I'm back!
I've tried to skim through all 4 pages, so I could've missed some stuff but oh well, such is life LOL.
You're from Canada right? Where about are you from? If you're in Toronto I can give you some recommendations.
Also please list your budget so we can pinpoint how much we can spend exactly lol. For now we'll give you ballpark recommendations.
You have all convinced me that I would be much better off putting my money into a better set of headphones, instead of buying a better DAC/Amp combo.
Reddit is a neverending stream of users parroting around headphone recommendations. It's easy to say the HD6XX is the best, but very few people have heard everything even under that price point. Some of us here are on Reddit... I'm on Reddit. As soon as you put forward a recommendation outside the norm, it quickly becomes unpopular. That makes it hard to ask questions over there and get meaningful answers, in my opinion.
Oh god you've asked Reddit, I have Reddit account too but it's turning into ASR. Basically loud enough = good. Which is not true.
Please listen to headphone with your ears.
Please listen to headphone with your ears.
Please listen to headphone with your ears.
(VERY IMPORTANT)
Yes headphone is most important but amp and dac are important too.
You are as strong as your weakest link.
Everything need to work together in unison.
1) Resolution / Detail / Imaging -- I want to hear every pluck of a string, ever breath of air, every sound there is.
2) A large sound stage -- I know this is considered overrated by some, but it's extremely important to me. I can't explain why, it's just what makes music enjoyable for me. And please don't say "just get speakers". I know, I'm working on that too. This thread is specifically for headphones.
Hmmmm there's more to it but generally I find pronounced treble tend to give you perceived larger soundstage and better details.
Bass tend to make things sound "hazy" as bass sound are generally more omni-directional.
Not telling you to buy a bright headphone but coincidently HD800S is a wide sounding headphone with great details that happens to be........ bright...... lol.
Same with DACs that are airy and wide sounding tend to be a bit....... bright. More on that later.
3) Neutrality -- I want to hear music the way the artist intended. I don't want tons of bass, don't want screeching trebles, just want faithful reproduction.
HD6XX actually isn't neutral, it's a bit warm sounding and treble rolled off also not very wide.
Not sure how much your budget is but HD800S might be closest to what you're looking for.
If you can't afford that budget maybe look into AKG K7XX or Audio Technica AD900X or Beyer DT880.
Though I don't like voices on AKG headphones LOL. I'd actually pick Audio Technica.
Not OP but I used an SDAC for a while, It has a 3.5mm out on the back, idk that I'd call it a headphone out but you can plug headphones into it and it will work. But yeah it will require digital volume control. Also a big drawback is that the output impedance of that 3.5mm out on the SDAC is 150 ohm so unless you're working with a high-z headphone it can make the bass get very sloppy. Grab a closeout Schiit Magni+ or Heretic for $59 imo.
So the 3.5 mm out on SDAC is actually line out, line out is not the same as headphone out.
I forgot the exact science but something about line out lacks the current of voltage to drive the headphone, you need an amp to amp up the signal to drive headphone properly.
That and the RCA out also sounds better than the 3.5 mm out.
So please get an amp LOL.
But SDAC as a DAC is fine, actually I'm still using SDAC now even as we speak. And I've tried a few DACs up to the $1000 mark (right now I have Bifrost 2 sitting next to my SDAC LOL), but I'm still listening to SDAC LOL.
I'd not worry about SDAC for now, keep using it.
I was playing songs off my phone, through the FiiO K7 DAC/Amp.
To sum it up, I could B.A.R.E.L.Y. notice any difference at all between my 6XX's and the HD800s and Arya Organics. I came to the store expecting a vastly improved soundstage, much greater detail, new sounds/instruments I had never heard before in my songs, etc. Instead, all I got was basically the exact same sound, just less... condensed? Less veiled? More clear? I don't quite know how to articulate it, it was so subtle.
UHHHHH here is where I'm gonna differ from Reddit. Reddit would probably tell you K7 is fine. But I find K7 sound really......... meh (sorry)......... when I tried..... LOL.
I actually have a strong suspicion that is actually what's holding you back. Ok some more example:
Hifiman R7DX = very easy to drive, sounds good on low power gear, but doesn't scale much.
D5200 = sounds good on anything, scale well.
TH900 = very very source picky, but can scale really high.
I tried Dragonfly Red on the TH900 once and I find it limited its potential and sounded "meh". And Dragonfly Red was my favourite dongle for the longest time before I got SDAC.
This goes back to the "you're as strong as your weakest link".
If your DAC/Amp does not match the level of your headphone it will hold back its potential.
HD 800s - Nice and clear, with a focus on the mids and trebles.
Arya Organic - Equally as clear as the HD800s, but with a bit less mids, an a bit more bass an subbase.
Focal Clear MG - A bit clearer than my 6XX's, but with an equally closed-sounding soundstage as the 6XX's, and a poor fit for my ears.
Denon AH-D5200 - Stronger base and trebles than the others, as to be expected from the more "U" shaped profile, but overall less detailed. Didn't sound any more detailed than my 6XX's.
My 6XX's - Individual sounds and instruments and words sounded just as good as on the HD800s or the Arya Organics, but slightly "condensed", or "muffled", or like they were being said from 20 feet down in a tunnel.
HD800S = I still think this is probably your best choice, but you need DAC/Amp that can bring out that potential.
Arya Organic = Never heard it, no clue lol.
Focal Clear MG = Focal generally are also not very wide sounding.
Denon AH-D5200 = This is a closed back headphone, naturally will not as wide as open back. I did own this for a few years, I really like it otherwise lol.
HD6XX = HD6XX is also not known to be very wide.
I haven't felt this lost in years.
This is me everytime I try to "upgrade" and spend 4x the cost and only to go back to my old gear LOL.
There is technicality, and there is tonal preference.
A lot of the time things get technically better but tonally worse.
HD650/6xx can be a great sounding headphone with the right gear.
This, ideally you want tube amp to bring out their potential. Though tube amps are generally not that neutral LOL.
As good as the HD650 can be in the right setup, they will never be the best headphones for the above criteria.
1. they have excellent imaging, but they are not the final word in resolution.
2. The have one of the smallest stages i've heard.
3. Neutral they are not. They lean warm and have a midbass hump.
LOL basically this.
Diminishing returns are very real.
I always say you need to spend double the cost to get a little bit better. Also the difference gets smaller and smaller as you go higher in price.
The first few jumps you'll probably notice a huge difference in sound quality. But the last few jumps you're probably looking at 5% better each jump.
First bit of advise... DON'T WORRY!
Personal audio is very personal. It's about personal listening pleasure, not trying to align one's perceptions with a bunch of internet chatter.
Basically this, sometimes people might steer you in other direction. But you need to figure out what's right for you.
Listen with your own ear.
Oh forgot to say, I find amp makes a huge difference too. Not sure what your budget is, but my Lyr 3 gets PRETTY WIDE. But it's also not cheap.
For your preference I suspect Schiit Midgard might be a good option. Or even the new Vali 3.
But if budget allows them Lyr+ or Lyr 3 might be more ideal.
Anyway, it's getting late and I'm rambling on and I don't even know what I'm writing anymore.
Please state your budget and I'll find something for you, thanks!