[Nalin]

In my experience, increasing bore size decreases treble response. Also, I hate Spinfits with all of my life, it really screws with the tonality, plus getting a proper seal with them was always very difficult for me.
Symbio's are "generic" eartips with 3M 1100 Foam Ear Plugs (or some other brand) inside of them. It improves on Isolation, but tonality-wise they are like any other eartip.

Trial and Error, I suppose.

I think flc8s are designed for deep insertion especially with those long nozzles. Deep insertion has its own benefits over shallow insertion for example lesser but tighter bass and better treble response.

The stock tips that is one step bigger then the smallest size is perfect for my ear in terms of seal but not in terms of comfort. Spinfits cp100 s which is 11mm is smaller but gives perfect comfort. Spinfits remove some glare in the lower treble region that stock tips has and thus provide better details and pinpoint accuracy.

If jvc can beat them in this point then imo it's the best eartips for flc8s. Perhaps i should order the ms size because s with 10mm would be too small.

 

[csglinux]

Indeed, this is something very subjective. Individual anatomy, insertion-angle, just too many factors playing into it.
The graph is interesting, especially the "anomaly" at 10kHz, mind telling me your set-up? Most set-ups are just not accurate beyond 10k (or even earlier), e.g. Veritas.

I used a vibro-veritas coupler with a Startech soundcard and REW.

Insertion depth is something you try to match as closely as possible, but a small shift isn't a disaster - it just shifts the resonance peak slightly (deeper insertion= higher frequency resonance peaks). You'll see those peaks match fairly closely among the measurements.

 

[FUYU]

I think flc8s are designed for deep insertion especially with those long nozzles. Deep insertion has its own benefits over shallow insertion for example lesser but tighter bass and better treble response.

The stock tips that is one step bigger then the smallest size is perfect for my ear in terms of seal but not in terms of comfort. Spinfits cp100 s which is 11mm is smaller but gives perfect comfort. Spinfits remove some glare in the lower treble region that stock tips has and thus provide better details and pinpoint accuracy.

If jvc can beat them in this point then imo it's the best eartips for flc8s. Perhaps i should order the ms size because s with 10mm would be too small.

Well, I always need the biggest size available (LL with the Sony's). Just try them with every available eartip in your collection.

I used a vibro-veritas coupler with a Startech soundcard and REW.

Insertion depth is something you try to match as closely as possible, but a small shift isn't a disaster - it just shifts the resonance peak slightly (deeper insertion= higher frequency resonance peaks). You'll see those peaks match fairly closely among the measurements.

Yeah, the measurements are fairly consistent to what I've seen with other sources. What was your reference insertion-depth in that case? Can you make an assessment on why do you think this "phenomenon" is occurring anyway? Altering the overall volume inside the eartips, seems to modify the acoustic resistance. Changes are akin to adding an acoustic dampener, when looking at the variance from 1kHz to 8kHz. However that 10kHz variance is just off the charts and I remember Luke saying that the accuracy of the Veritas gets pretty bad above 8kHz. So I'd like to dismiss the notion that this is solely due to the changes in eartips.

 

[csglinux]

Yeah, the measurements are fairly consistent to what I've seen with other sources. What was your reference insertion-depth in that case? Can you make an assessment on why do you think this "phenomenon" is occurring anyway? Altering the overall volume inside the eartips, seems to modify the acoustic resistance. Changes are akin to adding an acoustic dampener, when looking at the variance from 1kHz to 8kHz. However that 10kHz variance is just off the charts and I remember Luke saying that the accuracy of the Veritas gets pretty bad above 8kHz. So I'd like to dismiss the notion that this is solely due to the changes in eartips.

The accuracy of any mic can be in question over 10 kHz, because their sensitivity rolls off up there the same way most IEM driver outputs do. To a large extent you can fix that with a mic and soundcard calibration file. But even without such calibration files, you will still see the deltas between two eartips. Foam attenuates. Silicone tends to reflect. And higher frequencies are always more susceptible to any type of attenuation. These measurements are completely repeatable. The effects of foam vs silicone aren't going to be different if you measure them again next week in the southern hemisphere with different prevailing wind conditions. The differences are 100% attributable to the eartips used. The variance at higher frequencies can be removed via longer history FFTs and/or octave band smoothing (these plots were narrow band), but the average differences between measurements won't change.

The effect of insertion depth is completely physical - shorter distances between the driver and the mic/eardrum at the same sound speed require shorter transmission times, so higher resonance peaks. But in a coupler, insertion depth is easy to control within a fairly tight tolerance.

 

[FUYU]

The accuracy of any mic can be in question over 10 kHz, because their sensitivity rolls off up there the same way most IEM driver outputs do. To a large extent you can fix that with a mic and soundcard calibration file. But even without such calibration files, you will still see the deltas between two eartips. Foam attenuates. Silicone tends to reflect. And higher frequencies are always more susceptible to any type of attenuation. These measurements are completely repeatable. The effects of foam vs silicone aren't going to be different if you measure them again next week in the southern hemisphere with different prevailing wind conditions. The differences are 100% attributable to the eartips used. The variance at higher frequencies can be removed via longer history FFTs and/or octave band smoothing (these plots were narrow band), but the average differences between measurements won't change.

