[electronicsdesign]

And I don't see any commercial tapes to speak of and all mine are a long time gone.

There are plenty of new releases on cassette, from indie artists to mainstream ones.
Bandcamp, cassette dedicated sites (like the one mentioned in post #130 - page 9), artists' websites, etc. offer such for sale.

Maybe next model can drive Metal tapes with adjust EQ

This would be a very nice feature as it doesn't require any special components nor is it necessary to be done automatically, an external switch would be enough.

If you can find such ICs that are still in mass production, please feel free to recommend them to us!

ICs are not even the main problem here, the issue is Dolby Labs don't license Dolby NR technology anymore.
This is the reason why these ICs are no longer made, as there's a patent and trademark behind the technology.

One thing that should exist on such device is a user removable battery.

 

[FiiO Willson]

There are plenty of new releases on cassette, from indie artists to mainstream ones.
Bandcamp, cassette dedicated sites (like the one mentioned in post #130 - page 9), artists' websites, etc. offer such for sale.

This would be a very nice feature as it doesn't require any special components nor is it necessary to be done automatically, an external switch would be enough.

ICs are not even the main problem here, the issue is Dolby Labs don't license Dolby NR technology anymore.
This is the reason why these ICs are no longer made, as there's a patent and trademark behind the technology.

One thing that should exist on such device is a user removable battery.

I think the battery technology is good enough now that I don't know what the point of replaceable batteries is.
You can actually use it for more than 20 hours on a single charge (our test conditions were 13 hours of battery life at 40mV output, apparently people listen to music with up to 10mV)

On the other hand, replaceable batteries, increase the size of the product. And the single battery life would be much less.

 

[Chuck Dee]

I didn't realize that you were so concerned about CP13

Firstly, thanks for addressing the points I raised.
If you are asking for opinions and ideas here on the forum then you should at least expect a lot of interest from 'portable analogue audio / Walkman enthusiasts' such as myself and many others here (?)

1, our goal is to bring the tape drive back into production, and make a mass-produced portable product that is better than others
As for the W&F you mentioned, this is currently around 0.15%~0.2% in our tests, but not yet to 0.10% RMS.

If that's a genuine goal which targets the existing 'enthusiast market' who have pre-existing and justified expectations then I suggest you should be aiming much higher than 0.15-0.20% W&F. This will be the principal defining factor to determine if the SQ is good enough and subsequently whether the product is good or bad from an enthusiasts point of view. Enthusiasts can easily hear/perceive W&F over 0.1%.

If your target market is the 'throw-away consumerist' market with no previous experience of the cassette medium then I suspect 0.15-0.20% W&F would be considered 'adequate' due to the lack of comparitive experience of that particular market sector.

The positioning of our products is an ordinary consumer-grade products, do not need to be too entangled in this indicator.

Dependent on the SQ variables as mentioned above then I suspect this will exclude the existing 'enthusiast' market sector if their intention is to use it for playback and not just to purchase as a collectible. i.e. the W&F will be unacceptable.


You would have benefitted from piloting this product to potential consumers to obtain useful feedback before market-release.
Something you could still give serious consideration to before releasing it to an expectant as well as an inexperienced market.

 

[electronicsdesign]

I think the battery technology is good enough now that I don't know what the point of replaceable batteries is.

The point is very simple actually: to make the device repairable. So if battery is not user replaceable, at least make the device easy to open.
A product that is hard to open and battery is non-replaceable is to be trashed when the battery dies. It's just the way it is.
Let me give you an example of an old Fiio product: the X5 III DAP had the back cover held in by clips and 2 screws, not glued like newer DAPs do.
That was a good design and it was easy to swap the battery on it. Why not keep such designs ? Is there any reason not to do it ?

On the other hand, replaceable batteries, increase the size of the product. And the single battery life would be much less.

Yes they might if you use a cylindrical type cell compared to a flat one glued to the back of the case (which is what I believe you are using).
Don't know how much empty space there is left inside the case, if I knew I could come up with suggestions.

