[funkur]

Oh that's good. By your calm tone, I sort of wondered/assumed you were able to get a replacement. Very good. And you're right, if the normal fuse works I guess there's nothing wrong with the amp there.

I've also read that one should go slightly higher using SR fuses. I've always used the same rating as stock fuse w/no issues, but it's also prob dependent on gear. The FA-10 thump can cause it evidently, though I'm a little surprised that the last one blew despite being a higher rating.

Yeah, that's the rub for me... I really liked the sound, but I don't want to move further up to a 3.15A or 4A fuse in fear of possibly damaging the FA-10.

 

[tholt]

Yeah, that's the rub for me... I really liked the sound, but I don't want to move further up to a 3.15A or 4A fuse in fear of possibly damaging the FA-10.

Great point.

 

[artist777]

Yeah, that's the rub for me... I really liked the sound, but I don't want to move further up to a 3.15A or 4A fuse in fear of possibly damaging the FA-10.

Try to install the slow type fuse, then it will not blow when the amplifier is turned on, when there is a surge in consumption

 

[funkur]

Try to install the slow type fuse, then it will not blow when the amplifier is turned on, when there is a surge in consumption

Flux specifies a Fast type, I don’t want to mess with it.

 

[tholt]

Try to install the slow type fuse, then it will not blow when the amplifier is turned on, when there is a surge in consumption

Flux specifies a Fast type, I don’t want to mess with it.

Agreed. I'm no electrician, but from what I've read F and S are not interchangeable. Each are used for a specific reason.

 

[sahmen]

Does anyone know what the specs of the Volot are going to be? I've been wondering whether it will simply be a reconstruction of the Amp stage of the Atlas (similar to the way the FA-10 relates to the FCN-10) or whether it is going to have a more independent construction, for example, sport more output power, and maybe, come with a pre-amp stage thrown in... A pre-amp stage would be really nice, and the mo' power part too.

 

[John Massaria]

main differences of 12 and 10? and 10pro? sound wise I am talking about thanks!

 

[MIR05LAV]

main differences of 12 and 10? and 10pro? sound wise I am talking about thanks!

Not that I have heard any of them, but had a chat yesterday with Fluxlab.
Want an amp with great impact, sweet, tube-like midrange and detailed, but not bright highs. Used to have Burson C3XP, and while I loved the huge scene, great separation and incredible layering and details, it was a tiny bit fatiguing for me, especially when listening a bit louder. My headphones are ZMF-s Eikons. Hope they dont mind if I copy it here:

me: (...) I was thinking about lamp amplifier, but maybe a bit warmer solid stade would be good enough Lamps tend to lose some impact with faster genres ..
Flux: So you're looking for some more comfortable sound signature right?
me: yeah, but without losing impact and faster details
F: I think FA-10 would be most preferred for your needs
The sound signature of fa12 is a bit a sparkled with a bit bright mid-range. FA10 is more calm and musical it mids maybe not so detailed as 12 but some unique signature, which is not typical for solid state amplifiers

So from that conversation FA-10 is more laid out? Though it was 12 that is Probalby best way is just chat with them on fb.

I have decided to take FA-10, was thinking about FC-10 as well, but is quite a bit more, and would be better to be able to change DAC? Have anyone compared FC-10 with other DAC-s? Is it good, or is it better to buy standalone DAC unit insted ?
cheers,
Mirek

 

[teknorob23]

main differences of 12 and 10? and 10pro? sound wise I am talking about thanks!

Not that I have heard any of them, but had a chat yesterday with Fluxlab.
Want an amp with great impact, sweet, tube-like midrange and detailed, but not bright highs. Used to have Burson C3XP, and while I loved the huge scene, great separation and incredible layering and details, it was a tiny bit fatiguing for me, especially when listening a bit louder. My headphones are ZMF-s Eikons. Hope they dont mind if I copy it here:

me: (...) I was thinking about lamp amplifier, but maybe a bit warmer solid stade would be good enough Lamps tend to lose some impact with faster genres ..
Flux: So you're looking for some more comfortable sound signature right?
me: yeah, but without losing impact and faster details
F: I think FA-10 would be most preferred for your needs
The sound signature of fa12 is a bit a sparkled with a bit bright mid-range. FA10 is more calm and musical it mids maybe not so detailed as 12 but some unique signature, which is not typical for solid state amplifiers

So from that conversation FA-10 is more laid out? Though it was 12 that is Probalby best way is just chat with them on fb.

