First Impression: Antique Sound Labs' Twin Head Mark II
Mar 7, 2003 at 8:45 AM Thread Starter Post #1 of 99
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twinhead_wadia_from_right.jpg

[size=xx-small]Wadia 861 and Twin Head Mark II. Headphone is Sennheiser HD-600. Interconnects are Cardas Golden Reference, and headphone cable is also by Cardas.[/size][/align]

Okay, first things first....Nick Dangerous, prepare to see me take at least a nibble of crow. I used to tease NickMan about the tubes-in-headphone-hi-fi thing. Over the years, I've had some experience with what good tube gear can do in terms of driving speakers. My first foray into the world of tubed headphone amplification was with the first-generation Antique Sound Labs' MG Head. When it was working, it sounded very good for the price; however, even at its best, it was a good amp, with impressive price-performance, but one that didn't do much to separate itself from the solid state crowd in terms of general character. I did quite a bit of tuberolling with it, and, through this, was able to extract changes in tonal balance, alter its general presentation, and make minor adjustments in terms of headstaging ability -- but, again, no tube combination resulted in any aspect of performance that significantly differentiated it from solid state. In fact, I've since tried and owned several solid state amps that were more impressive (and, admittedly, more expensive), a few of which were substantially better in every way.

Needless to say, this first-generation MG Head experience had me wondering whether tubes in the world of headphone hi-fi really were worth the effort, and I've posted as much here in the forums. Additionally, two World of Headphones stops here in Detroit, and my experience with headphone hi-fi tubes ranged from not-so-great to great -- the overly syrupy Holmes-Powell; very pleasant, but not remarkably exciting, Cary; very impressive, but not astounding (to me), EAR HP-4; and, of course, the absolutely glorious Sennheiser Orpheus (I assumed it was more the Orpheus system’s headphone than its amp). NOTE: Before fans of these amps go jumping down my throat, I accept that the World of Headphones Tour, though insanely valuable for allowing us to experience so much different headphone hi-fi gear, isn't necessarily the ideal setting for critical listening. After these experiences -- the first-generation MG Head, and the World of Headphones Tour -- I had my doubts about whether tubed amplification was really capable of providing anything particularly special, anything truly different (than good-to-great solid state can) when it comes to headphone-amplifying (as opposed to speaker-amplifying, where, again, I’ve heard fundamental differences). I've had a few interesting exchanges with my friend Nick Dangerous on these forums, and even seriously suggested that maybe tube-lovin’ headphone hi-fi'ers simply dig the tube nostalgia, the fun(?) of tuberolling, and the warm glow of those pretty glass bottles. Well, about a couple of weeks ago, the Antique Sound Labs Twin Head Mark II arrived at my office. Based on the experiences I’ve just described, I wasn’t expecting much. But then....then I set up the Antique Sound Labs Twin Head Mark II and powered it up, and it quickly changed everything I previously thought about the role of tubes in headphone hi-fi -- and it made me wish I had Nick Dangerous’ phone number. Go ‘head, Nick, say that you told me so.
wink.gif


What I’ve written above is probably the rough, rough draft of the beginning of still another review that I’m going to have to write, but one that I’ll look forward to developing as I continue to listen to this piece of gear that has so far been phenomenal. It’s still early, and so I don’t want to say too much more yet, but I can say that the Twin Head Mark II is part of what might possibly be the best headphone hi-fi I’ve ever heard. Name a musical instrument, and if I’ve heard it through the Twin Head Mark II, it was more genuinely represented -- in terms of timbre, three-dimensionality, and sheer presence -- through it than any other headphone amp I’ve yet plugged my beloved Sennheiser HD-600 into. Same goes for any vocals I’ve heard through it. It is quiet (with careful, but easy-to-do, adjustment of two small adjustment knobs), and also capable of being very grand sounding, with the most realistic headstaging ability I’ve yet experienced from non-crossfeed headphone listening. And does it ever have touch.

