[Hooster]

Me:
What is quiescent current and why is more of it good?

Vitaliy (FLA):
"That means that the amplifier operates in a more linear mode, or we can say that it works in a deeper class A. This provides lower harmonic and intermodulation distortion. But the most important thing is that it provides a more solid / monolithic sound. You will get a higher level of details also across the entire frequency range"

Reading this forum is like prospecting for gold. You get gravel, rocks and mud but sometimes you find a lovely gold nugget. The above is one of them, thanks for sharing, and thanks, Vitaliy.

 

[Hooster]

I've been trying to convince myself that balanced vs SE internal topologies might not amount to any difference, sq-wise, but who am I kidding, right?

This is a topic I have given some thought. In absolute terms balanced IS best. There is no denying it. On the other hand, $ for $ a convincing argument can be made for single ended. With balanced you have to double up on everything. You need what amounts to 2 single ended amplifiers.

Let's say you have $2000 to spend on an amplifier. You can have a single ended amp or balanced. If you spend the $2000 on a balanced amplifier you will have to accept components that are significantly cheaper and of lower quality than what you would get if you spend $2000 on a single ended amplifier because you need essentially 2 amplifiers instead of just 1.

I do not have unlimited funds so I will always choose the best single ended amplifier for my budget.

Balanced components are great for professional use where there may be issues with long cable runs, noise and transients that occur when components are plugged in and out. None of these are a problem for domestic hi-fi.

 

[sahmen]

Could see you do have V281 which should be warm and have a great Bass and details per your requirement, so what do you lack in V281 for which you want to get the FA-10 ?

I'm interested in the FA-10 as a source of more muscular Class A power to drive the cr*p out of the Susvara...

Never owned or even seen a Susvara before myself, but for some--no many--of the folks on the Susvara forum, almost no amp ever seems to be adequate for the task, including my v281. If/when I get the Susvara, I would like to eliminate all those amp-related headaches once and for all; hence my interest in the FA-10.

 

[gancanjam]

I'm interested in the FA-10 as a source of more muscular Class A power to drive the cr*p out of the Susvara...

Never owned or even seen a Susvara before myself, but for some--no many--of the folks on the Susvara forum, almost no amp ever seems to be adequate for the task, including my v281. If/when I get the Susvara, I would like to eliminate all those amp-related headaches once and for all; hence my interest in the FA-10.

Since you own V281 and LP, you can relate to FA-10 sound and yes it can drive any HP which should include Susvara & Abyss well. Would also suggest you to check wit Flux support on Volot characteristics to see if it is something you want to wait for. On your question on details, FA-10 does improves in details/resolution with the DACs used but there should be a reason for Volot's existence to be 4 times the price of FA-10, typically you pay for Resolution & a specific sound signature so i am just guessing that Volot may up level in terms of resolution compared to FA-10, how much up level is something no one knows yet. Just be wary of Flux support team descriptions (they throw a lot at you like clear, linear, percussion, punch, extended frequency spectrums etc. which is a hit or miss for me ) and ask them to describe it if you are in doubt as sometimes the understanding may be bit different. If you still go in FA-10 route, it may work out for you anyways.

 

[rmsanger]

Since you own V281 and LP, you can relate to FA-10 sound and yes it can drive any HP which should include Susvara & Abyss well. Would also suggest you to check wit Flux support on Volot characteristics to see if it is something you want to wait for. On your question on details, FA-10 does improves in details/resolution with the DACs used but there should be a reason for Volot's existence to be 4 times the price of FA-10, typically you pay for Resolution & a specific sound signature so i am just guessing that Volot may up level in terms of resolution compared to FA-10, how much up level is something no one knows yet. Just be wary of Flux support team descriptions (they throw a lot at you like clear, linear, percussion, punch, extended frequency spectrums etc. which is a hit or miss for me ) and ask them to describe it if you are in doubt as sometimes the understanding may be bit different. If you still go in FA-10 route, it may work out for you anyways.