I have decided to take FA-10, was thinking about FC-10 as well, but is quite a bit more, and would be better to be able to change DAC? Have anyone compared FC-10 with other DAC-s? Is it good, or is it better to buy standalone DAC unit insted ?
cheers,
Mirek

Hi guys i own the FA12 and have been lucky enough to spend a couple months with FCn10. I've been promising a full comparison for while and hopefully life will let up for longer than 5 minutes and i'll be able do this before they're obsolete.

Quick notes on how the amps compare. First off they have more similarities than differences, obvs one is balanced the other isnt, but because ive been feeding them with the Hugo2 DAC, which is unbalanced, i can only compare single ended performance but at least this keeps things like for like.

Sorry this isnt going to be very organised and there will probably be repetition:

I'm over simplifying but the main source of all of the differences seem to be as result of the 12 being slightly warmer and 10 being cooler. This shapes all other aspects of their presentation, which at their core is very similar, both have excellent imaging, resolving and transparent to the source, virtually linear with the line drawn incrementally above the wamside of the line and they are both two of the most addictive non-tube listens i've had the pleasure of experiencing .

Oh and just FYI i have done most my listening with this set up

• Sennheiser HD820 with some Beyer DT1770 pro, Mr Speakers Ether C Flows
• Hugo2 DAC (with a bit TT2 just to remind me what i'm missing)
• SoTM SMS 200 Ultra Neo with Linear PSU
• With our own ENO ethernet filter and UPOCC silver interconnects, ethernet and power cables

Music: 75% Electronica, 20% indie guitar and 5% anything (hows that for an arbitrary use of percentages? )

I will have missed lots out, this a bit of dyslexic stream of consciousness, but please fire away with any specific questions as ive pages of scrawled notes from the last few months.

Overall presentation of the two amps

both excel at imaging, balance, control, separation, dynamics you name it, both completely coherent with sense of liquidity in the way the frequencies integrate. They are just touch north of neutral heat wise, but as someone who spends a lot of time listening to studio kit, this is what hifi is supposed to do.. it should be just much of musical instrument, it just has to be consistent and coherent with hue it puts of the source material.

Soundstage-

Equal but 10 feels slightly more airy because of its thinner tone, but both are naturally wide and deep, just right without being distractingly wide or overly congested. front to back layering is slightly better to my ears with 12, again probably down to texture and shape from the added warmth

Resolution -

Pretty much even and way ahead of anything i've heard sub £1K or for that matter pretty much everything up £1.5-2K, 10 gives you the same information every listen and if this makes sense the 12 gives you a choice of sitting back and letting the music carry you away or you can listen as critically and deep into the music as you wish, despite the notes having more body they are still well separated, layered and organised

Layering/ Separation

Sort of covered that above, but as i say both do an excellent job here, 10 slightly more space, but its a trade off for 12's slightly nicer texture. Neither are what you'd call holographic, like say my Feliks Audio Euforiai OTL was, but theres still good enough depth to position the instruments/ sounds accurately.

Tonality and Timbre -

FA10 light, clean, and everything sounds natural thanks to a hint of warmth. Everything still has good weight but just less decay and overall body than 12
FA12 Richer, slightly warmer (but never overdone) which gives the whole presentation more body. One key plus of both amps tonality is while they lean towards warm, neither shows any sign of darkness, treble still has just the right amount of sparkle and even though 12 is fuller the mids sound open and immediate.

Bass

Both have present bass in the way i like to hear it, textured natural, layered without any leakage or bloating. The decay is shorter but not clipped with 10, whereas the 12 is just that bit longer with slightly better harmonics for being this way.

Even with Stephen Morris's super price paired down dystopian drumming on Unknown pleasures opener Disorder, both amps put you in the cold warehouse, but i do find the added body and texture the 12 provides, gives thinner sounding 80s 90s new wave an extra 3 dimensionality and slightly more contemporary quality. The 10 is equally evocative, but i probably want to reach for my coat as i'm transported to rainy, cold late 70s manchester... I think my point here is i like both its just different flavours for different moods.

