FlaresPro/FlaresGold by Flare Audio
Mar 1, 2018 at 9:48 AM Post #376 of 1,354
That's to ignore Flare Audio's innovative (well, not done else where - "innovative" is a positive spin on just being different) design approach. You can say in traditional terms that a rear vent enhances bass response, but the Flare Audio approach is that rear chamber design effects everything the driver does! Everything is about matching the presures in front and behind the driver so that movement is the same across all frequencies in both parts of the pressure wave, both negative pressure and positive pressure are equal.

How the air moves and how the rear chamber chracterises the air's response to pressure behind the driver at different frequencies, effects the driver's output compared to input signal trying to drive the membrane. So shaping the chamber may well be the largest part of that. Accuracy of the shaping of the chamber is what this gold plating is being claimed to improve.. Claimed, the important word here.

I igree though that we can't compare the rear opening to a speaker bass port, even if there are similarities. Mainly, probably, because you'd need to consider the size of the port in comparison to the chamber - this size port for such a small chamber is never seen on speakers, probably the hole in a Kef 104.2 closest but completely different still.
OK maybe using a speaker was a bad example but the focal utopia and gold seem more similar than not
 
Mar 1, 2018 at 10:03 AM Post #377 of 1,354
Does anyone who has the Flares Gold and has at least listened to the Flares Pro and noticed the metallic sound in the upper treble of the Flares Pro, is there the same metallic sound present in the Flares Gold? I've been trying to get Flare to answer more specific details about the sound differences, but they're trying to get me to take a trial of it after purchase instead. I think its wasteful, because if I hear that on the Flares Gold, I'll have to return it, which means a loss for Flare, and I'm trying to prevent that and of them getting bitter at me for another return, considering I had to return the FlaresPro and even the Flare R2Pro, although the latter was to AudioSanctuary and not for sound quality reasons.
I don't know if it's a metallic sound but maybe digital,I loved the Sony xb4 in ears and ppl thought they were metallic sounding although I think the flare pro less so,I love the sound of my flare pro and I've got a pair of focal clear pro headphones on the way so not sure if the gold will be over kill for me as I like the flare pro so much
 
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Mar 1, 2018 at 10:38 AM Post #378 of 1,354
Does anyone who has the Flares Gold and has at least listened to the Flares Pro and noticed the metallic sound in the upper treble of the Flares Pro, is there the same metallic sound present in the Flares Gold? I've been trying to get Flare to answer more specific details about the sound differences, but they're trying to get me to take a trial of it after purchase instead. I think its wasteful, because if I hear that on the Flares Gold, I'll have to return it, which means a loss for Flare, and I'm trying to prevent that and of them getting bitter at me for another return, considering I had to return the FlaresPro and even the Flare R2Pro, although the latter was to AudioSanctuary and not for sound quality reasons.
Hopefully later today I can comment on the treble issue that you reported although my Gold will be just OOTB. Not sure if this would be a fair comparison though as my Pro has lots of hours thus far.
 
Mar 1, 2018 at 2:21 PM Post #379 of 1,354
I don't know if it's a metallic sound but maybe digital,I loved the Sony xb4 in ears and ppl thought they were metallic sounding although I think the flare pro less so,I love the sound of my flare pro and I've got a pair of focal clear pro headphones on the way so not sure if the gold will be over kill for me as I like the flare pro so much

I had the FlaresPro for a few weeks. I don't know if you remember my frequent reporting and updates here during that time about my experiences with the FlaresPro, but ultimately I was very happy with them in regards to the well-controlled, non-overblown bass, great, forward vocals, and plenty of detail, though Flare could have added more to the lower treble - especially for what I'm about to say...

Flare purposely wanted a "live" sound, which at least in my hearing can be done in two ways. One of which is to increase the upper treble that is something they didn't do with their older R2 models. I know this not only from my hearing these iems from Flare, but they even sent to me the frequency response graph of the Flares Pro - I'll repost that later in this message both for reference and details in comparing to how the Flares Gold sounds I've asked my contact at Flare for a graph of the Flares Gold, but no response, at least not yet. By the way, I'll also ask for a graph of the Flares Jet.