As you’ve probably noticed, Joe Lau is quickly evolving Antique Sound Labs’ entire product line. It seems to be paying off already, with ASL’s new Hurricane monoblock (speaker-driving) amplifier receiving what might be the highest praise I’ve ever read Harry Pearson of The Absolute Sound heap on a piece of audio gear of any type. This Twin Head Mark II seems to be doing for me, so far, what the Hurricane did for Pearson. Even the MG Head has received a big design overhaul that has, as with this newest Twin Head, moved the power supply into its own completely separate chassis -- a very important move in my opinion. And, if this Twin Head Mark II is any indication, build quality is substantially improved since the days of the first-generation MG Head.

Any downsides to comment on at this early stage? Though the Twin Head Mark II has been absolutely glorious when driving the Sennheiser HD-600, it hasn’t been ideal with my Grado HP-1, sounding soft, and a bit blurred with it. I’m going to try tuberolling to see if there’s a combination I can find that’ll let the Twin Head Mark II do for the HP-1 what I know it can do for the HD-600. I haven’t yet tried this amp with my Etymotic ER-4S, but will be playing around with that combination beginning this coming weekend. The only other downside that comes to mind is a lack of crossfeed. As some of you may know, I’m a crossfeed kind o’guy, and stopped using it a couple weeks before the Twin Head Mark II arrived, in preparation for its arrival. I’m not over crossfeed, and don’t yet know if I could ever completely be. We’ll see -- if any amp could wean me off it, I'm guessing this could be the one. Again, though, i still find myself pining for crossfeed from time to time.

More comments about the Twin Head Mark II to come from me as I try more tube combos and headphones, leading to a full review. After some advice from Tash Goka (of Divergent Technologies) on which of the many tubes to roll first (between the Twin Head Mark II and its tubed power supply, there are ten tubes in total), I just picked up some NOS Amperex Bugle Boy 6DJ8's from a local tube seller to try in place of the stock JJ E88CC tubes. Thanks to Tash and Joe for answering all of my many questions so far.

Nick Dangerous, buddy, if you’re reading this: I think I’m starting to get the headphone hi-fi tube thing now; and, yeah, you told me so. Oh, and if you put together another tuberolling pack that would be compatible with this amp, please, man, sign me up!
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twinhead_straight_on.jpg
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The Twin Head Mark II (amp on the left, power supply on the right).[/size][/align]
 
Mar 7, 2003 at 9:02 AM Post #2 of 99
Thanks for the impression, jude, sounds like one awesome amp. Looking forward to further impressions.

[size=xx-small]Starts saving for new ASL Twin Head Mark II
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[size=xx-small]EDIT: Testing signature[/size]

 
Mar 7, 2003 at 9:04 AM Post #3 of 99
Quote:

Originally posted by jude
It’s still early, and so I don’t want to say too much more yet, but I can say that the Twin Head Mark II is part of what might possibly be the best headphone hi-fi I’ve ever heard. Name a musical instrument, and if I’ve heard it through the Twin Head Mark II, it was more genuinely represented -- in terms of timbre, three-dimensionality, and sheer presence -- through it than any other headphone amp I’ve yet plugged my beloved Sennheiser HD-600 into. Same goes for any vocals I’ve heard through it.


dang that says alot, if I'd had the money I would so try to get a taste of Tubes, but i'm stuck on solid state right now
tongue.gif
. Can't wait for more details, Jude
wink.gif


BTW Just curious but how much does the will the Twin Head Mark II be sold for?
 
Mar 7, 2003 at 9:08 AM Post #5 of 99
[size=xx-small] Quote:

Originally posted by zbuddah
....BTW Just curious but how much does the will the Twin Head Mark II be sold for?


[/size]I believe it's going to retail for $1895.00.[size=xx-small] Quote:

Originally posted by CRESCENDOPOWER
Well, I guess those tubes do more than just light up a room.
biggrin.gif


[/size]Hehe, yeah, they radiate quite a bit of heat, too.
 
Mar 7, 2003 at 9:12 AM Post #6 of 99
Jude, you non-believer you....

My initial MG Head OTL with Nick's tube rolling, 6 pack, experience was the single most experience which made my 30 year Audio experienced ears start to look back at tubes. Once heard, there's no lookin', or listening, back. It is simply Back to the Future....

Since selling my original MG Head OTL to another head-fi member I've simply missed it. That said, I finally bought another MG Head OTL MkI (final version) and I'll be damned if it isn't much improved versus my previous unit with the same tube rolling kit.