Here is some feedback I received on the FA-10 on another site that I found helpful:

Got to hear one of these things finally lol, just the regular fa-10, not the pro. Honestly pretty solid, had a pretty enjoyable tuning, was a bit warmer sweeter thicker but didn’t lean too far into it, it had pretty nice dynamics and also impressive impact, detail was solid, it was a wider sounding amp, not a ton of depth but still pretty nice.
Honestly it’s a good middle ground for preformance to cost ish, where it’s an upgrade over the stuff in the 500 range, but not quite competing with the 1.5k ish mark stuff, but solid overall. I enjoyed most planar off of it, and it did pretty well with high ohm Beyers for fun (although with the Beyer’s I could use more refinement for my taste imo). Was pretty nice though, if you have a harder to drive headphone this thing powers most with ease, although I might say that with more easy to drive but amp picky headphones it might be a tad too sloppy for my tastes (like a clear or utopia for example)
Dac wise I only got to try a few dacs (holo may kte, mytek manhatten, chord hugo tt 2 + mscaler, and also an ares ii and bf2), and it really paired well with most of them, although I preferred the may and actually the manhatten the most, did a pretty decent job at letting a fair amount of the dac shine through. The bf2 felt a bit too soft for my tastes with this amp, the hugo kinda tilted it more neutral which was still good sounding but honestly the tuning of the amp is one of the more valuable aspects it has so I would prefer to maintain or enhance that. The mytek ended up keeping the house sound of the flux while tightening it up a bit and giving an increase in definition. The may gave it a more spacious stage and a bit more depth which was nice, but ended up actually taking a tad of meat off the bone sound wise in comparison, although still really nice. The ares ii was a good match, did it justice but that being said I did find it to get a bit too colored in nos mode for my tastes with this amp so I actually kept it on os
The main headphones I ended up trying were the 1266, susvara, he6, utopia, aeon 2c, t1.2, kennerton horn (can’t spell it), lcd 24 and 3pf, and adx5k.
The aeon 2c was really good here, gave some real improvement to control and impact, sweetened up the midrange a bit, had more body in the bass, and some extra width, was a real solid pairing for the money imo. The lcd 24 was nice here too, actually responded pretty well, you can get more out of it with a nicer amp but it didn’t feel like it was being limited that much, overall just emphasized what it already had to offer. The 3pf I actually liked more on this amp, really just liquid sounding with great naturalness and impact, real nice, although perhaps it could use a bit more treble energy since it was a tad soft there. The kennertons had a fair bit of noise and it kinda made them too boomy and sloppy, was the best, kinda same with the utopia, although with the utopia it really was also lacking from a technical perspective, it’s a very picky headphone lol. The 5k went better than I thought, gave it some needed body, improved smoothness in the treble, and gave it a bit more width, also more impact was nice, but this one I kinda felt was a bit lacking in terms of precision again. The 1.2 kinda did better imo, it helped calm the beyer treble and gave it more body, while not sacrificing detail and control as much.
Now for the big ones that are the real power hogs lol. While it did drive the he6 better than most headphones amps I can think of at this price, I still think a power amp here is the way to go, imo grabbing a used power amp in the 700 range would drive the he6 better than the fa-10 can offer imo. But if you have to have a headphone amp, this is a decent pick but I still would push people towards a speaker amp. Regarding both the susvara and 1266, these did sound good and enjoyable on the flux, but I would highly recommend you go much higher amp wise to actually get what these headphones can offer. While the flux did have good control over them, they felt super watered down and not worthwhile on this amp compared to higher end offerings imo. This amp could be a reasonable budget holdover for them, but I would highly just suggest saving up and going higher, otherwise if you never plan to go higher I don’t know if the 1266 or susvara is worthwhile, you might be better suited with a diana v2 or he1000se if you plan to stick with the fa10
Edit: I typically don’t say this much lol, moreso just a stream of thoughts, tldr I like it’s tuning and it’s competent for the price, good for warmer fun, best paired with most non flagship planar, but for really amp picky higher end headphones I think it shows the weaknesses of this amp too much and they just want more to get where they should be, overall good though if you keep pairings within reason.
Can’t really go into a ton of detail outside of basic thoughts since I only got about a day with it for the most part, but perhaps I can get more time with it later on lol, it was interesting

My response

Thanks for this quite extensive overview! I trust your takes and dang I guess I was hoping for a slightly more positive review from you. I was hoping the 1265 and Susvara would be viewed more favorably especially with all that power. Would you say the musicality and dynamics are strong with these two and it’s just transparency that’s missing?