Anyways, back to the issue of the FlaresPro. While I was very happy with them for the most part and was going to write a very positive, hopefully helpful review of them here on Head-Fi, when I got listening to a few other songs later in my test listening process, I noticed a very bad metallic sound to the cymbal/tambourine sections of certain songs, such as "Rivers of Belief" by Enigma. When I mentioned this here on Head-Fi, I received a variety of well-intentioned suggestions and ideas, among opinions, some stating they think it could be the song. While that was not the only song this issue was audible, and despite my not hearing this in the song/these songs on other iems, I listened again on other iems just to make sure it wasn't the music, and sure enough the music was fine. The problem is with the Flares Pro.

I considered there possibly being a defect in the FlaresPro, but then some others here in this thread stated hearing the same/similar issue. One very helpful contributor, barondla, mentioned trying a device from Ifi, which did help quite a bit, but then produced a significant volume issue when switching between modes and songs, something necessary to do as only a few songs needed this adjustment in minimizing the metallic presence during particular music.

Ultimately as a result of trial and error, along with listening and learning, and of course reading more frequency response graphs with detailed descriptions of meanings regarding the different frequency regions and such, besides a great deal of audio knowledge learning I've acquired - added to what I've already known in the few years I've studied audio technology, I figured the issue of the FlaresPro to being in the upper treble region, exactly where Flare increased to give them a "live" sound.

The problem with increasing the levels of upper treble, is the risk involved with sibilance - a greater risk than with lower treble, although a bit more specific in defining space. Despite this, I believe the risk with increasing the upper treble levels for that reward of more detailed space, simply isn't worth the hassle. When looking at frequency response graphs of several dozens, even hundreds of iems, very few of them take the risk. Usually the company will increase the lower treble instead, though sadly of most these companies - increasing the lower treble somehow makes them think its a good idea to recess the vocals as well, along with increasing the bass, which forms the awful, horrible, horrendous sounding "U" and "V" sound signatures.

Flare did increase the lower treble of the FlaesPro in comparison to their R2 models, but not where that would be the obvious component for the "live" sound. Rather, the upper treble is increased. Surely that is the more specific region for that purpose, but then again, it is the more risky area to increase sound levels. I'd much rather they increase the lower treble detail, along with keeping the great, forward upper mids they could do the same with, giving more detail and enlarging space reasonably and well-controlled, without the risks to certain music that is ruined by increases in upper treble.


Hopefully later today I can comment on the treble issue that you reported although my Gold will be just OOTB. Not sure if this would be a fair comparison though as my Pro has lots of hours thus far.

I'm very interested in whatever comparative results you have. Also, I'm looking forward to hearing more about the new Flares Jet from those here who are getting them.
 
Mar 1, 2018 at 2:24 PM Post #380 of 1,354
Oh, here is the frequency response graph of the FlaresPro for comparative reference between them and the FlaresGold, and also the FlaresJet too.
FLARES PRO Freq Resp.png


Notice the extended bump in the upper treble region. It is my belief that is where the "live sound" attempt is from, which is where the problem is for certain music. Reduce that, but place it in the lower treble region - with reasonable modification, then there will be plenty of detail, with enough added space without the risks.
 
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Mar 1, 2018 at 2:30 PM Post #381 of 1,354
I had the FlaresPro for a few weeks. I don't know if you remember my frequent reporting and updates here during that time about my experiences with the FlaresPro, but ultimately I was very happy with them in regards to the well-controlled, non-overblown bass, great, forward vocals, and plenty of detail, though Flare could have added more to the lower treble - especially for what I'm about to say...

Flare purposely wanted a "live" sound, which at least in my hearing can be done in two ways. One of which is to increase the upper treble that is something they didn't do with their older R2 models. I know this not only from my hearing these iems from Flare, but they even sent to me the frequency response graph of the Flares Pro - I'll repost that later in this message both for reference and details in comparing to how the Flares Gold sounds I've asked my contact at Flare for a graph of the Flares Gold, but no response, at least not yet. By the way, I'll also ask for a graph of the Flares Jet.