I listen to a lot of complicated sitting down techno, where i look for imaging, detail, balance, precision and pace, but it has to have as anologue and natural packaging if i'm really going to be transported. Both amps do this, but the differences in decay again, are more to suit my mood than making one better than the other.. Today i prefer the 12

Midrange -

My thoughts on this have fluctuated, first i loved the fullness and texture of the 12, then the clean, accurate but natural 10 took my heart. At the moment the pendulum has swung back to the 12, mainly because i'm listening to a lot of guitar music especially Thurston Moore's new'ish album: By the fire, which is noisy, discordant but intricate and complicated. Both make perfect sense of it but i can actually feel the crunch of the guitars and vibration of fingers being dragged up fretboards with the 12, whereas the 10 just keeps me that bit further back from the action.

tonally the midrange is natural and smooth with both, voices of each gender sound right, but as in other areas the 10 is a bit cleaner, a bit more in the studio whereas the 12 is more sitting in the live lounge or front row of gig.

Treble -

The treble is a real unsung hero in both amps, sweet natural, with just the right amount of snap and sparkle, and seamless in integration with the mids. Again tonality is the big difference, 12 is just a bit sweeter, easier to pic up harmonic variations, whereas the 10 while compared other amps like the A90 is sweet, but compared the 12 sounds more studio-like, detailed but less flowing perhaps... these differences are again more a case of how they mesh with the listeners preferences as opposed to making one amp better.

I'm out of time and rather then do what i normally do, which is leave a post half written that then disappears, i'll come back with a bit more of a summing up, comparison to the a90 and thoughts on how the FCN-10's DAC fairs.

Sadly the FCN10 moved on yesterday, but if i had both amps and had to keep one, it would be the FA12, the 10 is amazing but the 12 is unique.

 

[sahmen]

Hi guys i own the FA12 and have been lucky enough to spend a couple months with FCn10. I've been promising a full comparison for while and hopefully life will let up for longer than 5 minutes and i'll be able do this before they're obsolete.

Quick notes on how the amps compare. First off they have more similarities than differences, obvs one is balanced the other isnt, but because ive been feeding them with the Hugo2 DAC, which is unbalanced, i can only compare single ended performance but at least this keeps things like for like.

Sorry this isnt going to be very organised and there will probably be repetition:

I'm over simplifying but the main source of all of the differences seem to be as result of the 12 being slightly warmer and 10 being cooler. This shapes all other aspects of their presentation, which at their core is very similar, both have excellent imaging, resolving and transparent to the source, virtually linear with the line drawn incrementally above the wamside of the line and they are both two of the most addictive non-tube listens i've had the pleasure of experiencing .

Oh and just FYI i have done most my listening with this set up

• Sennheiser HD820 with some Beyer DT1770 pro, Mr Speakers Ether C Flows
• Hugo2 DAC (with a bit TT2 just to remind me what i'm missing)
• SoTM SMS 200 Ultra Neo with Linear PSU
• With our own ENO ethernet filter and UPOCC silver interconnects, ethernet and power cables

Music: 75% Electronica, 20% indie guitar and 5% anything (hows that for an arbitrary use of percentages? )

I will have missed lots out, this a bit of dyslexic stream of consciousness, but please fire away with any specific questions as ive pages of scrawled notes from the last few months.

Overall presentation of the two amps

both excel at imaging, balance, control, separation, dynamics you name it, both completely coherent with sense of liquidity in the way the frequencies integrate. They are just touch north of neutral heat wise, but as someone who spends a lot of time listening to studio kit, this is what hifi is supposed to do.. it should be just much of musical instrument, it just has to be consistent and coherent with hue it puts of the source material.

