[LuckyNat]

Lol, back air chamber is going to make much larger sound differences than any change in metal. And if his back cap size differences are different than others, that is the worst QC I've ever seen.

I think it's pretty evident there is more going on than simply housing metal differences.

 
I was just about to strike out my post above after having misunderstood Idsy's post. 
 
Click on his photo and zoom in - they are both exactly the same height. Look at the threads and they too are exactly the same so I realise I don't know what he means by "threads are shallower".
 
Even if they WERE different, then I do think your reaction would be unwarented. These are not a commercial product yet! Still not two months after the Kickstarter finished! Any production method changes are completely valid AND desirable as the Kickstarter was specifically to fund their very first mass production run and it is only during full production that final tweaks can be made to assure quality control.
 
But that point is moot. I have also taken a photo to show how both of my R2A and R2Pro end caps are also exactly the same and with the same thread (if the thread was different in spec then they wouldn't fit in the other earphone..). I'll post it up in a second.

 

[sodesuka]

I don't know what's going on since I'm not well-versed in IEM-making (certainly far far less, that's an understatement lol, than the bunch at Flare's), but does that mean I can get R2A sound with R2Pro by just untightening the cap a bit? And consequently, people who have the R2A can have R2Pro sound by maybe adding a bit of cloth/material to the back of the cap to match the R2Pro vent size?

 

[Idsynchrono_24]

  I don't know what's going on since I'm not well-versed in IEM-making (certainly far far less, that's an understatement lol, than the bunch at Flare's), but does that mean I can get R2A sound with R2Pro by just untightening the cap a bit? And consequently, people who have the R2A can have R2Pro sound by maybe adding a bit of cloth/material to the back of the cap to match the R2Pro vent size?

That is the theory we're looking to explore. Yes. I'm gonna get in touch with James and see what I can suss out, and try performing some damping mods later

 

[LuckyNat]

  I don't know what's going on since I'm not well-versed in IEM-making (certainly far far less, that's an understatement lol, than the bunch at Flare's), but does that mean I can get R2A sound with R2Pro by just untightening the cap a bit? And consequently, people who have the R2A can have R2Pro sound by maybe adding a bit of cloth/material to the back of the cap to match the R2Pro vent size?

 
No because they he's mistaken. Both my end caps are exactly the same in dimension and it also looks from his photo that Idsy's are also exactly the same.
 
There should be no vent! It's designed to be fully sealed at the back and done up to a point at which it first seals.
 
Tightening it up further than that changes the rear chamber size and anyone who's looked at speaker design will know that changes resonance of the air, the driver movement and in these probably the equalisation of the pressure balanced design etc. I'd say that changes the sound, not making an air gap which isn't part of the design.. IMHO of course

 

[LuckyNat]

 
That is the theory we're looking to explore. Yes. I'm gonna get in touch with James and see what I can suss out, and try performing some damping mods later

 
Did you see my post above? Your photo makes them look exactly the same after zooming in. Only the different reflection between the black and the silver make the silver look larger as you can't see the black one's edges so well. Zoom in though and they are quite obviously exactly the same.

 

[LuckyNat]

All this fiddling and I'm kind of surprised no-one's actually changed the cable yet! Can see the solder points and I'm sure there must be head-fiers used to solding fine cables (I'm not - never works for me, think you have to scrape the wires or something before they will take to solder?)

 

[james444]

   
I can't see it makes a difference. If you tighten it the to the same torque, the space behind the driver and any possible air gap to the outside world will be exactly the same. The only difference will be the thickness of the end cap behind the driver and how much it sticks out. In terms of the thickness of material behind the driver, the mass and possible sonic attributes to the material behind the end cap is different anyway due to the density differences between materials..
 
Further, that your R2A end cap is shorter than the Pro cap doesn't mean a) everyone elses are, b) that it's a deliberate design feature rather than simply specific to that batch (and there will be many from that batch, so other's finding the same again won't proove anything either). It's possible they changed the cad file for the milling machine as a revision of the design as it is/was still an ongoing prototyping run, the basic design was finished but the exercise of mass production was and probably still is being tweaked and adjusted, the Kickstarter campaign providing the only funds for the first mass production run.
 
Then of course there are other variables people are noting which changes the sound like tip type, tip fit etc that sonic differences you experience might be from incidental things you've not controlled.

Lol, back air chamber is going to make much larger sound differences than any change in metal. And if his back cap size differences are different than others, that is the worst QC I've ever seen.

I think it's pretty evident there is more going on than simply housing metal differences.