Anyways, back to the issue of the FlaresPro. While I was very happy with them for the most part and was going to write a very positive, hopefully helpful review of them here on Head-Fi, when I got listening to a few other songs later in my test listening process, I noticed a very bad metallic sound to the cymbal/tambourine sections of certain songs, such as "Rivers of Belief" by Enigma. When I mentioned this here on Head-Fi, I received a variety of well-intentioned suggestions and ideas, among opinions, some stating they think it could be the song. While that was not the only song this issue was audible, and despite my not hearing this in the song/these songs on other iems, I listened again on other iems just to make sure it wasn't the music, and sure enough the music was fine. The problem is with the Flares Pro.

I considered there possibly being a defect in the FlaresPro, but then some others here in this thread stated hearing the same/similar issue. One very helpful contributor, barondla, mentioned trying a device from Ifi, which did help quite a bit, but then produced a significant volume issue when switching between modes and songs, something necessary to do as only a few songs needed this adjustment in minimizing the metallic presence during particular music.

Ultimately as a result of trial and error, along with listening and learning, and of course reading more frequency response graphs with detailed descriptions of meanings regarding the different frequency regions and such, besides a great deal of audio knowledge learning I've acquired - added to what I've already known in the few years I've studied audio technology, I figured the issue of the FlaresPro to being in the upper treble region, exactly where Flare increased to give them a "live" sound.

The problem with increasing the levels of upper treble, is the risk involved with sibilance - a greater risk than with lower treble, although a bit more specific in defining space. Despite this, I believe the risk with increasing the upper treble levels for that reward of more detailed space, simply isn't worth the hassle. When looking at frequency response graphs of several dozens, even hundreds of iems, very few of them take the risk. Usually the company will increase the lower treble instead, though sadly of most these companies - increasing the lower treble somehow makes them think its a good idea to recess the vocals as well, along with increasing the bass, which forms the awful, horrible, horrendous sounding "U" and "V" sound signatures.

Flare did increase the lower treble of the FlaesPro in comparison to their R2 models, but not where that would be the obvious component for the "live" sound. Rather, the upper treble is increased. Surely that is the more specific region for that purpose, but then again, it is the more risky area to increase sound levels. I'd much rather they increase the lower treble detail, along with keeping the great, forward upper mids they could do the same with, giving more detail and enlarging space reasonably and well-controlled, without the risks to certain music that is ruined by increases in upper treble.




I'm very interested in whatever comparative results you have. Also, I'm looking forward to hearing more about the new Flares Jet from those here who are getting them.
With all do respect do you make your own product?Invented anything we know about?No so your in the majority then.I couldn't give a toss about graphs I use my ears
 
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Mar 1, 2018 at 2:54 PM Post #382 of 1,354
With all do respect do you make your own product?

No I don't, but not because of lack of knowledge/interest and fairness. I definitely would love to do this work, and I might even consider applying to work for Flare as an engineer. The problem is I am physically unable to work. I have a severely progressive neuropathy that also is a muscular atrophy condition that is destroying my nerves and literally "eating away" at my muscles, which I'm nearing incapability of walking - barely can stand up/keep my balance even, my breathing eventually will shut down where I'll either have to be on a surgical ventilator or death, and my hand/finger coordination is so bad I have to use a stylus to type, and cannot put together the small/fine parts needed to produce an iem.

Plus, I have chronic pain - of which I'm on the edge with my medication and the fear of such legal reform measures the government is taking due to the "opioid crisis/epidemic", in which if I lose my ability to get my pain medications, I'd have to contact the organization I'm involved with for my "exit". This is the article I was in back in 2009 when my health started its third or fourth major decline over the 35 years in my life : http://www.chicagotribune.com/sns-health-right-to-die-story.html

Note : Charcot Marie Tooth has mostly been ruled out as my diagnosis. Most doctors I've seen have admitted my condition is worse than most, I don't have a DNA genetic/family connection with CMT, and some of my symptoms either differ or are much more severe than most CMT sufferers.

On another perspective, I'm really not trying to place any judgement against Flare for what they do, nor to be critical of them, especially not trying to tell them what to do, etc. I'm only suggesting what I think would work better for the treble region, and certainly not just out of preference, but because certain songs sound very bad on the FlaresPro because of that upper treble. Otherwise, the FlaresPro sounds great in all the other areas.