Response

That prob did seem a bit negative lol, to be clear I do think the amp is a good value and is pretty worthwhile depending on the headphones that might be had, but it’s no giant killer imo (things rarely are lol)

I was hoping the 1265 and Susvara would be viewed more favorably especially with all that power.

While yes those headphones are power hungry they also really like quality power, you can throw a ton of power at them to get them moving, but you really want quality to back that up imo. I don’t really think either of them demand the speaker amp treatment like the he6, but they do enjoy having more behind them

Would you say the musicality and dynamics are strong with these two and it’s just transparency that’s missing?

It’s just that overall the amp isn’t there for what those headphones demand from a quality perspective. It is not lacking power whatsoever, but it just doesn’t have the finesse and control, detail, spatial recreation, resolution, dynamics, black background, organicness that the 1266 and susvara also command. It’s not lacking for the price, it’s just that the 1266 and susvara demand more imo, and it’s pretty apparent when you listen to higher end amps with those headphones, it’s just a different league. Now if flux takes what they have here in the fa-10 and bring it closer to the higher end levels their flagship could really be a great option. But while I don’t think the flux is really lacking in most aspects and is pretty well rounded, it just isn’t going to give you the potential that’s in the 1266 or susvara like higher end amps can. It’s just a case of people expecting too much imo, it’s a quality amp, but really if you have headphones like that you should put just as much if not more in your source gear to unlock what they are really capable of. They don’t sound bad on the fa-10, it’s just hard to look past how much more you can be rewarded by going higher for the source gear with those headphones. You could prob live in ignorance and be happy with it, but imo again I do think one would be better off with a bit lower tier less demanding headphone where it can be more easily brought to it’s potential for the most part

 

[gancanjam]

Here is some feedback I received on the FA-10 on another site that I found helpful:



My response



Response

It is a nice thought through impression and felt good to read through, some of my comments

more easy to drive but amp picky headphones it might be a tad too sloppy for my tastes (like a clear or utopia for example) - My experience is same , as FA-10 does a better job with HPs like Abyss & HE1000 compared to Utopia

but not quite competing with the 1.5k ish mark stuff - It depends on which amp it is compared against, i have not listened to every amp but to me it stands ground as a side grade with some of the amps i have heard in that higher price point but agree that FA-10 is not the be all - end all amp. As stated, the pricier Neo 430 is clearly an upgrade to FA-10 while ifi Can Pro or Rogue audio RP5 is a side grade to my ears with me still leaning towards FA-10

The bf2 felt a bit too soft for my tastes with this amp, the hugo kinda tilted it more neutral - Same experience i have as with Hugo pairing it felt neutral to me while Hugo as AIO felt brighter without FA-10, with in built DAC the Highs are softer to me especially with Utopia

it just doesn’t have the finesse and control, detail, spatial recreation, resolution, dynamics, black background, organicness that the 1266 and susvara also command. - While DACs can improve detail/resolution i do agree here that there is a scope to improve detail/resolution which an Higher tier amp can offer but with Abyss 1266 it was more than adequate to me with FA-10, remember this is a musical amp and does not try hard to be a detail accuracy monster which Flux support Vitaly himself told me once so he is right in pointing it out

Regarding both the susvara and 1266, these did sound good and enjoyable on the flux, but I would highly recommend you go much higher amp wise to actually get what these headphones can offer - Please do check which Higher end amplifiers he was referring to for driving Susvaras and Abyss 1266, the list cannot be long as they are tough to drive, i had a friend who sold $2K + Phonitors & Ampsound as it could not drive Abyss well and i myself was not happy to listen to say, $2.5K WA 22 amp which was struggling to get a head room, so the list of recommended amps will help all of us

 

[Wesley88]

but not quite competing with the 1.5k ish mark stuff - It depends on which amp it is compared against

"v280/gsx mini/taurus mkii/etc level"

That's what they were comparing to at 1.5k.

