[FiiO KA17] Mini desktop-class amp, flagship dongle is officially released!
Feb 28, 2024 at 4:02 PM Post #271 of 697
If it gets too hot it stop working until it cools down. Running planar headphones on desktop mode, external power, high gain and high volumes for a while does stop mine from working continuously.
I hear you. I was correct in my review then when i said i would not using it for planars for long listening sessions.

You need a nuclear reactor for these planars. I heard honour stories even from xcan users.

On my marantz amp i needed more power for my 4XX than my 6XX. Usually the power is enough but then after few minutes is like these planars need more and more power.
 
Feb 28, 2024 at 4:05 PM Post #272 of 697
I hear you. I was correct in my review then when i said i would not using it for planars for long listening sessions.

You need a nuclear reactor for these planars. I heard honour stories even from xcan users.

On my marantz amp i needed more power for my 4XX than my 6XX. Usually the power is enough but then after few minutes is like these planars need more and more power.
Might need a water cooled ka17 mod 😂😂
 
Feb 28, 2024 at 10:24 PM Post #273 of 697
Don't think so. It obviously wouldn't output more power than it is capable of (I said high volumes not highest. I'm doing 100 -105 out of 120 for my he400se)
Not challenging you, but rather trying to understand…. If it is continuously cutting out you might be on the edge of the power capability of the KA17 when you are doing that. If you are in non-desktop mode you are limited to something like 300mW, (a little more, but I forget the precise number). I assume you are not in desktop mode with an external battery connected, are you?
 
Feb 29, 2024 at 9:04 AM Post #274 of 697
Yes it gets hot but this is expected and is the price we pay for the desktop mode. Is like having a Ferrari and complain for the gasoline consumption...:)

However, the device should not get so hot when desktop mode is deactivated even the second usb is used. I do not remember to experience that.

Unless someone has a phone that cannot provide power for desktop mode alone but by using the second usb the desktop mode is automatically activated because the button is on for the desktop mode. By switching off the relevant button the desktop mode should be deactivated and the dongle not getting too hot respectively.
I don't buy this. The ka13 puts out 550mw and it's a much smaller device than the KA17 at 650mw. I dont think that getting hot is anything to do with the power output. It's not logical, it can output full power when connected to a phone and it doesn't get hot, so it shouldn't from an external source either. It's a software bug, hopefully not a major hardware bug or else the design is flawed.

Again, if it doesnt get hot when receiving full power through the phone, there is no reason for it to get hot via USBc direct power.
 
Feb 29, 2024 at 12:55 PM Post #278 of 697
I don't buy this. The ka13 puts out 550mw and it's a much smaller device than the KA17 at 650mw. I dont think that getting hot is anything to do with the power output. It's not logical, it can output full power when connected to a phone and it doesn't get hot, so it shouldn't from an external source either. It's a software bug, hopefully not a major hardware bug or else the design is flawed.

Again, if it doesnt get hot when receiving full power through the phone, there is no reason for it to get hot via USBc direct power.
So is your desktop mode deactivated when you plug the power usb-c only or not?

What power source do you use to power it from the second usb port?

In any case i will try to test my device on the weekend that with desktop mode off the device gets very hot when is power from an external source. In my case a samsung mobile adapter or a battery pack.
 
Feb 29, 2024 at 1:11 PM Post #279 of 697
So is your desktop mode deactivated when you plug the power usb-c only or not?

What power source do you use to power it from the second usb port?

In any case i will try to test my device on the weekend that with desktop mode off the device gets very hot when is power from an external source. In my case a samsung mobile adapter or a battery pack.
Will have to check. I just noticed it was getting hot.
 
Feb 29, 2024 at 3:11 PM Post #280 of 697
Will have to check. I just noticed it was getting hot.
Check this please. It may also be that although you use desktop mode with your phone, your phone does not provide full power to ka17. The other power sourse thought it can provide that power which makes your dongle to get even hoter.

But if you have desktop mode off and your phone gets extremely hot then yes this is not good at all.
 
Mar 1, 2024 at 4:35 AM Post #281 of 697
Good morning FiiO, I got your ka17 from the FiiO Europe store (I had chosen the blue version but the black one arrived).
I would like to point out that on my phone I use the battery preservation mode which charges the phone to 85%.
I have some big problems with my dongle:

1 The battery of my Samsung S23 ultra is vampirized in any mode, in desktop mode the autonomy of my phone does not reach 2 hours (I think it reaches a temperature of 40 degrees celsius) in normal mode the autonomy does not exceed 4.

2 if I connect a power bank to the ka17's power port it changes absolutely nothing regarding the autonomy of my phone.

3 I tried the preset equalization mode (rock, jazz, classical, dance,...) and I must say that they are all terrible (this doesn't happen to me with my PC's sound card).

The battery of my s23 ultra has significantly deteriorated since I used the ka17.

I wanted to ask, is this absorption behavior normal?

What is the additional port for?

When I connect a power bank, why does it keep draining my phone's battery?