Soundstage-

Equal but 10 feels slightly more airy because of its thinner tone, but both are naturally wide and deep, just right without being distractingly wide or overly congested. front to back layering is slightly better to my ears with 12, again probably down to texture and shape from the added warmth

Resolution -

Pretty much even and way ahead of anything i've heard sub £1K or for that matter pretty much everything up £1.5-2K, 10 gives you the same information every listen and if this makes sense the 12 gives you a choice of sitting back and letting the music carry you away or you can listen as critically and deep into the music as you wish, despite the notes having more body they are still well separated, layered and organised

Layering/ Separation

Sort of covered that above, but as i say both do an excellent job here, 10 slightly more space, but its a trade off for 12's slightly nicer texture. Neither are what you'd call holographic, like say my Feliks Audio Euforiai OTL was, but theres still good enough depth to position the instruments/ sounds accurately.

Tonality and Timbre -

FA10 light, clean, and everything sounds natural thanks to a hint of warmth. Everything still has good weight but just less decay and overall body than 12
FA12 Richer, slightly warmer (but never overdone) which gives the whole presentation more body. One key plus of both amps tonality is while they lean towards warm, neither shows any sign of darkness, treble still has just the right amount of sparkle and even though 12 is fuller the mids sound open and immediate.

Bass

Both have present bass in the way i like to hear it, textured natural, layered without any leakage or bloating. The decay is shorter but not clipped with 10, whereas the 12 is just that bit longer with slightly better harmonics for being this way.

Even with Stephen Morris's super price paired down dystopian drumming on Unknown pleasures opener Disorder, both amps put you in the cold warehouse, but i do find the added body and texture the 12 provides, gives thinner sounding 80s 90s new wave an extra 3 dimensionality and slightly more contemporary quality. The 10 is equally evocative, but i probably want to reach for my coat as i'm transported to rainy, cold late 70s manchester... I think my point here is i like both its just different flavours for different moods.

I listen to a lot of complicated sitting down techno, where i look for imaging, detail, balance, precision and pace, but it has to have as anologue and natural packaging if i'm really going to be transported. Both amps do this, but the differences in decay again, are more to suit my mood than making one better than the other.. Today i prefer the 12

Midrange -

My thoughts on this have fluctuated, first i loved the fullness and texture of the 12, then the clean, accurate but natural 10 took my heart. At the moment the pendulum has swung back to the 12, mainly because i'm listening to a lot of guitar music especially Thurston Moore's new'ish album: By the fire, which is noisy, discordant but intricate and complicated. Both make perfect sense of it but i can actually feel the crunch of the guitars and vibration of fingers being dragged up fretboards with the 12, whereas the 10 just keeps me that bit further back from the action.

tonally the midrange is natural and smooth with both, voices of each gender sound right, but as in other areas the 10 is a bit cleaner, a bit more in the studio whereas the 12 is more sitting in the live lounge or front row of gig.

Treble -

The treble is a real unsung hero in both amps, sweet natural, with just the right amount of snap and sparkle, and seamless in integration with the mids. Again tonality is the big difference, 12 is just a bit sweeter, easier to pic up harmonic variations, whereas the 10 while compared other amps like the A90 is sweet, but compared the 12 sounds more studio-like, detailed but less flowing perhaps... these differences are again more a case of how they mesh with the listeners preferences as opposed to making one amp better.

I'm out of time and rather then do what i normally do, which is leave a post half written that then disappears, i'll come back with a bit more of a summing up, comparison to the a90 and thoughts on how the FCN-10's DAC fairs.

Sadly the FCN10 moved on yesterday, but if i had both amps and had to keep one, it would be the FA12, the 10 is amazing but the 12 is unique.

This is interesting and informative. Thanks. What I need to determine with some precision are the exact specs of the Fa12, especially its output power. I find it interesting that Flux Labs like to hit one upfront with the Fa 10's 16 watts into 32 ohms credentials and yet opts to remain silent on the exact specs of the Fa-12. I am not necessarily saying that there is some conspiracy or something fishy going on... I just want to be sure whether the Fa 12 can muster the same muscle in output wattage as the Fa 10 when handling loads that are more difficult than typical, in situations where each last watt counts, such as the He6SE or the Susvara. So far, I do not see anything I do not like in your description of either amp. However, these extremely hard to drive cans can always bring some sonic differences to the table, if it should turn out that the output power of one amp (e.g. the 10), significantly exceeds that of the other (e.g. the 12). That is why i want to make sure the 12 is not under-spec'ed in this particular area.

 

[MIR05LAV]

What I need to determine with some precision are the exact specs of the Fa12, especially its output power.