 

[artist777]

Here is some feedback I received on the FA-10 on another site that I found helpful:



My response



Response

Very useful point of view. Thanks. Undoubtedly, the quality of circuitry and components plays an essential role in the creation of technology. To a greater extent, I agree with the opinion that you can want or get a much higher result from listed headphones model. But let's be honest, none of the creators called the device an endpoint; guys just made an excellent, fair offer that is a great deal to many. No cheating. Finding a concept of sound for one and all is a utopia. It seems that this is manifested in the search for polar ideas of sound, because it was no accident that the PRO model was presented. Two different concepts for different audiences. After communicating with the support service, and the guys answered me literally the following: "FA-10 and FA-10PRO based on similar topology but with some unique differences. Thanks to that, FA-10 and FA-10PRO has the same output power but different sound character. PRO version is more crisp and detailed; the bass response has more focus but less voluminous. Classical version is more warm and musical; mids are more emotional." I find the main problem at the moment the lack of a more detailed analysis of the sound signature of these two models by third-party reviewers. I think it would be much more difficult for the gentleman who wrote so many things to highlight the conditionally weaknesses of the amplifier, which simply did not fit into his picture of perception.

 

[tholt]

In a nutshell, the FA10 is a $750 amp. In that context, I'd say it's very competitive and does a lot of things well, some impressively well. If you have headphones that are also in that price range, you might be set. But if you have cans that retail in the several thousands of dollars, like Susvara, Abyss, even Utopia and easier to drive ones, the FA10 will be the weak link there. Those cans are priced that way because they are truly TOTL. They do things other headphones can't, they are technically and sonically superior to other headphones, and they are priced accordingly. IMO, if you are going to invest in that level of headphone, you can't expect to get the most out of them with a low to mid-tier amplifier. You just won't. I'd say the FA10 did well with the Abyss 1266 Phi that I own. But is it endgame? No. Can it be bettered? Yes. However, this is not to say that one can't be happy with the FA10 and a TOTL headphone. That part will always be subjective.

My feeling is that Flux set out to deliver a worthy contender, with a lot of power, at a price point. They wanted to offer a lot of value, which they have. The FA10 is a solid option in the <$1k market. I don't believe they set out to deliver an endgame amp in the FA10. If they did, it would do things better and be priced higher (and I assume that's where the Volot might come in). So I think they knew exactly what they were targeting and priced it accordingly.

If anyone is looking for amp suggestions specifically for Abyss, be sure to check out the dedicated thread. It's huge and very active, with lots of info https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the-jps-labs-abyss-ab-1266-impressions-thread.666765/

 

[Hooster]

As stated, the pricier Neo 430 is clearly an upgrade to FA-10 while ifi Can Pro or Rogue audio RP5 is a side grade to my ears with me still leaning towards FA-10

Are you sure? Have you compared them seriously? Some would say that the Neo 430 is not that great: " he 430HA sounds a bit slow and - as much as it pains me to say this - almost boring in a way."
https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/simaudio-moon-neo-430ha.20534/reviews
I have seen others who are not that enthusiastic about the 430. What is it about the 430 that makes you say it is clearly an upgrade to the FA-10?

 

[gancanjam]

Are you sure? Have you compared them seriously? Some would say that the Neo 430 is not that great: " he 430HA sounds a bit slow and - as much as it pains me to say this - almost boring in a way."
https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/simaudio-moon-neo-430ha.20534/reviews
I have seen others who are not that enthusiastic about the 430. What is it about the 430 that makes you say it is clearly an upgrade to the FA-10?

Are you sure? Have you compared them seriously? Yes to my ears. I own both FCN-10/FA-10 and Neo 430 HAD so this is my first hand impression

Some would say that the Neo 430 is not that great: " he 430HA sounds a bit slow and - as much as it pains me to say this - almost boring in a way." - No am glad you are sharing these to discuss, you are right that these perceptions does float around and by the way i am sure you also would have also seen the opposite side of the coin which are the praises of this unit to sound way more than the $5K price point so which side we have to believe now ? we only can believe our ears which is unique to our preference i read these few not so good impressions myself but still ended up buying the Neo 430 as i listened to it more than few times myself. Following( at the end of the post) is what i had written down yesterday which also gives this caveat about these perception which you had also highlighted. I found HE 1000 V2 to be slower/softer with 430, Mezze Empyrean/Stellia were relaxed sounding while Utopia & Abyss sounded lively. Even with Utopia which sounds fast with many songs, i can think of few things why some would call it slower 1) HP pairing 2) some songs can **seem** to sound slower if 430 pushes a lot of Sub bass as the sub bass is not that quick & punchy with added depth 3) also 430 has the way to make everything sound fuller/bigger/refined so that may add a perception of the speed trade off. With utopia i am having fun with 430.

