[McCol]

Well, I ordered the FlaresGold. Now just waiting for them to be shipped...

I have a question though pertaining to dacs for use with the Flares Gold. I currently have the Meridian Explorer2, which is a great device, but from what I've read of it, it uses its own proprietary hardware with software-focus on the side of processing. I'm curious if I'd be better off getting a more dedicated hardware solution. I've written off ESS and Burr-Brown options, as they tend to be warmer sounding, not exactly what I want, though of course not the complete other end either. I've read alot of good things regarding Cirrus Logic, and am thinking of getting the Nexum Aqua+. Or is the Explorer2 good enough?

https://www.nexum-design.com/product-page/aqua-32bit-wireless-headphone-amp

https://www.meridian-audio.com/en/products/dacs/usb-dacs/explorer/

Can’t help you much in terms of recent DACs but they sound wonderful from a Mojo

 

[HiFlight]

Well, I ordered the FlaresGold. Now just waiting for them to be shipped...

I have a question though pertaining to dacs for use with the Flares Gold. I currently have the Meridian Explorer2, which is a great device, but from what I've read of it, it uses its own proprietary hardware with software-focus on the side of processing. I'm curious if I'd be better off getting a more dedicated hardware solution. I've written off ESS and Burr-Brown options, as they tend to be warmer sounding, not exactly what I want, though of course not the complete other end either. I've read alot of good things regarding Cirrus Logic, and am thinking of getting the Nexum Aqua+. Or is the Explorer2 good enough?

https://www.nexum-design.com/product-page/aqua-32bit-wireless-headphone-amp

https://www.meridian-audio.com/en/products/dacs/usb-dacs/explorer/P

Edit : The charging of the Nexum is via usb. Any way of knowing if it could also be used to stream audio via the same usb cable? I don't want to use wireless. I may need to find another product with the CS chipset.

Instead of worrying about a DAC at this point, why not just use your smartphone as a transport for the Bluetooth balanced DAC/Amp and enjoy the great sound. I use it at least as much as my DX200 and find the sound quality to be excellent. By not using the Bluetooth balanced device, you will be missing one of the best features of the Flares! Don't dismiss using Bluetooth without first giving it a fair evaluation.

 

[McCol]

Instead of worrying about a DAC at this point, why not just use your smartphone as a transport for the Bluetooth balanced DAC/Amp and enjoy the great sound. I use it at least as much as my DX200 and find the sound quality to be excellent. By not using the Bluetooth balanced device, you will be missing one of the best features of the Flares! Don't dismiss using Bluetooth without first giving it a fair evaluation.

Good point. The Bluetooth performance on the Pro was excellent, not even tried it yet on the Gold but know it will be just as good.

Sold my Sennheiser IE800s today due to the Golds. Wouldn’t say they were head and shoulders above them but there was enough in it for to decide that I could keep the Golds over the Senns plus I’ve just joined the Noble K10 massdrop!! and recently taken delivery of the AKG N5005. So something had to give.

 

[LuckyNat]

It depends what is meant by software. I would guess that it is software loaded up onto a FPGA type processor. All chips are processors of some sort, whether programmable or not. I would also venture to say that proprietary software on a generic FPGA platform can be more powerful and therefore MORE dedicated to digital audio processing, than generic DAC chips which are produced to be used in a wide range of products. Many of those DAC chips include all sorts of amplification,codec support and other bits which are a compromise so that they can be used in different ways.

One really just has to judge by how they sound or how other people say they sound....

 

[Arysyn]

Thanks to the responses I've received here. This has been a very helpful thread, and I believe I'm close to having the right iem for me with the FlaresGold. I really liked the FlaresPro in many ways, just only for the the treble issue if that hadn't been a problem, I'd be very happy with it. So, I'm going to give the FlaresGold a try, knowing it'll be good in 85% of the way, hoping the treble tuning is better.

Also, I'm going to stay with the Meridian Explorer2 dac for now, which actually is an excellent device, just that I'm curious about the hardware differences with a standalone dedicated dac versus the software tuning focus I've read about as it pertains to the ME2. Meanwhile, I'll wait for a non-wireless USB dac/amp featuring the new CirrusLogic system the Nexum Aqua+ has.

