FiiO X7 | DXD | DSD | 384K/64B | ESS9018+ Android | WiFi | Bluetooth | 4 AMP modules | Balanced Out |
May 19, 2014 at 6:24 PM Post #257 of 18,012

Mython

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Why do you need a DAP to do that? You can use a mobile phone or computer to discover new music
confused_face_2.gif

 
May 20, 2014 at 10:41 AM Post #259 of 18,012

pachoo5

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  Why do you need a DAP to do that? You can use a mobile phone or computer to discover new music
confused_face_2.gif

 
So that I can hear it using a high quality DAP in one unit. Of course I can hear Spotify through my iPhone but the point is that these high quality portable players have better DACs, amps, etc. Spotify through these players would sound worlds better than through my iPhone.
 
And Spotify isn't just for discovering new music. I use it as one of my main libraries since they pretty much have everything and play the songs in ultra high quality. 
 
May 20, 2014 at 1:53 PM Post #260 of 18,012

jbr1971

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So that I can hear it using a high quality DAP in one unit. Of course I can hear Spotify through my iPhone but the point is that these high quality portable players have better DACs, amps, etc. Spotify through these players would sound worlds better than through my iPhone.
 
And Spotify isn't just for discovering new music. I use it as one of my main libraries since they pretty much have everything and play the songs in ultra high quality. 

 
/rant
 
I'm sorry, but "~320 kbps (only available to Premium subscribers)" is not "ultra high quality" & is a waste of space & power having to have wifi antennas in a high end DAP. What you need is a Fiio E07k connected to your phone, not an X7.
 
If you aren't going to be playing hi-res files, at least as your primary source, then why bother paying that kind of money?
 
If Fiio wants to make 2 versions of the X7, 1 with wifi/bluetooth, & 1 without, then I am all for it. However, adding all of these crap features to a high end player to try to attract the masses when trying to advertise to audiophiles is b.s. At ~$700 it is not going to be a mass market item.
 
/end rant
 
May 20, 2014 at 1:54 PM Post #261 of 18,012

Mython

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/rant
I'm sorry, but "~320 kbps (only available to Premium subscribers)" is not "ultra high quality" & is a waste of space & power having to have wifi antennas in a high end DAP. What you need is a Fiio E07k connected to your phone, not an X7.
 
If you aren't going to be playing hi-res files, at least as your primary source, then why bother paying that kind of money?
 
If Fiio wants to make 2 versions of the X7, 1 with wifi/bluetooth, & 1 without, then I am all for it. However, adding all of these crap features to a high end player to try to attract the masses when trying to advertise to audiophiles is b.s. At ~$700 it is not going to be a mass market item.
/end rant

 
 
I completely agree.
 
May 20, 2014 at 1:57 PM Post #262 of 18,012

pachoo5

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/rant
...
/end rant
 
Studies have proven over and over again that our ears can't hear the difference between 192kbs, let alone 320kbps, and raw sound files.
 
And of course I am a premium subscriber so the point about it being only 320kbs for subscribers only is moot. 
 
And of course there is a real reason to want to hear Spotify through a premium DAP instead of iPhone due to the much better DAC and amp. There is a gigantic difference in sound between the iPhone and a premium DAP and it isn't due to higher bit rates. It is from the DAC and amp.
 
And sure, I could run the signal through an external DAC but the point is PORTABILITY. Why would I want to have two or three devices taped together when the point is to have it being as portable as possible?
 
Just because it might not be something you care about doesn't mean it isn't something a lot of other people would appreciate, because the fact is, it is.
 
Sorry for being snippish but your post was pointlessly catty and obnoxious. 
 
BTW, you don't need a high powered attena to listen to Spotify. When you are a premium subscriber it copies the songs to your player so you can listen to them WITHOUT being on internet. 
 
May 20, 2014 at 2:03 PM Post #263 of 18,012

Shenook

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  /rant
 
I'm sorry, but "~320 kbps (only available to Premium subscribers)" is not "ultra high quality" & is a waste of space & power having to have wifi antennas in a high end DAP. What you need is a Fiio E07k connected to your phone, not an X7.
 
If you aren't going to be playing hi-res files, at least as your primary source, then why bother paying that kind of money?
 
If Fiio wants to make 2 versions of the X7, 1 with wifi/bluetooth, & 1 without, then I am all for it. However, adding all of these crap features to a high end player to try to attract the masses when trying to advertise to audiophiles is b.s. At ~$700 it is not going to be a mass market item.
 
/end rant
 
Studies have proven over and over again that our ears can't hear the difference between 192kbs, let alone 320kbps, and raw sound files.
 
And of course I am a premium subscriber so the point about it being only 320kbs for subscribers only is moot.
 
And of course there is a real reason to want to hear Spotify through a premium DAP instead of iPhone due to the much better DAC and amp. There is a gigantic difference in sound between the iPhone and a premium DAP and it isn't due to higher bit rates. It is from the DAC and amp.
 
Just because it might not be something you care about doesn't mean it isn't something a lot of other people would appreciate, because the fact is, it is.
 
Sorry for being snippish but your post was pointlessly catty and obnoxious.

I completely agree. Using a high end dap and Spotify is a great way to discover new music then I can buy the Redbook or dsd version. Highly valuable to me. Tis my opinion.
 
May 20, 2014 at 2:12 PM Post #264 of 18,012

jbr1971

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  /rant
...
/end rant
 
 
Sorry for being snippish but your post was pointlessly catty and obnoxious. 
 
 

 
While I do stand by my points, sorry to come off as catty & obnoxious. I guess I'm letting my day get the better of me.
 