What is it about the 430 that makes you say it is clearly an upgrade to the FA-10? following is my experience/compare-contrast with FA-10

50% Head Fiers like Chord sound while 50% like Fuller sound like FA-10 & Neo 430 so pick your poison of preference, everyone of us is different

Simaudio Moon Neo 430 HAD AIO - I have never seen any DAC/Amp embarrassing FCN-10/FA-10 so far and have listened to quite a few of them but it does not mean no $5K DAC/Amp will outwit FCN-10. Enters Neo 430 ! If FA-10 is a well made buttoned up formal shirt then Neo 430 is even better i.e. a Tuxedo and it sounds... in words, expensive, grand, high end. However it has some mixed reviews in the forum, though many has sung accolades, there are few call Neo 430 as softer, overly smoother, less precise, slower, older DAC chip and i respectfully disagree the generalization here as it all comes down to the the pairing, song recording & listening preference. Moon Neo 430 HAD AIO DAC is musical and to compliment the amplifier is uber detailed solid state so that combo hit home runs in most departments. It is Detailed still musical, extended gobs of Treble details flying around still non offensive, that big Sub bass thud still controlled, can listen to both Sub bass as well as the faster Micro drum beats, Full sounding like being in a English pub, Instruments circling around your head to greet you when it is introduced, Highly resolving. Compared against FA-10, Neo 430 has more Sub bass presence with decay lingers around a mico second more trading off slightly with the FA-10s quicker mid bass slam/decay , both are full sounding but Neo 430 is grander, Neo 430 resolution/clarity is noticeably superior than FA-10, Dynamics/instruments/ guitar plucks/violins/everything else in Neo 430 are on the face with realistic feeling to give goose bump moments compared to FA-10 where some instruments can go to the background with smoother overlay e.g. a Guitar pluck sounds very realistic and crystal clear with Neo 430 without harshness compared to FA-10 paired with Utopia, Neo 430 treble feels like being on a discotheque with that Hi fidelity in offensive extended treble sound **njinchikk ..njinchikkk ** , both are great for EDM/Pop/Electronica with Neo 430 still having that clear edge to my ears compared to Flux but hey Neo 430 it is 5 times more expensive. I liked Neo 430 better than same priced Luxman P750U as well.

 

[rmsanger]

Very useful point of view. Thanks. Undoubtedly, the quality of circuitry and components plays an essential role in the creation of technology. To a greater extent, I agree with the opinion that you can want or get a much higher result from listed headphones model. But let's be honest, none of the creators called the device an endpoint; guys just made an excellent, fair offer that is a great deal to many. No cheating. Finding a concept of sound for one and all is a utopia. It seems that this is manifested in the search for polar ideas of sound, because it was no accident that the PRO model was presented. Two different concepts for different audiences. After communicating with the support service, and the guys answered me literally the following: "FA-10 and FA-10PRO based on similar topology but with some unique differences. Thanks to that, FA-10 and FA-10PRO has the same output power but different sound character. PRO version is more crisp and detailed; the bass response has more focus but less voluminous. Classical version is more warm and musical; mids are more emotional." I find the main problem at the moment the lack of a more detailed analysis of the sound signature of these two models by third-party reviewers. I think it would be much more difficult for the gentleman who wrote so many things to highlight the conditionally weaknesses of the amplifier, which simply did not fit into his picture of perception.

Agreed this came from a poster on another audio forum I visit frequently and he has a ton of credibility when providing honest/useful feedback. I trust his take!

I agree on the 2nd point and it's the great community that may have contributed to the hype of the FA-10 perhaps beyond it's actual performance. But I think his praise and then expression of limitations basically sets up the value prop for the Volot. Others on this thread have questioned the crediblity of Flux offering a higher priced / statement / TOTL amp when they aren't "known" for it. Others have also why you would want to go from a $750 investment -> $2500 where his commentary lays out what specifics are to be gained by the Volot. I guess the takeaway is HE6 likely pairs best still with speaker amp, Susvara/1266 you will want the volot or other statement amp and everything else lower will likely pair best with FA-10. At least that is what I got out of it.