Also to note, I'm really not an audio 'expert' by any means, but I do know and am learning more of audio as time goes by. Its a good distraction from the significant concerns of my health and alot of other issues pertaining to problems I've had being treated fairly due to my health that has hurt alot of the opportunities I should have had. I sure hope this doesn't mean that I shouldn't at least be trying to participate here and on other technology websites I go to.
 
Mar 1, 2018 at 2:59 PM Post #383 of 1,354
No I don't, but not because of lack of knowledge/interest and fairness. I definitely would love to do this work, and I might even consider applying to work for Flare as an engineer. The problem is I am physically unable to work. I have a severely progressive neuropathy that also is a muscular atrophy condition that is destroying my nerves and literally "eating away" at my muscles, which I'm nearing incapability of walking - barely can stand up/keep my balance even, my breathing eventually will shut down where I'll either have to be on a surgical ventilator or death, and my hand/finger coordination is so bad I have to use a stylus to type, and cannot put together the small/fine parts needed to produce an iem.

Plus, I have chronic pain - of which I'm on the edge with my medication and the fear of such legal reform measures the government is taking due to the "opioid crisis/epidemic", in which if I lose my ability to get my pain medications, I'd have to contact the organization I'm involved with for my "exit". This is the article I was in back in 2009 when my health started its third or fourth major decline over the 35 years in my life : http://www.chicagotribune.com/sns-health-right-to-die-story.html

Note : Charcot Marie Tooth has mostly been ruled out as my diagnosis. Most doctors I've seen have admitted my condition is worse than most, I don't have a DNA genetic/family connection with CMT, and some of my symptoms either differ or are much more severe than most CMT sufferers.

On another perspective, I'm really not trying to place any judgement against Flare for what they do, nor to be critical of them, especially not trying to tell them what to do, etc. I'm only suggesting what I think would work better for the treble region, and certainly not just out of preference, but because certain songs sound very bad on the FlaresPro because of that upper treble. Otherwise, the FlaresPro sounds great in all the other areas.

Also to note, I'm really not an audio 'expert' by any means, but I do know and am learning more of audio as time goes by. Its a good distraction from the significant concerns of my health and alot of other issues pertaining to problems I've had being treated fairly due to my health that has hurt alot of the opportunities I should have had. I sure hope this doesn't mean that I shouldn't at least be trying to participate here and on other technology websites I go to.
My apologies,I was gonna say get a life
 
Mar 1, 2018 at 3:13 PM Post #384 of 1,354
@Arysyn Read my 2 posts describing first impressions. Flares Pro sound much better after several hundred hours of use and with different foams (I'm using INAirs right now and it's ok - I'm at least as sensitive to this issues as you are - I think :) ). For long sessions I still prefer R2pro with Sabaj DA3 beacuse of their signature.
Without burn-in Flares GOLD are better than Flares PRO in upper midrange and in high freq. but upper midrange is still not as smooth and pleasant as with R2pro's. It can't be though, becasue of different sound signatures.
 
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Mar 1, 2018 at 6:02 PM Post #385 of 1,354
@Arysyn great post. I am also fairly sensitive to the same frequencies. From reading your original posts it was apparent the Flares Pro wouldn't be a good match for me. Thanks for saving me from buying and then having to return them.

I wonder how much Flare can tune the sound without modifying or even switching drivers? All materials have a resonance frequency and a breakup frequency. Beryllium is exotic and expensive. Wonder how many other driver choices Flare has? Doubt they build their own.

Sorry to hear of your very difficult health situation. Hope your situation improves and you find the perfect earphones and get to enjoy the music.
 
Mar 1, 2018 at 6:04 PM Post #386 of 1,354
My apologies,I was gonna say get a life

Well, apology accepted, but again - I never intended any rudeness nor demands of any kind towards Flare. My suggestions were not my trying to tell them what to do or not do, as I know and completely understand how they choose to make their product is their choice/their business. However, as a customer who has listened to the FlaresPro, I noticed the many good things and the one bad thing that unfortunately hurts the product in more ways than just preference. We all have our preferences and no product meets them all. Perhaps there is a bit more bass, a bit more recess to vocals, etc., and we mention them along with the good, as we are able to tolerate listening to the products we do.

