First venture into the headfi space, wanting to do it right
Sep 27, 2023 at 9:37 PM Thread Starter Post #1 of 17

Dream3is3destiny3

New Head-Fier
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I've always loved high quality music and would joke when I was younger about being an audiophile after I first came across FLAC files when I was 13...

Fast forward to the present and I've finally made the leap by placing an order in for a pair of XTC 2.5 from JM Audio Editions.

Since making the decision, I've spent countless hours scouring these forums and other places to wrap my head around what is all needed for a truly quality headfi experience.

Right now I'm deciding what I am going to do regarding an amp/DAC stack and whether the right streamer or DAP will help in producing the best listening experience.

Hearing about others experience with finding truly magical moments with the proper synergy in their setup, makes me want to do it right from the outset.

Budget wise I'm will to spend upwards of $4k, all the while being mindful of diminishing returns.

I like a more warm, musical sound and am not looking for something overly analytical or sterile/clinical sounding.

I've been looking into various things like tube vs solid states, combos as opposed to stacks, brands ranging from Feliks, Gustard, Bryston, Geshelli, Topper, Schiit, Burson & Chord.

Any guidance at all would be phenomenal and especially those with experience with good setups for the JM Audio XTCs!!
 
Sep 27, 2023 at 9:53 PM Post #2 of 17
will you be running your system from a laptop or are you looking for a DAP and amp combo
 
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Sep 27, 2023 at 9:53 PM Post #3 of 17
Great place to be in the journey. I've heard a few of John's headphones, including earlier versions. And I also like a warmer and more musical sound.

For portable, you might like the Cayin RU6 or Questyle M15. Have not heard the RU7.

Desktop I have the iFi Pro iCan Signature, super versatile and non sterile amp.

But the dac is really the heart of my setup. Currently the Sonnet Morpheus, though I've owned the Pontus II and Ares before that. Difference with the Morpheus is stage width, at least the most noticeable difference.

Really recommend a separate dac and amp for upgrading down the line.

Aside from that, more headphones.
 
Sep 27, 2023 at 9:56 PM Post #4 of 17
it is my understanding that these are relatively easy to drive?
 
Sep 28, 2023 at 9:34 AM Post #6 of 17
Great place to be in the journey. I've heard a few of John's headphones, including earlier versions. And I also like a warmer and more musical sound.

For portable, you might like the Cayin RU6 or Questyle M15. Have not heard the RU7.

Desktop I have the iFi Pro iCan Signature, super versatile and non sterile amp.

But the dac is really the heart of my setup. Currently the Sonnet Morpheus, though I've owned the Pontus II and Ares before that. Difference with the Morpheus is stage width, at least the most noticeable difference.

Really recommend a separate dac and amp for upgrading down the line.

Aside from that, more headphones.
Thank you so much, this is excellent guidance! I'm looking into the iCan Signature/Morpheus stack now because I haven't been familiar with either.

And I am SURE once I get my fun out of these cans I'll be on the hunt for a different experience hahaha!
 
Sep 28, 2023 at 10:45 AM Post #7 of 17
Sep 28, 2023 at 1:41 PM Post #8 of 17
Right now I'm deciding what I am going to do regarding an amp/DAC stack and whether the right streamer or DAP will help in producing the best listening experience.
A DAP or dedicated streamer will def be an improvement over a general purpose computer or laptop as a source.
Hearing about others experience with finding truly magical moments with the proper synergy in their setup, makes me want to do it right from the outset.
I think all of us felt the same way when we first got into this hobby, but I can count on zero fingers how many of us actually achieved game over status after the first major shopping spree.
I think it's important to understand that this hobby is more about the journey rather than the destination. Along the way, personal tastes evolve, new headphones come out, new amps and DACs too and then before you know it, what you thought was your own personal audio nirvana suddenly gets turned on its head by a new or different sound that makes you sit back and realize how much you've been missing out on.
Budget wise I'm will to spend upwards of $4k, all the while being mindful of diminishing returns.

I like a more warm, musical sound and am not looking for something overly analytical or sterile/clinical sounding.
The Law of Diminishing returns is very real within this hobby and it's good that you know this from the get go.

A couple pointers to get you started on your quest for a warm, musical sound...as I have the same preference.

DACs: Generally speaking, a R2R DAC or a tube based DAC would most likely be where you'd want to begin your search. Delta Sigma DACs tend to sound cleaner, with sharper leading edges often come off as having better detail retrieval, whereas R2R DACs have a more rounded, warmer, smoother, more analog sound.
Now, that being said, not all DACs follow this rule. Some R2R DACs lean into a cleaner sound and some lean into the warmer side of things. The same goes for D/S DACs.

Amps: Again, generally speaking, tube amps tend to be where you will find that warm, lush, musical experience. There are lots of different tube amp designs out there: OTL, TC, SET, tube hybrid. In my experience the king of those designs for a warm, floaty, holographic sound would be an OTL amp. Unfortunately OTL amps only work well with high impedance headphones. The headphone you purchased is a low impedance/high sensitivity headphone and will sound like arse from an OTL amp.

For your headphone, you will want to focus on TC or SET or even a tube hybrid amp. I have much less experience with these amps than I do with OTLs, but from the ones I've tried, it's a very different sound. Again, cleaner, faster sound with less tube flavor than an OTL.

Regardless of which design you go with, the tubes themselves can play a massive role in the presentation you will hear. Tubes are a major rabbit hole and not a cheap rabbit hole either. It's not unusual to have as much cash invested into the tubes as you have invested into the amp itself.
When buying a new tube amp, they typically ship with very cheap, readily available, modern made and poor sounding tubes, typically of Chinese or Russian origin. The magic of tubes comes from NOS(New Old Stock) tubes, some of which that date back to before World War 2. Of course there is a very finite amount of tubes from the 30s-50s available, and everytime a pair of these tubes are sold, that's one less pair available for the rest of us, hence the often times ridiculous prices NOS tubes command.