 

[tholt]

Sorry if I missed it -- does anyone here own the FA10 Pro? I don't recall reading any firsthand experiences with it here or elsewhere

 

[Slim1970]

In a nutshell, the FA10 is a $750 amp. In that context, I'd say it's very competitive and does a lot of things well, some impressively well. If you have headphones that are also in that price range, you might be set. But if you have cans that retail in the several thousands of dollars, like Susvara, Abyss, even Utopia and easier to drive ones, the FA10 will be the weak link there. Those cans are priced that way because they are truly TOTL. They do things other headphones can't, they are technically and sonically superior to other headphones, and they are priced accordingly. IMO, if you are going to invest in that level of headphone, you can't expect to get the most out of them with a low to mid-tier amplifier. You just won't. I'd say the FA10 did well with the Abyss 1266 Phi that I own. But is it endgame? No. Can it be bettered? Yes. However, this is not to say that one can't be happy with the FA10 and a TOTL headphone. That part will always be subjective.

My feeling is that Flux set out to deliver a worthy contender, with a lot of power, at a price point. They wanted to offer a lot of value, which they have. The FA10 is a solid option in the <$1k market. I don't believe they set out to deliver an endgame amp in the FA10. If they did, it would do things better and be priced higher (and I assume that's where the Volot might come in). So I think they knew exactly what they were targeting and priced it accordingly.

If anyone is looking for amp suggestions specifically for Abyss, be sure to check out the dedicated thread. It's huge and very active, with lots of info https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the-jps-labs-abyss-ab-1266-impressions-thread.666765/

I have a couple of the headphones you mentioned, namely the Susvara's and Abyss TC's. Both are very picky about amplification pairings. After listening to them both on the FA-10 I wouldn't necessarily call in the weak link in my chain at all. It does very good job at driving both them. It's quite the musical pairing if I'm being honest. I don't feel that I'm missing out on much sound wise at all. Detail, resolution, speed, punchy, impactful bass, a musical midrange, treble clarity, weighty notes all get checked off on the FA-10.

I have a Burson Timekeeper power amp and it does get me that last bit of refinement. But it's also 4x's the price. So I get what you're saying about The FA-10 being a contender in the amplifier market because it is. The trade-offs are minimal for what you get for $750 in comparison. I can easily live with FA-10 as my only amp. The Susvara, TC's and HEKse's all let you hear system flaws. With the FA-10 in the chain those flaws have minimized to my ears. I'm a fan of the way the FA-10 does music. Sure it's not the most technical amp I've heard. But those amps aren't a good pairing with the TC's or Susvara's. These headphones need a dose of musicality and that's what the FA-10 offers over a lot of the competition. You really do have to spend a considerable amount of money to get that last bit of refinement, musicality and power to best the FA-10. To me, that is what makes the FA-10 a heck of a deal.

 

[tholt]

I have a couple of the headphones you mentioned, namely the Susvara's and Abyss TC's. Both are very picky about amplification pairings. After listening to them both on the FA-10 I wouldn't necessarily call in the weak link in my chain at all. It does very good job at driving both them. It's quite the musical pairing if I'm being honest. I don't feel that I'm missing out on much sound wise at all. Detail, resolution, speed, punchy, impactful bass, a musical midrange, treble clarity, weighty notes all get checked off on the FA-10.

I have a Burson Timekeeper power amp and it does get me that last bit of refinement. But it's also 4x's the price. So I get what you're saying about The FA-10 being a contender in the amplifier market because it is. The trade-offs are minimal for what you get for $750 in comparison. I can easily live with FA-10 as my only amp. The Susvara, TC's and HEKse's all let you hear system flaws. With the FA-10 in the chain those flaws have minimized to my ears. I'm a fan of the way the FA-10 does music. Sure it's not the most technical amp I've heard. But those amps aren't a good pairing with the TC's or Susvara's. These headphones need a dose of musicality and that's what the FA-10 offers over a lot of the competition. You really do have to spend a considerable amount of money to get that last bit of refinement, musicality and power to best the FA-10. To me, that is what makes the FA-10 a heck of a deal.

That's great. I never said it wasn't a great amp, and that one couldn't be perfectly happy with it. If it checks all your boxes, more power to you.

You really do have to spend a considerable amount of money to get that last bit of refinement, musicality and power to best the FA-10.

Yes, you would have to spend more money to get a better amp, that's obvious.