I'll try the bluetooth option with the FlaresGold also, but I'm still not very hopeful on it being a replacement for the 3.5mm. That is my speaking fairly and honestly about it. Although I'm fine with it being as it is though, as an alternative option. There needs to be more of those in audio.

 

[LuckyNat]

Good point. The Bluetooth performance on the Pro was excellent, not even tried it yet on the Gold but know it will be just as good.

Sold my Sennheiser IE800s today due to the Golds. Wouldn’t say they were head and shoulders above them but there was enough in it for to decide that I could keep the Golds over the Senns plus I’ve just joined the Noble K10 massdrop!! and recently taken delivery of the AKG N5005. So something had to give.

Hmm, I'd not seen that massdrop... and for a similar price to the Golds with the discount. Gahhhhh...... It's so hard to tell if something expensive is going to sound better than something else expensive. You have to have the cash saved in order to try both! Noble K10Cs were my aspiration but then Flare Audio came along with some things a lot cheaper!

McCol, have you listened to a Noble K10 before?

 

[McCol]

Hmm, I'd not seen that massdrop... and for a similar price to the Golds with the discount. Gahhhhh...... It's so hard to tell if something expensive is going to sound better than something else expensive. You have to have the cash saved in order to try both! Noble K10Cs were my aspiration but then Flare Audio came along with some things a lot cheaper!

McCol, have you listened to a Noble K10 before?

No I haven't listened to them before, big step in the dark in some respects, however couldn't resist at that price. Did try Noble X massdrop edition and was a bit meh about them, nothing special and struggled with the fit. However did have the old Heir 4 when wizard was still involved and loved them.

The Golds will take some beating though, wonderful earphone with the discount price, to my ears better than the Senn IE800s which is retailing for £870.

 

[barondla]

Congrats on getting the Golds @Arysyn. Hope they are everthing you are looking for, sonically.

Surprised with your assessment of the ESS chip. Don't recall anyone calling them warm. Usually people say the opposite. Good designers seem to be able to avoid the coldness.

 

[Victorfabius]

I ordered and received the Flares Gold. Been listening to them and initially felt a bit underwhelmed. Listening to the Flares Pro (Which I still have, since nobody want to buy them, it seems. Oh well, I will have to clean them again. Worth it.) and I'm struck by three thoughts:

1. The Flares Gold are noticeably quieter (likely a higher impedance, right? - Educate me if I'm wrong, please)
2. The Flares Gold are as good or better at all the things the Flares Pro do
3. The Flares Pro are still damned good

I was toying with the idea of returning the Golds initially. Now I'm not so sure. I've got the Hiby R6 allegedly arriving next week and I'm thinking with the high output impedance on the Hiby, that both the Flares might pair well. I'll have to see. Anyone have experience with the R6 and the Pros or the Golds?

Since it was brought up, I find the ESS9018K2M implemented in the Onkyo DP-X1 and X1A series warm. However, I find the ESS9028Pro as in the FiiO X7 Mark II and iBasso DX200 to be much more neutral.

 

[HiFlight]

No I haven't listened to them before, big step in the dark in some respects, however couldn't resist at that price. Did try Noble X massdrop edition and was a bit meh about them, nothing special and struggled with the fit. However did have the old Heir 4 when wizard was still involved and loved them.

The Golds will take some beating though, wonderful earphone with the discount price, to my ears better than the Senn IE800s which is retailing for £870.

I did own the Noble K10U for awhile, but did not find it to provide the sense of realism that I now hear from the Golds. I also thought they seemed to be rather fragile. Overall, I felt them to be overpriced for what they were. Of course that is my opinion and others may have had a different experience with them.

 

[Arysyn]

Congrats on getting the Golds @Arysyn. Hope they are everthing you are looking for, sonically.

Surprised with your assessment of the ESS chip. Don't recall anyone calling them warm. Usually people say the opposite. Good designers seem to be able to avoid the coldness.