Which brings me to my next point: research the prices of tubes prior to buying a tube amp. Not all tube amps use the same tube types. Some tube amps use esoteric tube types, of which there isn't a massive demand. Then there are other tube types, like 300B, 6SN7, 5998, etc...those are ubiquitous in many amps. Wanna gag? Check the prices of Western Electric or Elrog 300b tubes. Check the prices of Tung Sol Black Glass Round Plate 6SN7s. Check the prices for a matched pair of NOS Tung Sol 5998s.
So, again make sure you know which tube types any given amp you are considering uses, and then check prices. Sure, a circa 1960s RCA 6SN7 will be much cheaper than the black glass round plate Tung Sol, and you will definetly hear the difference too.

Final piece of advice I can give on tube amps and tubes is just because you bought the most expensive tubes available doesn't necessarily mean you will enjoy what you hear. Tube rolling is like cooking. Add too much garlic powder to a dish and you will ruin it. One needs to experiment with various tube combinations in order to find your own personal happy place. Fivre 6J5+ Western Electric 421a+ GEC U52 might sound killer on one headphone and total garbage on another headphone. That's two grand USD worth of tubes, BTW.

Solid state amps: This is much simpler. The sound you buy is the sound you get. For a warm, musical sounding solid state amp, I'd suggest reading up on Violectric amps. The v222, v281(discontinued, but available if you know where to look) and to a lesser degree, the v550.

Another, potentially cheaper option for a warm solid state amp can be found by using vintage stereo receivers from the 1970s(don't laugh) Unfortunately those again sound their best with high impedance dynamic driver headphones. Your headphone will get a bad case of bass bloat due to impedance mismatch on an old receiver.

Again, this hobby is a journey. There is so much to consider, learn and discover along the way that it's virtually impossible to nail it the very first time. If you really want to skip the journey, buy your gear and never return to Head-Fi and hope that your audiophile nervosa doesn't kick in.
 
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Sep 28, 2023 at 1:54 PM Post #9 of 17
It's great to read lots of reviews and opinions to give yourself an idea of what's out there, but I'd recommend buying what fits your budget and going from there. Some folks say DACs are the key piece, some say the amp, others, including me, say the headphones/speakers are the item that provides the biggest difference.

Having been in this hobby for a long time, I've learned to take reviews, professional or amateur, with a grain of salt, especially professional. They want to make money or get more gear so they're going to almost always have high praise for what they're reviewing.

That being said, good luck in your search and hold on to your wallet.
 
Sep 28, 2023 at 3:01 PM Post #10 of 17
They want to make money or get more gear so they're going to almost always have high praise for what they're reviewing.
As an independant reviewer, I agree with this, but something else to consider is some reviewers, myself included, do not do negative reviews. I've had several pieces of gear that I was supposed to review and for one reason or the other, that gear did not work well in my system and/or to my ears. When I first started doing reviews I used to do both positive and negative reviews, but doing a negative review is exhausting and speaking only for myself, I received no pleasure from trashing a product, even though I was being honest.

However, there are plenty of shill reviewers out there. When I first got into the hobby I fell victim to a bogus review on the Beyerdynamic T1

Here's an insightful video on negative reviews

 
Sep 28, 2023 at 3:05 PM Post #11 of 17
Sep 28, 2023 at 3:09 PM Post #12 of 17
Sep 28, 2023 at 3:11 PM Post #13 of 17
Hobby is less intimidating than 'obsession.'

Yeah, I have to admit, I was torn about whether to post my reaction or not :p

Some alternatives:

Black hole for money
#2 reason for divorce
Credit card company's Customer of the Year
(the list goes on)
 
Sep 29, 2023 at 8:57 PM Post #14 of 17
A DAP or dedicated streamer will def be an improvement over a general purpose computer or laptop as a source.

I think all of us felt the same way when we first got into this hobby, but I can count on zero fingers how many of us actually achieved game over status after the first major shopping spree.
I think it's important to understand that this hobby is more about the journey rather than the destination. Along the way, personal tastes evolve, new headphones come out, new amps and DACs too and then before you know it, what you thought was your own personal audio nirvana suddenly gets turned on its head by a new or different sound that makes you sit back and realize how much you've been missing out on...
This response was the vast wealth of knowledge I was yearning for when I made this post. Thank you ever so much!!

The deep dive on tube amps was everything I didn't know I needed to ask about hahaha, very appreciative of this information... already has me thinking about some more headphones with a higher impedance that could pair well with something like a Feliks hahaha


For these 32ohm closed back XTC 2.5 I'm going with the Violetric v222 & pairing it up with a Gustard A26. I'm hoping they'll be a nice balance for one another!

I've been seeing things about upgraded power supply's or cords, is this something I should focus on as well? Really curious still on how to properly configure the wiring and setup of amp to dac and what pitfalls to avoid.
 
Sep 29, 2023 at 9:07 PM Post #15 of 17
I've been seeing things about upgraded power supply's or cords, is this something I should focus on as well? Really curious still on how to properly configure the wiring and setup of amp to dac and what pitfalls to avoid.

There are two camps, one is they don't make a difference, the other is they do. I fall into the latter BUT I would get my house in order before looking at tweaks. Meaning focus on the amp, dac, headphones, ddc, etc. Once you're super happy with everything and have no desire to upgrade, then start thinking about cables and power supplies.

Those also don't hold their value like source gear or headphones.
 

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