The issue with the FlaresPro when I had it, is it was impossible for me to be comfortable listening to the certain songs the upper treble had the negative effect on. It was that harsh sounding. I certainly can tolerate some higher clashes of cymbals, sharpness on tambourines, etc, but this was beyond that. Still, I recognize why Flare did what they did choosing to tune it this way for songs that benefit from the "live" sound being produced that isn't based so much in the upper treble region.

Unfortunately for songs which are, they are quite difficult listening to on the FlaresPro. Therefore, my suggestion for Flare, which gain is not meant as demanding at all, is for Flare to tune more around the lower treble, see what they can produce from there in regards to detail and space where there isn't so much risk of the harshness as tuning the upper treble. It may be why most fr graphs of various iems I've seen reduce beyond mid treble, rarely do I see such an extended upper treble bump as there is on the Flares Pro.


@Arysyn Read my 2 posts describing first impressions. Flares Pro sound much better after several hundred hours of use and with different foams (I'm using INAirs right now and it's ok - I'm at least as sensitive to this issues as you are - I think :) ). For long sessions I still prefer R2pro with Sabaj DA3 beacuse of their signature.
Without burn-in Flares GOLD are better than Flares PRO in upper midrange and in high freq. but upper midrange is still not as smooth and pleasant as with R2pro's. It can't be though, becasue of different sound signatures.

I've heard various things about burn-in, but regardless I do regret not at least trying that with the FlaresPro, even if it didnt end up doing much for it. I was trying many other things of course, the closest to working being the Ifi device recommended to me by Barondla, which did manage to reduce hiss and harshness during those affected songs, but then produced an issue with volume level changes during mode switches necessary on the device while using it with the FlaresPro.

I sent an email to Flare a bit ago today, to the main address in case my contact went ill or on vacation. He had briefly replied the other day, but not with much information that I was hoping for, rather reminding me of their 30-day trial. While I appreciate they offer the trial, I'd still prefer to get the information important to me what I can in preventing me from disappointment and another return, especially knowing the loss of reselling a used product from a new - particularly a like-new, excellent condition product that is still in essence, used. I don't believe buyers ought to use a business as a lending library, and so I'm really trying rather to learn and understand the product first, then possibly purchase it. Returns really are better reserved for defects, or missing items, or missing parts, wording labels, etc.

To my listening, the R2A and the Flares Pro sounded quite similar in all the good ways that meet my preferences. Both had well-controlled bass that was minimal enough in quantity for me not to find at all overblown, nor did the bass intrude into the other areas of the sound. The FlaresPro had a bit more bass than the R2A, but nothing substantial. A heavier quantity of bass than the FlaresPro might become too much for me, but that level or less than the FlaresPro, is fine. And don't interfere in the other areas of the music either.

The aspect I love the most about the R2A and the FlaresPro, is the mids/vocals. Both sound forward and clear, like you're there. An area slightly above, the lower treble, where details and some stage presence I believe Flare really has the means to shine if they continue tuning it so well. The R2A might be a bit more forward with vocals, while the FlaresPro has a bit more detail, but they both are brilliant in this area, and anything similar to this, non-recessed greatness - matched with my bass preference, would make for an excellent iem. Just one more thing...

The upper treble.

The R2A is just fine with the upper treble. Maybe not so orchestra hall or arena-like spaciousness, but certainly much larger sounding than hearing someone singing alone in the shower. Perhaps a flat, even level treble in the mid to upper treble range would be fine. By looking at the FlaresPro fr graph, it looks like the FlaresPro treble would be just fine, if not for the upper extended treble hump. I really believe that is where the problem with the metallic sound in certain songs is. Not to say the lower treble couldn't be affected similarly, but its not as risky for the negative effects to occur. I would buy the Flares Pro again if only it didn't have this issue, because everything else about it, and the R2A without FlaresPro's treble issue, is great!
 