Hi Barondla. I hope everything is well with you. I haven't seen you post in a while, though wondering if you are or have considered the Gold? I'm going to write a review here regarding them, definitely this time, unlike what happened when I planned to write a review on the Pro, but didn't. Actually, perhaps it is good I didn't, because now I can write a review on both in the same article.

I realize people here who have the Gold say there isn't the treble harshness with the Gold, but besides that, it doesn't seem there is a huge difference between them, but rather a few refinements. So, I'm expecting alot of the good qualities of the Pro to be present in the Gold, qualities I definitely miss. Plus, it'll help for the areas of my review where I discuss the Pro, in ways that remind me of it, but more in detail.

In regards to the ESS Sabre, I'm very bass sensitive, so when I hear a difference in bass quality being less than on the ESS Sabre, I am then pretty much turned away from the ESS Sabre. In fact, I use to really like the ESS Sabre, based on its implementation in the LG V10. However, the version/tuning in the LG V20 I was very disappointed with the quality. On the V10 it was like detail wonderland, but without the treble harshness. Whereas the V20 was possibly the same treble, but I didn't notice it because of the bass and the recess in the mids that kept negatively distracted me with wonder as to why the difference compared to the V10. I was new to studying advanced audio technology at the time, and hadn't yet understood much of the basics of dacs/amps.

Then there was the Zorloo Zuperdac with its ESS Sabre, which really helped to make the tinny ultra treble (yet still without the harshness in the upper treble range) of my Ortofon EQ8 sound dynamic, rich enough. Yes, it was then I realized it was adding bass, and was something I actually liked because certain ba driver iems really need it.

The better way to describe my relationship with bass is that I generally hate it, particularly when its there to add thumpiness, or boomy, darker atmosphere - such as in supper club music. I really cannot tolerate either. However, when bass helps the dynamic richness to the sound in fullness, then its fine. Its the good kind of bass the FlaresPro had, which listening to it completely alleviated my concerns with the product regarding the sub bass that appeared slightly elevated in the fr graph Flare gave to me. It was the exact kind of supportive, non-intrusive bass Flare assured me.

Back to the Zorloo Zuperdac though. While it was great with ba driver iems I tried, it was the complete opposite with dynamic driver iems. It made them boomy and thumpy, recessed the mids, and put me through V-Shape hell. Side note : I thought of a neat thread I'm going to create on Head-Fi when I finish writing this post - which will be about my disliking to infinity of the V-Shape sound signature.

Anyways, remember my concern about the ifi iematch device, barondla? That was because of my worries regarding increased ohms. Around the time I was listening to the awful sound output over my dd driver iem through the Zorloo Zuperdac at the time, which was a B&O product, I found a thread somewhere (either on this site or another site), where people where complaining of greatly increased bass through the Zorloo Zuperdac that ruined the listening experience for people using it with dd driver iems because of the increased ohm output apparently. That is what made me skeptical of any device increasing ohms. Thankfully the ifi device was not that big of ohm increase though.

I decided to get the Meridian Explorer2 after my having done several hours of research about various devices, the reviews of the ME2 being the closest to my sound preferences. Indeed the ME2 is absolutely amazing - I think its a wonderful device all audio purists and mid-forward and treble seekers should consider getting. The only issue I think it possibly could have is with its software approach to operating, versus using a dedicated chipset solution, such as Cirrus Logic, Wolfson, ESS Sabre, Burr Brown, etc. I'm wondering if some iems might prefer one way or another.

Such as I know the FlaresPro upper treble harshness issue definitely is not the music I listened to, its recording, mastering, etc. everything is fine with these songs playing on other iems I tried without the treble issue. Also, it wasn't some defect in the ME2 itself either, but perhaps what I was wondering if it might just be a preference issue in whatever the source transfer is based from. I'm considering this after all, knowing people swear on things, such as sound changes based on the type of headphone cabling, burn-in time, certain materials in the casing, finishes, and lots of other possible considerations outside of the main functionality in the iem. Therefore, a different approach to dac operation may be the difference in quality, depending on the iem. I'm certainly not saying this definitely is the case, but more so suggesting the possibility it might be. If so, then it would be good to consider the options.

