[fewtch]

Quote:

Originally Posted by JaZZ If «analytical» means inorganic overemphasis of detail, then it's not -- to my ears it's just very precise and transparent. I'd say the DT 880 has more of a slightly artificial glare as far as I recall.

Basically it's gone away with burn-in (or become unnoticeable), but the treble is slightly "overdetailed" to the point of exposing treble flaws perhaps more than it should. On the positive side, the treble energy can give the headphones a very lively, involving character.

Quote:

Of course the high level of detail makes it sensitive to recording and electronics flaws. A «digital» sounding source will not sound good. And since we all (more or less) listen to notoriously imperfect digital source devices, there's a certain risk of the K 701 to sound somewhat analytical -- combined with a sonic balance slightly on the bright side of neutral. But not more so than with e.g. the DT 880. On the contrary, I even perceive it as somewhat more organic sounding than the HD 650 with some recordings. .

Sounds like it may be similar to DT880 then in treble... thanks.

P.S. in fact I get the impression that it actually may sound a lot like the DT880, perhaps with punchier bass and different headstage.

 

[JaZZ]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Atropos can you please define transparency and low-level detail as well? and can you really hear the guitar pick hitting the string with the K701? I cant hear this with the HD650 and Aria.

Transparenz: Fähigkeit, auch in dichtesten Passagen den Überblick zu wahren und leise Töne unter lauteren hörbar zu machen. Auflösung: feines Korn, Fähigkeit, Töne und Klangfarben in feinsten Nuancen wiederzugeben.

Für das Anschlagen der Gitarrensaite müsste ich die Aufnahme und die Stelle kennen, die du meinst. Vielleicht gibt auch die Aufnahme nicht mehr her; aber schon wegen der helleren Abstimmung sollte der K 701 hier Vorteile haben.
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[JaZZ]

Quote:

Originally Posted by fewtch ...I get the impression that it actually may sound a lot like the DT880, perhaps with punchier bass and different headstage.

Yes, the similarity is undeniable. It doesn't have a treble hump though, rather a smoother emphasis between 2 and 3 kHz, I'd guess.
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[Mastergill]

Quote:

Originally Posted by JaZZ ... I've always been aware of the HD 650's imperfections and have regularly expressed them now and then, namely the roll-off in the bass and the slightly subdued treble as well as the slight (lower-)midrange emphasis. ...[/COLOR]

You see, JaZZ, for me the HD-650 was/is perfect, really and i'm quite exigent for my music reproduction, you can trust me. So the K701 had to be more than perfect LOL!

I don't think you've explored all the HD-650's possibilities yet. The Aria is probably a very good amp but i'm sure you know it's not the last word about high-end headphone amplification. I told you that because i can't imagine a better bass reproduction from an headphone. If there's a roll-off it's certainly below any lowest note you'll find on most recordings. It takes a very very good amp (and source too, but i'm sure your McCormack is pretty good) to reproduce accurately real deep bass, hence the 'usual' comment about bloated HD-650's bass...which is a freaking joke...seriously.

I can't imagine a flatter phone than the HD-650. Mid-bass hump from HD-600 is gone. There's also all the treble energy when the recording ask for, it's just very slightly dark, that's true. But it's exactely like some good British monitors that i love. Neutral (very) slightly dark. This is deliberate from the designer, so you can have very long monitoring session without pain to the ears. All the treble informations you need is there, it's just not forwarded like with so many other design, which BTW as you know can give a false impression of transparency.

 

[Atropos]

Quote:

Originally Posted by JaZZ Transparenz: Fähigkeit, auch in dichtesten Passagen den Überblick zu wahren und leise Töne unter lauteren hörbar zu machen. Auflösung: feines Korn, Fähigkeit, Töne und Klangfarben in feinsten Nuancen wiederzugeben. Für das Anschlagen der Gitarrensaite müsste ich die Aufnahme und die Stelle kennen, die du meinst. Vielleicht gibt auch die Aufnahme nicht mehr her; aber schon wegen der helleren Abstimmung sollte der K 701 hier Vorteile haben. .

danke - thanks !

 

[sacd lover]

The akg 701 arrived early this am. I have about three hours with them using three different Singlepower tube amps. The k701 is absolutely awesome. The pair I have has 150+ hours of use per the seller and there seems to be no evidence of the slight flaws people had mentioned .... atleast so far.

This headphone has plenty of tight, well defined bass and a good amount of impact. The bass is about on par with the senn 600/ cardas from my impressions. The senn does have a little more bloom or residual warmth in the mid to upper bass but the bass is quite similar; which is very good.