May 20, 2014 at 2:45 PM Post #265 of 18,012

Mython

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I interpreted your remark (and agreed with it) from the point of view that an audiophile DAP should be aiming at high resolution playback, rather than catering for technology that doesn't need to be included. There are a hundred or more mobile phones that can handle Spotify.
 
 
 
Would someone walk into a Lamborghini dealership and ask if they can incorporate a rear seat into their flagship sports car, for the kids?
 
No, because it's streamlined (in more than just the aerodynamic sense) to perform a single task to the best ability possible with the currently-available technology.
 
May 20, 2014 at 5:40 PM Post #266 of 18,012

Shenook

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  I interpreted your remark (and agreed with it) from the point of view that an audiophile DAP should be aiming at high resolution playback, rather than catering for technology that doesn't need to be included. There are a hundred or more mobile phones that can handle Spotify.
 
 
 
Would someone walk into a Lamborghini dealership and ask if they can incorporate a rear seat into their flagship sports car, for the kids?
 
No, because it's streamlined (in more than just the aerodynamic sense) to perform a single task to the best ability possible with the currently-available technology.

Not to rain on your analogy but yes people do ask for more seats in lamborghini's.  There has been over 5 models with 4 seats or more over the years due to demand for this feature.  Here's a recent article on a more modern model.  http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/exotic/1201_2012_lamborghini_aventador_lp_700_4_test/photo_11.html
 
Your definition of high-end means a dap should just a few things perfectly and they must be the 4 things you want (subjective I know).  Well, I think a high-end DAP should do a lot perfectly.  Being able to listen to common music services is a plus for me.  I hate listening to it on my phone.  It is a low quality DAC, output is low and it gets interrupted by text and phone calls.
 
If you think Fiio is in business for the love of audio only then you are surely misled.  They have a business to run and appealing to more people provides them with more revenue which provides for more profit which provides for growing the business which should also provide for more research & development to make better products.
 
They are not trying to be lower quality.  They are not trying to subplant apple.  They are passionate about features audiophiles want.  All due respect why is having access to spotify and wifi such a bad thing.  You can turn wifi off generally if you are listening to lossless formats locally.
 
If someone listens to spotify they must not be an audiophile I guess. If you are such a purist how do you listen and find new music.  I guess if you listen to spotify on the phone then your audiophile card is now revoked.  If you listen to the radio, card revoked.  If you listen to anything less than DSD or live music in a controlled environment, your audiophile card is now revoked.  Comments like the above are the reason new people sometimes cringe at audiophile elite smugness and we deter new people interested in moving up the quality chain in their listening habits.
 
Please!
 
May 20, 2014 at 6:45 PM Post #267 of 18,012

jbr1971

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  ...  All due respect why is having access to spotify and wifi such a bad thing.  You can turn wifi off generally if you are listening to lossless formats locally.
 
If someone listens to spotify they must not be an audiophile I guess. If you are such a purist how do you listen and find new music.  I guess if you listen to spotify on the phone then your audiophile card is now revoked.  If you listen to the radio, card revoked.  If you listen to anything less than DSD or live music in a controlled environment, your audiophile card is now revoked.  Comments like the above are the reason new people sometimes cringe at audiophile elite smugness and we deter new people interested in moving up the quality chain in their listening habits...
 

 
I am making no correlation, or trying to imply one, that spotify users aren't/can't be audiophiles.
 
My problem is with adding extra components that will make more demands on an already limited power source, potentially interfere with the audio signal, & increase unit size.
 
May 20, 2014 at 7:19 PM Post #268 of 18,012

Mython

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Why does objecting to unnecessary additions classify me as 'smug'?
 
Wi-fi does not contribute to the core purpose of a flagship audiophile DAP. It is tertiary.    It so happens that I was one of the first owners of iBasso's DX100 (2nd batch), and very few people used the Wi-fi function, partly because iBasso added it more as an afterthought than a serious feature, and mostly because it was tertiary to the core purpose of the DAP.
 
Even on a mass-produced cellphone, it is widely known that wi-fi guzzles power, and audiophile DAPs already struggle to achieve high performance with worthwhile battery duration, moderate weight, and moderate size. Just take a look at the Calyx-M, which is reported to be managing only 4hrs, and that's with the Wi-fi feature abandoned! In fact, you might ask yourself why the Wi-fi feature was abandoned on this DAP.
 
And who said anything about DSD? Ironically, I've already said in one of the Fiio X7 threads that I don't consider DSD to be necessary.
 
May 20, 2014 at 9:14 PM Post #269 of 18,012

Shenook

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I am making no correlation, or trying to imply one, that spotify users aren't/can't be audiophiles.
 
My problem is with adding extra components that will make more demands on an already limited power source, potentially interfere with the audio signal, & increase unit size.

This thread has implications that Spotify is low quality not related to your comments individually. While I understand he extra components and size concern WiFi can be turned off and while in off state quality should not be affected. I would not listen to a lossless file and have WiFi on. Keep in mind portables can be used at work and in cars with other power sources and the battery used for true mobile application. But with WiFi off there is no additional power drain. Size on the other hand you have a good point but I am one of those bad consumers who thi k a 17" laptop with discrete graphics and 15 pounds is the best performing portable computer. When you step back it really is. On the other hand what one considers "portable" is different between maybe you and me. I know mython teamed me for proposing best performance over size earlier in this thread.
 
May 20, 2014 at 9:35 PM Post #270 of 18,012

Mython

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Have you considered that the DX100/HDP-R10 might fulfill the majority of your requirements, Shenook? (genuine question)
 
 
 
 
On a different note, there's another high-power (but relatively limited functionality) Chinese DAP just being released here:
 
http://www.head-fi.org/t/708636/qls-qa360-another-dsd-capable-dap
 

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