Mar 1, 2018 at 6:44 PM Post #387 of 1,354
@Arysyn I remember you were changing the Ifi for different songs. The volume difference is understandable since that is what it is designed to do. Trying to remember why you couldn't leave the device in all the time? Was there some type of sonic penalty?
 
Mar 1, 2018 at 6:53 PM Post #388 of 1,354
Well, I've also read various things about burn-in and after many, many tests I'm still sceptic. I'm sceptic because many people says it's night and day difference and that I've never experienced and I do not believe in that. Moreover it seems simply idiotic to me for manufacturer to release a product that performs only after for example 200-300 hours of use, even worse if it's a tour and we get brand new product for testing (and then everyone claims that it only shows it quality after 400h of burn-in). Campfire Vega fans ...

Still, there might be subtle changes after some burn-in for some products. And subtle changes in in-ear-monitors do matter.
There's also a "brain burn-in" and that's definitely true for me. There was a time when I had more than 20 IEMs and toggling them constantly was the worst idea in headphone testing ever. For me even A-B tests are useless. I prefer long-lasting tests of only one pair of in-ears on well-known set of songs, preferably after finding source with good synergy.

Nontheless after many hours of "burn-in", combined with changing foams to INAirs - Flares Pro became much more pleasant sounding with much less irritating upper midrange - even if the changes were small.
The most import thing though, are the tips (foams in this case) - these are crucial to get best performance and Flares tips are simply awful. The old audiophile foams sounded great but lasted about 24h, while costing like 25GBP - ridiculous. Silicon tips are useless sound-wise. Everyday foams sounds only ok but they're the least comfortable foams I've ever tried. And there's the new, improved audiophile foams - much more durable and of course worse sounding and way worse ergonomically.
 
Mar 1, 2018 at 7:02 PM Post #389 of 1,354
@Arysyn great post. I am also fairly sensitive to the same frequencies. From reading your original posts it was apparent the Flares Pro wouldn't be a good match for me. Thanks for saving me from buying and then having to return them.

I wonder how much Flare can tune the sound without modifying or even switching drivers? All materials have a resonance frequency and a breakup frequency. Beryllium is exotic and expensive. Wonder how many other driver choices Flare has? Doubt they build their own.

Sorry to hear of your very difficult health situation. Hope your situation improves and you find the perfect earphones and get to enjoy the music.

Thank you for the nice mentions, barondla. You've been helpful to me here also, which is really nice of you and also a good way not only for us, but for everyone here to consider trying to strive for on this site. After all, money is one thing everyone has to deal with in life, and helping others save money is one of those very kind, considerate things I think most people can understand the importance of, and is a great way to show care for another, especially in this very expensive, yet wonderful hobby/interest of personal audio.

I can't say for sure about Flare in a way of certainty regarding their tuning, but rather just from hearing the results of what they do, is obvious they spend more effort on their tuning, especially the midrange and vocals, than many other companies that appear to almost copy each other in their U/V-shaped presentation. Whereas, Flare actually has a very good, forward-sounding mids/vocals that on dynamic driver iems, is so rare, yet also amazing!

I believe if Flare were to give some tries at the tuning of the lower treble, with in mind for their objective everything else important to them in their tuning, they could get excellent results. One thing I would do, if I was able, is to get the bass like the R2A as well-controlled as possible not bleeding into anything, but supporting a slow increase upwards from sub bass to the lower treble, then becoming flat straight at the end of the lower treble. My view is the bass can add weight in the lower treble, go towards helping add oomph to male vocals, but not let bass thump override anything in any other way. I know this probably isn't the best description of details in what I'd do, but its good enough for the general idea.

The mid mids and upper mids I use to think should incline upwards into the lower treble. My older frequency response graphs shown this, which eventually I'll have redone for my updated preferences. The mid mids and upper mids ought to be flat even above the bass, inclined from the lower treble and the bass, like a very slow slope.

Then, say if I were working with Flare, I'd look at competitor HiFiMan's RE-800 in their mids, create a similar beginning concept, reducing the one treble spike, then adjust accordingly from there, but definitely not copying, at all! The reason I even mention the HFM iem, is I had it once and liked it for its treble, but the bass was a bit much and the vocals were just slightly recessed. If it were the opposite, it would have been near-perfect for me, as close to perfect it could get. However, if I were making an iem, I'd modify the treble spike for consumer satisfaction.