The mids are clean and clear but have more body than I expected. I am never sure exactly what people interpret as neutrality but the headphone seems spot on to me. The senn 650 is to warm, thick and somewhat congested in the upper bass/ lower mids in comparison ..... to me. The beyer dt880 thats been much discussed lately is somewhat thinner and slightly sterile sounding through the mids in comparison ..... again to me. The k701 has a slightly more forward midrange than my senns. But the midrange is still dimensional and relaxed compared to the more forward headphones.

The treble is just excellent with noticeably more extension than the senn 600/650 and no peakiness or brittleness like I hear with the dt 880. The 701's treble is grit and grain free like the senn 600/650 and sounds naturally detailed ..... not overly detailed. The 701 also exhibits the best coherency of any phone I know of. The sound spectrums blend together almost perfectly with no noticeable emphasis in any frequency band. The 701's linearity is almost as good as the dt880 through the mids but doesnt have the treble spike/ emphasis that eventually ruined the dt 880's presentation for me.

I was always disappointed that the dt880 was so good except for the treble flaw that makes the presentation slightly to bright and treble prominent. I always find the 880's treble to detailed and overly resolving in comparison to the 880's midrange ..... which made the sound unbalanced and brittle to me. I actually think the dt880 is a very good headphone but the 880's flaw happens to be the one I am most sensitive to. If I had a way to equalize the treble spike out I would have never parted ways with the dt880. Fortunately, the k701 avoids this problem completely.

So in summary, if the k701 isnt better than the senn 650 its every bit as good. I have heard the senn 650 sound phenomenally good run balanced so I am hesitant to proclaim the k701 my personal favorite. But run single ended I would take the k701 in a heartbeat. I also find the k701 a step above the dt880 in coherency, dynamics and my personal highest priority ..... treble quality.

I like the k701 so well I have already ordered another new one from TTVJ. When I talked to Todd he told me he has ordered 100 .... and has had 80 orders placed. With Todd price matching the $279 low price I would seriously consider getting one now when the price is low.

This headphone is somewhat expensive normally but worth every penny. At the discounted price the k701 is a steal.

EDIT: I forgot to say these headphone dont look nearly as bad as I expected. The k701's are extremely comfortable too.

 

[amartignano]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cris Hi It's too early for me to tell right now. I only listened 3h and tried to get a good overview and a first impression. I will - of course - continue to keep an eye on the bass and tell you. As far as I can tell, I like the combo and and bass has enough impact for me.

Thanks

Happy listenings

Andrew

 

[Borat]

Quote:

Originally Posted by sacd lover The akg 701 arrived early this am....

I tried to do a summary of these fine headphones in the socal meet thread, but you just did a fantastic job articulating my thoughts better than I ever could above. I also had the HD600 + Cardas combo that I know you use as a reference. How do you feel the new K701's stack up against them?

BTW, I also tried DigiPete's HighFlyin9 silver plated copper recabled DT880's at the meet and it seemed to tame much of the peaky high end that many complain about in the stock DT880's. However, the stock K701 seemed to match them, if not best them (hard to tell in meet settings) so at this point I would opt for the AKG's between the two.

My only complaint is they don't come with a storage case like the HD600/650 and DT880.

 

[amartignano]

Quote:

Originally Posted by sacd lover The treble is just excellent with noticeably more extension than the senn 600/650 and no peakiness or brittleness like I hear with the dt 880.

That's very promising, as the only thing I would "correct" in the DT880 is some "brittle" in the highs (although it ads a bit fun in the reproduction without lousing overall corretness and balance, imho).

Jazz, what do you think about treble comparing K701 and DT880? (I don't remember if you have already mentioned this... if it's so... sorry, can you repeat?

).

bye
Andrew

 

[NotJeffBuckley]

JaZZ, do you mind if I PM you? I'd like to pick your brain about different headphones' relative qualities pending a purchase. I've been thinking, and I'm worried the AKG K701 isn't exactly what I'm looking for - you've had many headphones, it would seem, and despite your predilection for visual adjectives (

) I don't have much trouble understanding what you mean when you talk about headphones' relative merits. Please, if you don't mind, let me know and I'll shoot off a message to start things off.

 

[fewtch]

Quote:

Originally Posted by amartignano That's very promising, as the only thing I would "correct" in the DT880 is some "brittle" in the highs (although it ads a bit fun in the reproduction without lousing overall corretness and balance, imho).

I can't relate to "brittle" any better than the term "veil" -- neither of these terms means anything to me.

DT880 is seldom peaky to my ears now that it's had some substantial burn-in time, unless the recording itself is bright. Ears vary of course, and I don't blame people for being treble-sensitive enough to dislike DT880... like most cans, it's not for everyone. IMO the highs can easily be tamed with burn-in plus good gear choices, but to each their own...

The K701 sounds tempting, but I'm very happy with the DT880 (and really don't have the money to plunk down for another set of headphones). We'll see if I can hear these at a meet sometime this year...