So... I have no qualms in believing that the TwinHead 2 is a superior unit... I look forward to hearing some more details on this preamp/headamp.
 
Mar 7, 2003 at 9:19 AM Post #7 of 99
Aw ****... $1900 is just too much for me. Heck, can't I buy TWO or THree RKV2s for the same price??? How about almost a pair of Cary SLP88s with nice headphone amps for the same price?

Dang... I hope Joe just isn't pricing his Twinhead outta the Head-Fi new unit market? As for me... I'll wait till it is available used for $1200 or so...?
 
Mar 7, 2003 at 10:04 AM Post #8 of 99
Tubes indeed, yes indeedy. They are special and wonderful. Debates always surround them: Are they better? Worse? Obsolete? How do they work? Honestly, I am far from having all the answers. The only thing I know for certain is that my ears love the way they sound. That is all that ultimately matters.

I'm glad (and envious) of the fact that you have had the opportunity to audition the Twin Head MKII. At the semi-recent Head-Fi meet at my place, the original Twin Head was my personal pick of the lot, barely edging out the RKV due to its comparatively soft highs... so your impressions mirror my own. Twin Head = awesome.

The Twin Head uses a pair of 2A3 tubes as its primary power source... the same type of tube that inhabits my Bottlehead Paraglow monoblocks. I've had plenty of time to listen to the Oris powered with 2A3's and can confirm that it is a very fine sounding tube. I believe Joe supplies the Twin Head with Chinese "Valve Art" 2A3's which are cheap and sound great (I use 'em). Swapping in Sovtek 2A3's will lend more bass and higher frequency extension at the expense of a little midrange warmth. Sovteks have been fairly described as 'steely', 'sterile', and 'dry' sounding tubes... and that's exactly what I heard. I didn't like them very much. Ultimately, I recommend that you try the TJ 300B meshplate in the Twin Head. It's a 300B tube with a 2A3 2.5v mesh filament installed inside. Upgrading to the TJ's should take your Twin Head to another level of mind blowing performance. Doc Bottlehead sells them.

With all the success Joe has been earning, I'm wondering if he will eventually release a headphone amp based upon the 45 or the 71A tube. Like the 2A3, both types deliver a ghostly realistic, spine-tingling, "this is real" type of experience. Emission Labs currently produces a 45 tube that exceeds exotic NOS 45's in performance. No more hunting for Telefunkens, Mullards, and Sylvanias! This is SERIOUSLY awesome, and has spurred me to convert my Paraglows to use the Emission Labs solid plate 45 tube. They also make a solid plate (and mesh) 2A3 which I have not yet heard.

Jude-mon, come this October I'll have the Oris set up good and proper with AER drivers, 6N1P driver stages, a MENSA DI/O, and a pair of Emission Labs 45's among other new tweaks. Come by anytime you're in the area and I'll put you up for a few nights.

FYI, I may be known as Mr. Tuberrific around these parts, but props go to Hirsch for being the ultimate tube rolling madman. He has just about rolled 'em all. I've seen pictures of the senseless tube carnage on his bed...
 
Mar 7, 2003 at 10:48 AM Post #9 of 99
Jude,

Just wondering, what version of the Twinhead MkII are you playing with? The CES proto or a production unit?

Also if possible could you post impression of it as a preamp and also include some info on the external psu?
 
Mar 7, 2003 at 2:25 PM Post #10 of 99
Quote:

Originally posted by jude
Well, about a couple of weeks ago, the Antique Sound Labs Twin Head Mark II arrived at my office. Based on the experiences I’ve just described, I wasn’t expecting much. But then....then I set up the Antique Sound Labs Twin Head Mark II and powered it up, and it quickly changed everything I previously thought about the role of tubes in headphone hi-fi --


Welcome to my world
smily_headphones1.gif
The thing is, those changes reoccur on a regular basis. Every now and then I get the silly notion that I'm starting to get a handle on tubed amplification, then something comes along that puts me right back at the beginning.