Actually, my thinking now is to have an enhanced lower treble that either matched the upper mids, or perhaps slightly above. I'd have to test out the measurements to make sure the upper treble isn't an issue. I wonder if a fairly straight line 5db above neutral from the mid mids through the rest of the tuning, including the upper treble would be too much in the upper treble range, and if so, where I'd start decreasing the tuning and by how much.

Whichever it would be, I know not to go experimenting with varying high degrees of upper treble. I probably could study alot about sound specifics trying to deliver a huge soundstage experience, but I'd still always prefer to stay safe with the sound keeping it close to neutral with very little variation increases.
 
Mar 1, 2018 at 7:30 PM Post #390 of 1,354
@Arysyn I remember you were changing the Ifi for different songs. The volume difference is understandable since that is what it is designed to do. Trying to remember why you couldn't leave the device in all the time? Was there some type of sonic penalty?

Its been awhile since I listened to the Ifi, since I ended up trading it for the R2A, but I think there was some change in the sound when not listening to the particular songs benefitted by it, almost as if their were an invisible format change, it was odd. When I can sometime soon, I'll look through my past posts and see what it was that caused the change. Then I'll post an update about it.


Well, I've also read various things about burn-in and after many, many tests I'm still sceptic. I'm sceptic because many people says it's night and day difference and that I've never experienced and I do not believe in that. Moreover it seems simply idiotic to me for manufacturer to release a product that performs only after for example 200-300 hours of use, even worse if it's a tour and we get brand new product for testing (and then everyone claims that it only shows it quality after 400h of burn-in). Campfire Vega fans ...

Still, there might be subtle changes after some burn-in for some products. And subtle changes in in-ear-monitors do matter.
There's also a "brain burn-in" and that's definitely true for me. There was a time when I had more than 20 IEMs and toggling them constantly was the worst idea in headphone testing ever. For me even A-B tests are useless. I prefer long-lasting tests of only one pair of in-ears on well-known set of songs, preferably after finding source with good synergy.

Nontheless after many hours of "burn-in", combined with changing foams to INAirs - Flares Pro became much more pleasant sounding with much less irritating upper midrange - even if the changes were small.
The most import thing though, are the tips (foams in this case) - these are crucial to get best performance and Flares tips are simply awful. The old audiophile foams sounded great but lasted about 24h, while costing like 25GBP - ridiculous. Silicon tips are useless sound-wise. Everyday foams sounds only ok but they're the least comfortable foams I've ever tried. And there's the new, improved audiophile foams - much more durable and of course worse sounding and way worse ergonomically.

Very interesting about burn-in. I've read a bit from people here about their beliefs regarding whether or not it exists, etc. I figure that its possible for sound change to occur, simply because with everything there is variation. Although, I've never tested it on products I own. The main definition of burn-in I know personally is the display burn-in that can occur on certain displays, such as on Plasma and OLED. Right now, there is some bad burn-in on my 55"-inch LG C6P from 2016 the store is willing to do a trade or refund, but I'm waiting until Spring for the new 2018 tvs to appear for sale. I'm not sure what I'm going to get.

The equivalent of a bad burn-in on iems, is an earpiece that doesn't work. I once bought the V-Moda ZN that wouldn't play on one of the sides, though I forget which side it was. They refunded me for it, and from there I began searching online, met an audio enthusiast friend who introduced me to Head-Fi, and I've learned alot about audio since. Still, I can't say that audio is a major interest of mine altogether, especially compared to video and cellular/wireless technology, but I do care about it to spend time every so often here and searching online about new advancements in audio.

So, I'm curious if there aren't certain steps involved when burning in an iem. I probably am a bit reluctant to it because with other technology, running anything a very long time has risks, though thats not to imply it necessarily would on an iem. Do manufacturers have any advice/warnings about burn in that either would instruct or to suggest misuse of normal operations to void a warranty, that sort of thing?
 

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