 

[spike33]

Quote:

Originally Posted by sacd lover I always find the 880's treble to detailed and overly resolving in comparison to the 880's midrange ..... which made the sound unbalanced and brittle to me. I actually think the dt880 is a very good headphone but the 880's flaw happens to be the one I am most sensitive to.

Very nice impressions. I also had a problem with the dt880 highs, makes it sound almost artificial. Glad k701 doesn't have this problem. Can you compare the bass between the two? I really like the bass on the dt880, hoping k701 is even better!

 

[Mastergill]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Borat ... I also had the HD600 + Cardas combo that I know you use as a reference. How do you feel the new K701's stack up against them?

I can give you my 2 cents about that as i had HD-600 for 5 years prior to the 650. The K701 is more neutral and transparent than HD-600, no doubt about that. The HD-600 still have that nice soundstage and slamming bass response like the 650, but i think the K701 is definitively a better headphone. If neutrality (respect to the original tone/color) and transparency is a must for you, you should be very happy with the K701 especially in comparison to HD-600.

 

[rsaavedra]

Quote:

Originally Posted by sacd lover I was always disappointed that the dt880 was so good except for the treble flaw that makes the presentation slightly to bright and treble prominent. I always find the 880's treble to detailed and overly resolving in comparison to the 880's midrange ..... which made the sound unbalanced and brittle to me. I actually think the dt880 is a very good headphone but the 880's flaw happens to be the one I am most sensitive to.

Sacdlover we have a very similar perception of the 880. This treble comparison you have made between the 880 and the 701 gives the 701 quite some strength.

 

[JaZZ]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mastergill You see, JaZZ, for me the HD-650 was/is perfect, really and i'm quite exigent for my music reproduction, you can trust me. So the K701 had to be more than perfect LOL!

Hard for me to imagine a «perfect» headphone or sound transducer generally. But of course I trust your impression that it's just that for you in your setup.


Quote:

I don't think you've explored all the HD-650's possibilities yet. The Aria is probably a very good amp but i'm sure you know it's not the last word about high-end headphone amplification.

You're certainly right -- but it's revealing that you're talking of high-end amplification instead of accuracy. Are you sure that your Manley is neutral and accurate? What if it has just the right compensation built in to make the HD 650 sound spectacular -- or just neutral in the ideal case? I'm not saying that's wrong, if the result is enjoyable. But I simply refuse to pay thousands of $ for synergetic coloration. My experience with high-priced amps so far tells me that they color the sound more than many lower-priced amps, just in a more spectacular and euphonic way. The most extreme examples being the RP5cav and the DynaMight. An exception to this rule was the HeadCode. But all in all the Aria is the most neutral amp I've heard in my system. Second would be the HeadCode, third the EMP with current-production tubes. Judged with the HD 650 and the Bel Canto DAC2 as source -- because its line-out amp is ideally suited for driving headphones directly. I have thoroughly tested that the signal wasn't audibly altered by the low and complex impedance a headphone represents, so I think I was able to compare input and output signal. Of course there will be doubts about the reliability of this method. I think it's reliable enough and at least far more reliable than just the idea «I've paid x thousands of $, so the amp has to be extremely accurate». The fact that it sounds extremely good tells exactly nothing about the height of its fidelity.


Quote:

I told you that because i can't imagine a better bass reproduction from an headphone. If there's a roll-off it's certainly below any lowest note you'll find on most recordings. It takes a very very good amp (and source too, but i'm sure your McCormack is pretty good) to reproduce accurately real deep bass, hence the 'usual' comment about bloated HD-650's bass...which is a freaking joke...seriously.

I didn't find the HD 650's bass bloated after break-in, the less so as my headband is quite loose, so there's not much pressure from the earpads to the ears.


Quote:

I can't imagine a flatter phone than the HD-650. Mid-bass hump from HD-600 is gone. There's also all the treble energy when the recording ask for, it's just very slightly dark, that's true. But it's exactely like some good British monitors that i love. Neutral (very) slightly dark. This is deliberate from the designer, so you can have very long monitoring session without pain to the ears. All the treble informations you need is there, it's just not forwarded like with so many other design, which BTW as you know can give a false impression of transparency.

I agree with you here: the HD 650 has excellent treble response: flat and smooth and delicate in its tone. Just very slightly rolled off to my ears, which was absolutely tolerable for me -- until the K 701 began to show its qualities and what was possible with a dynamic headphone. But don't think my love and preference for the K 701 be consistent! I'm quite fluctuating, also because the K 701 -- of course -- isn't perfect as well. And I really miss some of the HD 650's qualities in it, particularly the midrange smoothness.

This is all just my impression, based on my own sonic preferences and my setup. It's not an absolute rating. It's even possible that I would like the HD 650 better in your setup.
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