The effect of insertion depth is completely physical - shorter distances between the driver and the mic/eardrum at the same sound speed require shorter transmission times, so higher resonance peaks. But in a coupler, insertion depth is easy to control within a fairly tight tolerance.

I'm more asking myself about difference in silicone tips. Foam vs. Silcone is pretty self-explenatory. Same with the Triflanges. I'm just talking about single flange. You said that, in your experience, the larger the bore the more high-frequency attenuation you get. My question is, if this is solely due to the width of the bore ("effectively" simulating a horn; adding resonant peaks in the process), or because of the volume inside the bore, acting as an acoustic resistance (larger bore -> less acoustic resistance and vice versa), perhaps causing sound dampening. Because the latter would effectively mean less SPL, and I always believed that was the case. Or does the volume not matter at all? Because if that would be the case, are smaller bores better overall?

 

[csglinux]

You said that, in your experience, the larger the bore the more high-frequency attenuation you get.

It's the other way around. Large bore = more treble/less high frequency attenuation.

 

[FUYU]

It's the other way around. Large bore = more treble/less high frequency attenuation.

Just to make sure we are on the same page: Increase in SPL at high frequencies. Because I thought less high frequency attenuation translates to less overall SPL. Seems like I just misused the word attenuation. That's why I use numbers more than anything, lost in translation I suppose.
EDIT: Dictionary: A generic term for a reduction or diminution of activity, intensity, power or virulence of a reaction or effect, or an organism’s ability to grow and/or multiply. Guess this solves all my questions. *sigh*

 

[Ziggomatic]

What's the silibance like with these? I hear in most reviews that these have silibance, but like it's a non-issue. Personally, I can't listen to music with silibance.

Treble on the FLC8S is very well extended and hotter than most IEMs I've tried. This is not a criticism - I love the treble on these - but you are going to hear sibilance if it's present in the recording; no way around it. I've been able to mitigate sibilance to suit my own taste through tip selection, but YMMV.

 

[originalsnuffy]

Tip choice is very idiosyncratic. For me I like the JVC Spiral dots as they give me a good seal and therefore good bass response. But mileage with tips really varies by the individual’s sense of frequency response and ear shape.

 

[Bubblejuice]

No word on silibance yet?

Treble on the FLC8S is very well extended and hotter than most IEMs I've tried. This is not a criticism - I love the treble on these - but you are going to hear sibilance if it's present in the recording; no way around it. I've been able to mitigate sibilance to suit my own taste through tip selection, but YMMV.

How would the treble on these compare to something like the ER4XR? I've yet to hear any sibilance from them.

 

[originalsnuffy]

I don’t think of the FLC8S as having hot treble. And that can be toned with the big filters. I like the gunmetal which has more treble than the gold. Most users seem to go either gold or gunmetal. Green is in fact a treble party if that is your thing.

 

[chickenmoon]

Use blue filter and treble won't be hot at all.

 

[Nalin]

I used a vibro-veritas coupler with a Startech soundcard and REW.

Insertion depth is something you try to match as closely as possible, but a small shift isn't a disaster - it just shifts the resonance peak slightly (deeper insertion= higher frequency resonance peaks). You'll see those peaks match fairly closely among the measurements.

So is deep insertion a good or a bad thing?

I have 2 choices in my case here which is either use a largest tip that provides a shallow insertion and be in a bass party or use the smallest tip possible that goes way deeper and provides tightest bass response and brighter treble.

Does this mean that with deep insertion i am artificially enhancing these higher frequency resonant peaks..

 

[csglinux]

So is deep insertion a good or a bad thing?

IMHO, it's generally a good thing, because most BA drivers tend to roll-off before 10 kHz. So unless you have an IEM that's designed for a shallow seal or you have a lot of high-frequency hearing loss, you'd normally want to push those resonant peaks as high as possible.

And as a bonus, deeper-inserting IEMs will usually isolate better too

P.S. All sound-reproduction is artificial. As long as you enjoy it...

 

[Nalin]

IMHO, it's generally a good thing, because most BA drivers tend to roll-off before 10 kHz. So unless you have an IEM that's designed for a shallow seal or you have a lot of high-frequency hearing loss, you'd normally want to push those resonant peaks as high as possible.

And as a bonus, deeper-inserting IEMs will usually isolate better too

P.S. All sound-reproduction is artificial. As long as you enjoy it...

Yes i like deep insertion no pun intended..

What i have noticed is that deep insertion is not possible with normal/cheaper iems unless they are designed to do so. Flc8s has long nozzles which means i can use smallest possible eartips.

Btw i just got an lg v30+ and it has some sweet vocals and treble that goes really well with these.