From their website:
FA-10

Output power	300Ohm: 1.7W RMS per channel, 32Ohm: 16W RMS per channel, 600Ohm: 1W RMS per channel

FA-12

Output power	300Ohm: 360mW RMS per channel, 32Ohm: 2600mW RMS per channel, 50Ohm: 1700mW RMS per channel

There is quite a difference.

 

[teknorob23]

This is interesting and informative. Thanks. What I need to determine with some precision are the exact specs of the Fa12, especially its output power. I find it interesting that Flux Labs like to hit one upfront with the Fa 10's 16 watts into 32 ohms credentials and yet opts to remain silent on the exact specs of the Fa-12. I am not necessarily saying that there is some conspiracy or something fishy going on... I just want to be sure whether the Fa 12 can muster the same muscle in output wattage as the Fa 10 when handling loads that are more difficult than typical, in situations where each last watt counts, such as the He6SE or the Susvara. So far, I do not see anything I do not like in your description of either amp. However, these extremely hard to drive cans can always bring some sonic differences to the table, if it should turn out that the output power of one amp (e.g. the 10), significantly exceeds that of the other (e.g. the 12). That is why i want to make sure the 12 is not under-spec'ed in this particular area.

Have you messaged them through facebook, they are pretty quick to come back. They are a small company growing fast so i dont think its a case of not wanting to share info, they probably havent got around to it, but if you message them they should be able to give you the info you need. I havent run either amp with such power hungry headphones so i cant say for certain, but i'm sure someone else can chip in here who has. Would you be running the 12 balanced because this will make difference

 

[sahmen]

From their website:
FA-10

Output power	300Ohm: 1.7W RMS per channel, 32Ohm: 16W RMS per channel, 600Ohm: 1W RMS per channel

FA-12

Output power	300Ohm: 360mW RMS per channel, 32Ohm: 2600mW RMS per channel, 50Ohm: 1700mW RMS per channel

There is quite a difference.

Yes, quite. I wonder why I couldn't see these Fa-12's specs when I briefly visited the site this morning (emphasis on "briefly" )

 

[sahmen]

Have you messaged them through facebook, they are pretty quick to come back. They are a small company growing fast so i dont think its a case of not wanting to share info, they probably havent got around to it, but if you message them they should be able to give you the info you need. I havent run either amp with such power hungry headphones so i cant say for certain, but i'm sure someone else can chip in here who has. Would you be running the 12 balanced because this will make difference

Yes, I would be running it balanced, but I am not sure how far that will go in making up for the shortfall in output power if I am dealing with the less than typical difficult loads I mentioned. As for messaging them on Facebook, I have already done that (chatted) several times, and have been told upfront, repeatedly and without any wavering, that the Fa-10 is the way to go, so it almost doesn't feel polite to continue pressing them for answers about other models. Now since I am ideally interested in balanced internal circuitries, the one unit which I am additionally interested in is the Volot, but I find that they're particularly "mum" about its specs at this time, so there too, I am disinclined to press further for answers.

 

[jaker782]

Yes, I would be running it balanced, but I am not sure how far that will go in making up for the shortfall in output power if I am dealing with the less than typical difficult loads I mentioned. As for messaging them on Facebook, I have already done that (chatted) several times, and have been told upfront, repeatedly and without any wavering, that the Fa-10 is the way to go, so it almost doesn't feel polite to continue pressing them for answers about other models. Now since I am ideally interested in balanced internal circuitries, the one unit which I am additionally interested in is the Volot, but I find that they're particularly "mum" about its specs at this time, so there too, I am disinclined to press further for answers.

Well, if you are pairing with something like the HE-6se or Susvara, it seems to me the FA-10 is definitely the way to go (unless you want to wait for the Volot) despite the FA-10 not being balanced. Even if the FA-12 running balanced does okay with those hard to drive cans, the FA-10 even single ended should do better as 16W vs. 2.6W into 32 ohms is a huge difference, regardless of balanced vs. single ended topology.

PS. I am using the FA-10 to drive my HE-6se, and feel it does a wonderful job! I prefer it to the balanced Liquid Platinum, which is more powerful than the FA-12.