I'm afraid to use the ka17, do you recommend calling FiiO Europa for these behaviors? Best regards
So I checked this on my device, using accubattery which monitors battery drain. Drain without the dongle plugged in or powered is about 215mw, plugging in the dongle and playing music makes the power draw fluctuate between 600 and 800wm with desktop mode on and high gain, changing to low gain seems to make little difference to power draw weirdly - don't know why. Then plugging into USBc power drops consumption back to 215mw. The usbc power 100% is working as intended, so no idea what is happening in your device.

The power still randomly shuts off though sometimes when opening an app or pressing home button on the phone.

edit: the device draws power regardless of if it is playing music or not, so don't leave it plugged into your phone if not listening as it will kill the battery. The difference in power draw is also small at higher or lower volumes. It seems to pull a relatively steady amount regardless of the volume - a little higher for higher volume but not too much. It also still gets hot when it is plugged in without usbc external power. Desktop mode however DOES draw more power, both with music playing and no music playing.

In conclusion it suggests to me that if the device is plugged into the phone it pulls power even if no music is playing.
Desktop mode does cause more power draw, but high/low gain makes little difference
Higher vs lower volume makes little difference, although a little.
It gets hot when using USBc power or not - I think that subjectively it heats up a little less when not in desktop mode (regardless of if its externally powered or not)
So don't leave it plugged in, and don't use desktop mode without USBc external power unless for short perdiods unless you want to lose a lot of battery.

By my discharge calculations, a full s23 ultra battery on desktop mode would last around 6 hours of playback.
 
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Mar 1, 2024 at 4:37 AM Post #282 of 697
So is your desktop mode deactivated when you plug the power usb-c only or not?

What power source do you use to power it from the second usb port?

In any case i will try to test my device on the weekend that with desktop mode off the device gets very hot when is power from an external source. In my case a samsung mobile adapter or a battery pack.
For iems I'd still get the ka17 as it's a warmer source and sounds better to me than that ka13's bright leaning signature. For iems I've not had it yet too hot at all and it's totally functional. Peq is nice too but app accessibility is non existent as you only have peq access on the app.
 
Mar 1, 2024 at 2:40 PM Post #283 of 697
Recieved my KA17 yesterday -

Here are my issues:

As already mentioned in the thread - No play/pause/track skip available from hardware buttons

DSD decoding is only available IF MQA is turned on (no idea why) - With MQA off - DSD is white noise

Activating PEQ mode turns off DSD and MQA (Which I think it should) - however when cycling through the presets and user definable EQ the volume output is seriously compromised - I'd describe it as only outputting half its intended peak power output (and that's using sensitive easy to drive IEM's) even with some gain enabled on the left most slider under the definable user settings.

Fiio control app is pants for this dongle!

What I love about it so far is that its far warmer than my previous dongle - The KA03 - Which for me had far too much forward treble and seemed so bright i had to downsample so I could add EQ to tame it.

I'm now listening to bit perfect dsf without feeling the need for any intervention.

I'm also enjoying upscaling 24bit flac to 768khz pcm in USB Audio Player Pro to take advantage of the filters - That for me is a revelation!!!!

Hopefully the control app will get an update - If not - And you can do without the need for PEQ (useless implimentation imho - as it can be achieved in software mode with the likes of USB Audio Player Pro) I think its a solid buy overall

xxxstarmanxxx
 
Mar 1, 2024 at 8:59 PM Post #284 of 697
Dear freinds,

1. FIIO Control APP only supports EQ adjustment:

The KA17 comes with a display, most of the functions can be set up through the display without going through the APP, which is more convenient. So our APP only reserves the EQ adjustment function that can't be realized by the small display. Other settings are not added yet.
Besides, we use XMOS to realize the algorithm of USB AUDIO and PEQ. Its USB HID communication command is limited so we can't realize many function definitions for KA17 like Bluetooth devices. However, please inform us the additional functions you need in the APP, and we will try to add them gradually after integrating most of the users' requirements.

2. The KA17 is getting hot when D. mode is on:

When D.MODE is on, the amplifier parallel mode will be turned on in for greater output capability. In our tests, power consumption increases by about 40% when D.MODE is on, but not so hot as to cause a safety incident.
As mentioned in our product introduction page, the KA17 has a built-in temperature detection function, which automatically reduces or turn off the output when the temperature of the machine exceeds the set range. Please feel free to use it. If you want to dissipate heat faster, please try to remove the leather case. If you feel that the product is heating up very much, even the risk of burns, please contact the seller or support@fiio.com for check.

Best regards
 
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Mar 1, 2024 at 9:00 PM Post #285 of 697
Review and Disassembly of the KA17: Dual Type-C Port USB Dongle/Desktop Headphone Amplifier

Upon seeing the KA17, my first question was: which model of the FIIO USB dongle is it upgraded?
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Based on FIIO's naming convention, the predecessor of KA17 should be the KA7. However, there seems to be no such model in FIIO's product lineup.
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The KA17 and KA13, both belonging to the "KA" series, share a similar appearance, but the KA17 appears to be of a higher level because it has a display screen, while the pentagonal window on the KA13 is just an LED transmission window. Additionally, the KA17 is larger compared to the KA13.
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The KA17 is one of the only two models in FIIO's USB dongle series with a screen, the other being the KA5. Furthermore, the KA17 not only has a screen but also features a D.MODE switch for desktop mode.
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Moreover, the KA17 boasts a more explosive configuration with two Type-C ports on its body. The last time I saw a similar configuration was on FIIO's brick-shaped DAC and headphone amplifier, the Q15.