Quote:

What I’ve written above is probably the rough, rough draft of the beginning of still another review that I’m going to have to write, but one that I’ll look forward to developing as I continue to listen to this piece of gear that has so far been phenomenal. It’s still early, and so I don’t want to say too much more yet, but I can say that the Twin Head Mark II is part of what might possibly be the best headphone hi-fi I’ve ever heard. Name a musical instrument, and if I’ve heard it through the Twin Head Mark II, it was more genuinely represented -- in terms of timbre, three-dimensionality, and sheer presence -- through it than any other headphone amp I’ve yet plugged my beloved Sennheiser HD-600 into. Same goes for any vocals I’ve heard through it. It is quiet (with careful, but easy-to-do, adjustment of two small adjustment knobs), and also capable of being very grand sounding, with the most realistic headstaging ability I’ve yet experienced from non-crossfeed headphone listening. And does it ever have touch.


Now this is an amp I want to hear. Do you know if those knobs alter feedback, or are they for bias adjustment?

Quote:


Any downsides to comment on at this early stage? Though the Twin Head Mark II has been absolutely glorious when driving the Sennheiser HD-600, it hasn’t been ideal with my Grado HP-1, sounding soft, and a bit blurred with it. I’m going to try tuberolling to see if there’s a combination I can find that’ll let the Twin Head Mark II do for the HP-1 what I know it can do for the HD-600. I haven’t yet tried this amp with my Etymotic ER-4S, but will be playing around with that combination beginning this coming weekend. The only other downside that comes to mind is a lack of crossfeed. As some of you may know, I’m a crossfeed kind o’guy, and stopped using it a couple weeks before the Twin Head Mark II arrived, in preparation for its arrival. I’m not over crossfeed, and don’t yet know if I could ever completely be. We’ll see -- if any amp could wean me off it, I'm guessing this could be the one. Again, though, i still find myself pining for crossfeed from time to time.


I've got the same issue with the Supra amp, sort of. However, the designer built in a variable feedback circuit that can cure the problem. I'm not sure how the Twinhead is designed, but some designers use minimal gain stages just to keep the signal as clean as possible. The HP-1 is much less efficient than anything but the K-1000. That kind of demand on the system can require a higher damping factor than the amp normally has. Feedback lowers the output impedance and increases the damping factor, and the HP-1 settles down. Tube rolling might do it also, particular if the tubes in use have a slow response.

Quote:


More comments about the Twin Head Mark II to come from me as I try more tube combos and headphones, leading to a full review. After some advice from Tash Goka (of Divergent Technologies) on which of the many tubes to roll first (between the Twin Head Mark II and its tubed power supply, there are ten tubes in total), I just picked up some NOS Amperex Bugle Boy 6DJ8's from a local tube seller to try in place of the stock JJ E88CC tubes. Thanks to Tash and Joe for answering all of my many questions so far.


I'm using Amperex Bugle Boy 6DJ8's in a Melos, and have also tried them in the Moretto HAP-03 and Dusty Chalk's EMP. IMO these tubes are overrated (but maybe I haven't found the good ones yet). PM me, and I'll see if I can find a couple of good pairs of 6922/7308 types for you to sample.
 
Mar 7, 2003 at 3:22 PM Post #11 of 99
See,I told you so.I don't know if that is the unit I heard at CES.That one had some shipping damage to the volume control and selector switch.BTW,if this is the prototype please,please send it back in time for it to be loaned for the Chicago meet
biggrin.gif
.

I strongly affirm,after hearing all the tube headamps,at the Headroom tour,at various high-end shows and in my own systems,that the Twinhead MarkII is the very best tubed headamp.There is no contest and the losers are far behind.

Did I ask nicely enough that you send that back in time if it is the only review unit?
biggrin.gif


If you really want an improvement in the overall sound quality try swapping the 2A3 tubes for a set of Sovteks.This will make the biggest difference when driving the AKG K1000 but should sound good with most other phones as well.Joe did tell me at CES that the Twinhead was not the very best sounding with Grado phones but the MG32 should fit the bill just fine.
 
Mar 7, 2003 at 3:28 PM Post #12 of 99
Sorry,I noticed Nick recommend the Sovteks too.The differences will be more obvious on the Twinhead since it uses the 2A3 in the driver stage.I don't know about using the 300Bs in the Twinhead.I would ask Joe first.I had some serious problems with the first generation Twinhead I had when I swapped in a set of WE300Bs.I happen to like the Sovteks 2A3s a lot and use them in my ASL Tulip amps to amazing effect.
 