Right now though, at least for me and my preferences, there really is nothing better than the ME2, until a device with usb connectivity and the new Cirrus Logic dac becomes available.

 

[Arysyn]

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the-anti-v-shape-sound-signature-thread.875481/

 

[LuckyNat]

I did own the Noble K10U for awhile, but did not find it to provide the sense of realism that I now hear from the Golds. I also thought they seemed to be rather fragile. Overall, I felt them to be overpriced for what they were. Of course that is my opinion and others may have had a different experience with them.

I have a theory that realism is a factor of impulse response (and maybe phase response). i.e. that you get fast leading edges more like in real life, like the plop of a rain drop sounds like you could reach out and touch it. I first thought about that when a police helicopter was flying nearby and when there was direct line of sight (hearing) the sound was so much more alive and real than the reflected sound off the buildings. Whilst both sounded like a real helicopter.... It suddenly occured to me that this was what was missing when listening to hifi/headphones.

 

[HiFlight]

I have a theory that realism is a factor of impulse response (and maybe phase response). i.e. that you get fast leading edges more like in real life, like the plop of a rain drop sounds like you could reach out and touch it. I first thought about that when a police helicopter was flying nearby and when there was direct line of sight (hearing) the sound was so much more alive and real than the reflected sound off the buildings. Whilst both sounded like a real helicopter.... It suddenly occured to me that this was what was missing when listening to hifi/headphones.

I agree with your theory. I also suspect that is due in large part to the synergy between an individual's ear anatomy and those factors you mentioned. Unfortunately, that elusive sense of realism seems to be an individual psycho-acoustic factor that doesn't lend itself to measurement.

 

[Arysyn]

Hi everyone,

Tomorrow (Monday) is a big day for me, as I should be receiving the FlaresGold. Hopefully it'll arrive early in the day to give me plenty of time to listen to it for the big review I'm planning of it. I'm going to compare it to what I remember of the FlaresPro, long with comparisons to the Flare R2A. I would have written a review of the R2A itself, but considering its an older model no longer directly available from Flare Audio, I didn't see much of a reason/purpose in doing so. However, it ought to fit in fine for discussion relating to the FlaresGold in contrast with the development from the previous lineup to this newer lineup. Unfortunately, I never got the Flare R2Pro situation resolved in a way for me to have it in use, but I did get refunded by the store I purchased it from. Otherwise, I'd also include the R2Pro in the review.

My review is going to be an expansive one discussing Flare Audio as a company I'm hoping to get to know more of, if I am at least as impressed by it as I am from the R2A and also by the majority of positive aspects regarding the FlaresPro, outside of the upper treble harshness. I'd even love to do an interview with someone who works at Flare Audio, but before I give them all this posutive attention, I need to make sure its met first by my full satisfaction from their signature flagship iem, the FlaresGold. I really want this to be the case though, because besides Flare Audio providing me with their absolutely wonderful CS, they are a company trying to focus on the naturalness of music in the mids, while also trying to provide the necessary treble needed for that "live" experience. I just don't want it to be so much that it causes some issues with harshness in the treble, which unfortunately is what I experienced from the FlaresPro.

Oh, and also - Thank goodness Flare Audio isn't in the V-Shape market! Speaking of V-Shape, I've updated the thread title for my recent anti V-Shape thread, to include both a positive reference to the alternative, along with highlighting an idea that I believe might help people to discover sound outside of the V-Shape, of which their choice of V-Shape may not necessarily be because of preference, but merely because of product availability and price. While I'd love to change that by encouraging manufacturers the use of natural tuning in their products, I believe doing that isn't as successful as trying to promote an option that gives choice in tuning. I do realize that won't be without hurdles either, as it could significantly cut back on iem product lines, but the positive aspects of choice is something that ultimately has the best chance, and what I mean by that is a true, fully customized tuning solution - No EQ, No Nobs, No Filters. Just a complete tuning calibration system.

Read more, here...

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the...stom-tuning-solution-discussion-thread.875481