In addition, the UI of KA17 is not only rich in options but also offers a unique feature of a language option among USB dongles.

After this comparison and analysis, a general impression can be drawn: the KA17 excels in both high output power and rich UI control options.
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Audio testing: Previously, on the KA13, I experienced the power of the D.MODE switch, which allowed the maximum output of the balanced port to reach 567mW (tested by AudioTOP). This time, under the collaboration of D.MODE and dual Type-C ports, the KA17's maximum output for the balanced port has surged to 649mW, once again breaking records.

According to our observations, the D.MODE switch has an immediate effect on the maximum output of both the single-ended and balanced ports.

When turned off: single-ended output power goes up to 148mW; balanced up to 261mW; When turned on: single-ended output power goes up to 289mW; balanced up to 649mW.

In other words, when the desktop mode is activated, the power of the single-ended port increases by 95%, almost doubling it, while the power of the balanced port increases significantly by 149%.

With robust power output, the suppression of THD+N distortion and background noise is quite good instead of losing one thing or the other.
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Furthermore, we noticed that after enabling the desktop mode, the static power consumption of the KA17 increased from 0.78W to 1.14W. In comparison, the KA13's power consumption remained around 0.72W with little variation, regardless of whether the D.Mode switch was on or off. Therefore, the headphone amplifier circuit structures of the two USB dongles must be different.

More details and reasons about this will be further analyzed during the disassembly process. Anyways, the KA17's unique characteristics necessitate a second Type-C port, allowing third-party power sources beyond just mobile phones.

Based on past usage experiences, USB dongles tend to draw a significant amount of power from the phone's built-in battery. Unknowingly, this could deplete the phone's battery to a large extent, causing battery anxiety.

However, during the use of the KA17 this time, with the assistance of the unlimited power supply from the second Type-C port, the battery icon on the phone remained unchanged regardless of how long I listened to music. Hence, the manufacturer's designation of it as a "mini desktop DAC/Amp" comes with a reason.
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The disassembly of the KA17 this time was quite unusual. After several unsuccessful attempts using the traditional method of heating and suction cups, as you can see, I used a Zippo lighter with strong double-sided tape to open the cover.
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The back panel departed from the usual glass material and instead adopted a metal plate. Coupled with a thermal conductive pad, it facilitates faster heat dissipation for the internal circuitry, primarily the headphone amplifier chips.
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Removing the first circuit board, we can see a smaller thermal pad sandwiched between two headphone amplifier chips.
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This board contains all the audio circuits, with the core components including two DACs and four headphone amplifiers, distributed on both sides of the board.
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The DACs are ES9069Q, one for each channel. The ES9069Q incorporates ESS's latest fourth-generation Hyperstream modulation engine, with a channel count of 2ch.
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The headphone amplifier chips are the SGM8261-5. This is a dual-channel chip, so the KA17's headphone amplifier channels can reach up to 2x4=8.

How do so many channels coordinate? According to the datasheet, the typical power consumption of each SGM8261-5 is 0.2W. It can be inferred that when the D.MODE is off, only two SGM8261-5 chips are involved in amplification; when the D.MODE is on, all four SGM8261-5 chips are working.
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Continuing with the disassembly, remove the metal piece sandwiched between the two circuit boards.
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The lower-level circuit board is collectively referred to as the main control board, containing multiple functional sections, such as display, control, input, USB bridge, and audio data processing. You can see a 16-core XMOS chip and two Type-C ports on it. The red interface on the side is dedicated to power input, but not data transfer.
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All buttons and switches are mounted on a small metal bracket, which absorbs and isolates all operation pressure, ensuring durability for long-term use.
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The OLED screen closely fits the panel glass.
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The KA17 is FIIO's most component-rich and structurally complex USB dongle to date. The disassembly process was relatively difficult, and users are not advised to disassemble it themselves because the probability of non-destructive reassembly is very low.

Despite its complexity, the structure remains orderly. Within the compact layers, both digital/analog isolation and circuit cooling are well maintained.
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The KA17 adopts a new DAC chip from ESS, and the configuration of the headphone amplifier section not only features a large number of chips but also exhibits a unique mode of operation among headphone amplifier chips, unseen before. With the hardware architecture described above and the assistance of D.MODE and dual Type-C ports, the KA17 vigorously raises the ceiling.

At the same time, it breaks down the boundary between USB dongle and desktop headphone amplifiers. While the inherent label of USB dongles is portable and easy to carry around, now with an additional power input port, its application value in desktop scenarios will also be explored by users. Moreover, the bilingual display interface unique to FIIO further reduces usage barriers.

Author: AudioTOP Edited on 19/02/2024
Original text: https://weibo.com/ttarticle/p/show?id=2309405003262897291672
 
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