Mar 7, 2003 at 5:15 PM Post #13 of 99
Hi Jude, thanks for the impressions, I've been very curious about the revised Twinhead. Can you post any pictures? Also, you mentioned you didn't think they tackled Grados that well. I know it's hard to say, but do you think this has anything to do with their low impedence, or is it just a weird interaction with the Grados? As I recall vaguely, wasn't Joe having trouble with low-impedence cans on the first Twin Head? Do you have access to some Sony CD3K's or some of the better Audio Technicas to test performance with low-impedence cans? A lot of requests, I know! Thanks.

Mark
 
Mar 7, 2003 at 6:00 PM Post #15 of 99
[size=xx-small][size=xx-small] Quote:

Originally posted by Nick Dangerous
Tubes indeed, yes indeedy. They are special and wonderful. Debates always surround them: Are they better? Worse? Obsolete? How do they work? Honestly, I am far from having all the answers. The only thing I know for certain is that my ears love the way they sound. That is all that ultimately matters.

I'm glad (and envious) of the fact that you have had the opportunity to audition the Twin Head MKII. At the semi-recent Head-Fi meet at my place, the original Twin Head was my personal pick of the lot, barely edging out the RKV due to its comparatively soft highs... so your impressions mirror my own. Twin Head = awesome.

The Twin Head uses a pair of 2A3 tubes as its primary power source... the same type of tube that inhabits my Bottlehead Paraglow monoblocks. I've had plenty of time to listen to the Oris powered with 2A3's and can confirm that it is a very fine sounding tube. I believe Joe supplies the Twin Head with Chinese "Valve Art" 2A3's which are cheap and sound great (I use 'em). Swapping in Sovtek 2A3's will lend more bass and higher frequency extension at the expense of a little midrange warmth. Sovteks have been fairly described as 'steely', 'sterile', and 'dry' sounding tubes... and that's exactly what I heard. I didn't like them very much. Ultimately, I recommend that you try the TJ 300B meshplate in the Twin Head. It's a 300B tube with a 2A3 2.5v mesh filament installed inside. Upgrading to the TJ's should take your Twin Head to another level of mind blowing performance. Doc Bottlehead sells them.

With all the success Joe has been earning, I'm wondering if he will eventually release a headphone amp based upon the 45 or the 71A tube. Like the 2A3, both types deliver a ghostly realistic, spine-tingling, "this is real" type of experience. Emission Labs currently produces a 45 tube that exceeds exotic NOS 45's in performance. No more hunting for Telefunkens, Mullards, and Sylvanias! This is SERIOUSLY awesome, and has spurred me to convert my Paraglows to use the Emission Labs solid plate 45 tube. They also make a solid plate (and mesh) 2A3 which I have not yet heard.

Jude-mon, come this October I'll have the Oris set up good and proper with AER drivers, 6N1P driver stages, a MENSA DI/O, and a pair of Emission Labs 45's among other new tweaks. Come by anytime you're in the area and I'll put you up for a few nights.

FYI, I may be known as Mr. Tuberrific around these parts, but props go to Hirsch for being the ultimate tube rolling madman. He has just about rolled 'em all. I've seen pictures of the senseless tube carnage on his bed...


[/size][/size]Nick, thanks for the feedback and suggestions. I'll try as many tubes as I can while its here, and report back on the results, man. You didn't say it, so I'll say it again: you told me so.
wink.gif
[size=xx-small] Quote:

Originally posted by evilcthul
....Just wondering, what version of the Twinhead MkII are you playing with? The CES proto or a production unit?

Also if possible could you post impression of it as a preamp and also include some info on the external psu?


[/size]It's the CES proto. Tash told me that the production version will be different in the following ways: (a) the production unit will come with tube cages, and (b) its OTL switch will be placed more conveniently.

The power supply ("PS1-Dual regulated power supply for Headphone/Pre-amplifiers" is what the print on it says), consists of what look like two big transformer towers, and one very large one. It has six tubes: two 6L6's, two 12AX7's, and two 5AR4's.