 
As I understand it, the end caps are the same size. But his R2A's internal thread is more shallow, so the caps don't go in as far as on his R2Pros. Which leaves more air in the R2A's back chamber (provided the housings are equally long and driver placement is the same), which will make a sound difference.
 
But more importantly, if the R2A's cap doesn't go in deep enough to press the cable firmly against the O-ring, there might be some airflow through the cable slit, which will make an even bigger difference. That's why I'm curious whether Idsy's R2A cable might look less pinched.

 

[LuckyNat]

@james444 Here's a pic of the R2A so you can see the gap in the end cap:



So, in the interests of science I have unscrewed the R2Pro's cap and tried to screw it to the R2A, here's the result:



Will you look at that? It looks exactly the same.

 
So Idsy shows that they both screw in exactly the same..
 
The caps are the same size with the thread all the way to the end, the same amount of thread... and they screw in to exactly the same depth.  So the gap behind the driver will be the same for both.

 

[LuckyNat]

That's why I'm curious whether Idsy's R2A cable might look less pinched.

 
Less pinched than yours or whos? I thought you tried screwing yours in all the way and then said how it then pinched the cable.. or was that someone else? Mine aren't pinched looking in either set.

 

[Idsynchrono_24]

Yes, James' internal thread theory is what I was hinting at. I screwed the R2Pro cap onto the R2A to highlight that the difference wasn't in the end cap, but rather perhaps the internals of the housing instead. Here's a shot of the R2A and R2Pro lined up. You can see that the dimensions of the housings are exactly the same (same length/width). One cap screws in quite flush with the housing (Pro) while one has a clear and visible gap (R2A)



Sorry for the crummy pics. No macro mode on iPhone :l

 

[LuckyNat]

Yes, James' internal thread theory is what I was hinting at. I screwed the R2Pro cap onto the R2A to highlight that the difference wasn't in the end cap, but rather perhaps the internals of the housing instead. Here's a shot of the R2A and R2Pro lined up. You can see that the dimensions of the housings are exactly the same (same length/width). One cap screws in quite flush with the housing (Pro) while one has a clear and visible gap (R2A)



Sorry for the crummy pics. No macro mode on iPhone :l

 
Ok, now I get what you're saying - was confused by your words talking about the thread depth whilst showing the threads of the end caps which have the same depth..
 
I still think you're mistaken though!

 
Look down the end of both your R2As and R2PRos. The thread does not stop, the thread continues past the driver itself. The ONLY thing stopping that end cap from screwing in further is the washer/cable/driver itself.
 
Look down the end of both your R2As and R2Pros and you'll see that the driver/washer/cable sits at exactly the same depth too at about 4 threads down. BUT, what will stop the end cap first is the cable. Look at the gap between the cable and the end of the slot it sits in and again the depth is exactly the same.
 
In otherwords, everything is exactly the same. I'd suggest that for some reason you are finding it easier to screw one in than the other so you're ending up doing one tighter and further than the other.
 
 
* Forgot to add, that my assumptions are based on looking at mine so assume yours are the same? *

 

[LuckyNat]

Screwing my end caps into the opposite model, they both go in to the same depth, squashing the cable the same amount by feel.
 
Perhaps your washers are not sitting right or there's some detritus in the thread of one or even a burr in the thread.

 

[shotgunshane]

If you wouldn't mind, please take a pic of both side by side to see if they both close flush with the housing or is there is a mm or two in space. I think it's been shown the mm or two of space increases bass. If yours screw flush then perhaps we are looking at production QC issues versus designed differences.

 

[LuckyNat]

I'm trying.... light too low to show, phone won't see my laptop via bluetooth! Gah! I'll get a lamp out and usb cable.
 
If there are QC issues then it's on Idsy's not mine. That could be just a batch issue not a total QC issue. Still, if Idsy looks down the open ends of his he can quickly see if the thread stops or carries on past the driver. If so then it's not a QC but purely down to how he is screwing his end caps in or how the driver/cable/washer is aligned so is fouling the end cap. Or some bit of grit stuck in the thread, or the thread damaged.
 
Both my washers have the cable going though them too in case anyone has their washer sitting on top of the cable?

 

[LuckyNat]

Also, how far you screw the end cap in on mine is down to how hard you screw it! I can screw it all the way in but it crushes the cable so by feel I've left about .5 mm gap. I could leave a 1 mm gap and still feel resistance where it's hitting the cable already... so how much it's screwed in is not an absolute but down to subjective feel of how tight it seems to the touch.