer towards the FA-10 even more. I can get a tamer, less overpowered sound from the integrated amp in my DAC anyway, with optionally a bit of warm EQ.

This actually changes my interest from FA-12 vs FA-10 compariton to the FA-10 vs FA-10 Pro comparison. On Flux Labs their website the specs are nearly the same, the main difference being 0.008% vs 0.002% THD. From what I can gather from the pictures, it seems mainly the capacitors are different on the FA-10 Pro. Perhaps this is a similar capacitor upgrade to @ksorota has done for @Slim1970 .

I've sent them an email asking about the comparison between the two. Will share here if I hear anything back.

EDIT: Found a little bit of info in one of their facebook posts about the FA-10 vs FA-10 Pro: https://www.facebook.com/fluxlabaco...and-implement-all-your-needs/750226055518411/ :

Today we are glad to announce our new model of headphone amplifier - FLUX FA-10 PRO. Our solution called to become the heart of PRO-audio system, providing the power, precision and сontrol, that needs to create music or just for music lovers who need a solution for a critical listening of the records.
Ahead of your questions about the difference FA-10 vs FA-10 PRO, we prepared a small comparison between those two models.
FA-10 features
- JFET inputs and BIPOLAR outputs stage circuit design;
- Neat high freqs
- Full-bodied mids
- Fast and soft bass response with a bit forced Mid-Bass
FA-10 PRO features
- BIPOLAR inputs and BIPOLAR outputs stage circuit design
- Crisp high freqs
- Linear mids
- Precise, percussive bass response
- Remote control (optional)

 

[cfranchi]

Are you aware they have the FCN-10 ? Go check it out, delta sigma AKM 4493 chip. Its a combo unit.

FCN-10 is very (very) good (it has also streaming capability) at the price asked it’s a bargain, it drives all my headphones wonderfully, and it is so convenient : no amp, dac, streamer separate devices.

 

[Ichos]

FCN-10 is very (very) good (it has also streaming capability) at the price asked it’s a bargain, it drives all my headphones wonderfully, and it is so convenient : no amp, dac, streamer separate devices.

I can agree %100.
End game for a lot of people.

 

[kazaakas]

For anyone who's interested in modding the FA-10, here's a copy from a PM conversation between me and @ksorota about replacing the capacitors on the amp. Some impressions of the effects of this way of recapping can be found here, here and here.

Yes, I used all silmic II and Mundorf. All the capacitance ratings remained the same but some of the voltage ratings had to go higher because not all are represented by Elna. The Mundorfs for instance only go in the power reserves section and were upgraded to 63v caps as a 50v variant wasnt available.

Here is my parts list. I rewrote it for clarity.

Once you open up the amp you will know what I am talking about, and depending on the version you have dictates how easy to swap out some of the caps.

In my experience. The input power board is less critical and can be passed, even though it is the simplest part of the mod.

The large power caps (mundorfs in this case) provide the greatest enhancement

The daughter board on the heatsink is the most challenging part if you have one of the original amps as their is no easy way to separate it from the mainboard that does not involve desoldering 4 wires. Their are 4-caps on this board that directly influence the sound and in stock form are muse caps. If you like muse, which many do, its just as easy to keep them. The Elna's that I replace them with are a bit more open sounding with better spatial cues (at least IMO). The fourth one of those caps on the daughter board is lined up with the 4 large power capacitors...and needs to be installed with some extra length on the legs to bend it out of the way.

The large mundorfs I used were 63v. and mighty big, You have to strategically bend the solderpins to allow them to clear one another on the board. The board is fairly easy to desolder and work with, but make sure your iron is not too hot or you risk pulling up a trace. The newer revisions of the board are much more robust and better to work with. You can see the evolution over a short time from initial offering to getting a more finished product.

Flux is a great amp builder and was willing to answer questions about the board, but really didnt want me modifying anything, lol.

Other than the recap, another mod that's being talked about is a fuse mod, that's supposedly synergistic with the modded caps.