I haven't yet used the Twin Head and a preamp, but will try to get it to a store and/or a friend's house with a better speaker-driving rig than my rather undeserving simple home theater setup, which is currently the only speaker set I drive in here at the time.[size=xx-small] Quote:

Originally posted by Hirsch
....Do you know if those knobs alter feedback, or are they for bias adjustment?....


[/size]HirschMahn, I do not know if it's bias or feedback they alter, but will find out for you if Joe doesn't post here himself to answer first.[size=xx-small] Quote:

Originally posted by Hirsch
....I'm using Amperex Bugle Boy 6DJ8's in a Melos, and have also tried them in the Moretto HAP-03 and Dusty Chalk's EMP. IMO these tubes are overrated (but maybe I haven't found the good ones yet). PM me, and I'll see if I can find a couple of good pairs of 6922/7308 types for you to sample.


[/size]Thanks, Hirsch. I might just have to drop you a PM, or give you a call about that.[size=xx-small] Quote:

Originally posted by Tuberoller
See,I told you so.I don't know if that is the unit I heard at CES.That one had some shipping damage to the volume control and selector switch.BTW,if this is the prototype please,please send it back in time for it to be loaned for the Chicago meet
biggrin.gif
....


[/size]Yes, this is the CES unit. The volume and source selector controls were repaired, and here 'tis. Regarding the Chicago meet: I'll get in touch with Tash about this (and the upcoming Detroit meet, too).[size=xx-small] Quote:

Originally posted by Tuberoller
....If you really want an improvement in the overall sound quality try swapping the 2A3 tubes for a set of Sovteks.This will make the biggest difference when driving the AKG K1000 but should sound good with most other phones as well.Joe did tell me at CES that the Twinhead was not the very best sounding with Grado phones but the MG32 should fit the bill just fine.


[/size]Thanks for the suggestion on the 2A3 -- I'll try to get hold of those Sovteks. The TJ's that Nick mentioned look to be quite expensive. Regarding driving the Grado HP-1: I'm hoping to find a tube set that'll help in this regard -- you think the Sovteks might be the ticket, Tuberoller? I'd really like to eventually be able to say that the Twin Head Mark II was able to drive the HP-1 as nicely as the HD-600, and hope that there's a tube combination that'll do that.[size=xx-small] Quote:

Originally posted by markl
Hi Jude, thanks for the impressions, I've been very curious about the revised Twinhead. Can you post any pictures? Also, you mentioned you didn't think they tackled Grados that well. I know it's hard to say, but do you think this has anything to do with their low impedence, or is it just a weird interaction with the Grados? As I recall vaguely, wasn't Joe having trouble with low-impedence cans on the first Twin Head? Do you have access to some Sony CD3K's or some of the better Audio Technicas to test performance with low-impedence cans? A lot of requests, I know! Thanks.

Mark


[/size]Mark, I'll try to posts some pics this weekend.

Regarding impedance: I do think it has something to do with the impedance, but I'll talk to Joe and/or Tash more about that. With the HP-1's, I've only tried the stock tubes so far, and I did try both the OTL and the transformer modes. I do not have access to the MDR-CD3000 at this time, nor do I have easy access to the Audio-Technica line of headphones -- I'll try to figure something out. More immediately, I do have access to the Grado SR-80, which, at 32 ohms, represents another low-impedance headphone, so I'll also try the SR-80 this weekend, or next week.[size=xx-small] Quote:

Originally posted by eric343
Sounds cool
biggrin.gif


Now you have another, better amp with which to listen to all those sources and cables on...
evil_smiley.gif


[/size]So far, I've only tried the Twin Head with two sources, both very good: the Wadia 861, and the Bel Canto DAC2 with the SCD-C333ES as transport and SACD player. The only cables I've used in combination with the Twin Head Mark II so far are the Cardas Golden Reference interconnect (which I put in first, since it has been consistently the strongest performing interconnect I've used overall -- I'll try the Neutral Reference next), the Acoustic Zen Tsunami power cord (plugged into the Twin Head's power supply), the Cardas Golden Reference Power (plugged into the Wadia), and the i2Digital X60 coaxial digital cable between the SCD-C333ES and Bel Canto DAC2. I'll try cable-rolling whatever other cables I can get my hands on while the Twin Head's here, but I'll probably play with different tubes first and foremost.
 

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