If you are asking for opinions and ideas here on the forum

Would also like to add that if you ask for opinions, it's a good idea to take those opinions into consideration a bit more seriously.
And if you do dismiss them, dismiss them with good, well-thought arguments. Because otherwise it means those opinions don't really matter.

Enthusiasts can easily hear/perceive W&F over 0.1%.

To me the real question here is how achievable such a goal would be on such a mechanism (with no servo on the motor) and at a decent retail price.
Here I'm on Fiio's side as I don't think it's realistic to make a walkman with that low of a w&f without increasing the cost of production significantly.
A DD-style mechanism won't be feasable to build, because the market price will be above vintage units. I can explain in detail why that is if you don't believe me.
The first thing is such a device must be sellable to many people, not just a handful of enthusiasts. And for that the price needs to be within a certain margin.

You would have benefitted from piloting this product to potential consumers to obtain useful feedback before market-release.
Something you could still give serious consideration to before releasing it to an expectant as well as an inexperienced market.

I totally agree with this !

 

[BobSmith8901]

I think FiiO should just focus on quality mech, quality head, focus on playback. Record function on a portable is always going to play second fiddle to a full sized 3-head deck. Removal battery seems like a reasonable request.

Yes, mechanical stability for sure as I think a lot of folks are going to be playing back ancient tapes from their olden days, and the more robust the engineering the better to play back problematic cassettes. But this may be wishful thinking on my part.

 

[kazsud]

Will there be a pre-order?

 

[cliffjnr]

The point is very simple actually: to make the device repairable. So if battery is not user replaceable, at least make the device easy to open.
A product that is hard to open and battery is non-replaceable is to be trashed when the battery dies. It's just the way it is.
Let me give you an example of an old Fiio product: the X5 III DAP had the back cover held in by clips and 2 screws, not glued like newer DAPs do.
That was a good design and it was easy to swap the battery on it. Why not keep such designs ? Is there any reason not to do it ?

Yes they might if you use a cylindrical type cell compared to a flat one glued to the back of the case (which is what I believe you are using).
Don't know how much empty space there is left inside the case, if I knew I could come up with suggestions.

Would also like to add that if you ask for opinions, it's a good idea to take those opinions into consideration a bit more seriously.
And if you do dismiss them, dismiss them with good, well-thought arguments. Because otherwise it means those opinions don't really matter.

To me the real question here is how achievable such a goal would be on such a mechanism (with no servo on the motor) and at a decent retail price.
Here I'm on Fiio's side as I don't think it's realistic to make a walkman with that low of a w&f without increasing the cost of production significantly.
A DD-style mechanism won't be feasable to build, because the market price will be above vintage units. I can explain in detail why that is if you don't believe me.
The first thing is such a device must be sellable to many people, not just a handful of enthusiasts. And for that the price needs to be within a certain margin.

I totally agree with this !

plus eneloop rechargeable batteries are great. i use them in my old sony walkmans

 

[jamato8]

plus eneloop rechargeable batteries are great. i use them in my old sony walkmans

Yes, they are good batteries but round batteries waste space. The flat batteries used in phones and many daps etc., are very space efficient and have high density power.

 

[FiiO Willson]

Will there be a pre-order?

There won't be pre-orders,
but frankly, there are so many people among consumers who want to buy right now that I'm worried we're going to be sold out of the first batch very soon

 

[NymPHONOmaniac]

oh yes, oh YES!

thats very exciting!!!!!!!!

what a great idea Fiio, since unlike CD, Cassette can't be replace by Flac, its a whole different audio experience. Analog euphonic way. Not made for critical listening, yet musicality can be super rewarding.

very addictive in fact.

I hope to be lucky enough to give this CP13 a try. This is part of my cassette collection (i have about 100).

 

[MohawkUS]

Very interesting, I'd be glad to have a portable cassette player sometime in the future. My thoughts:

1. I'd prefer a simpler device. Playback only is fine. Battery life of 8hrs is good, so we're already doing great. Dolby B & chrome tape support is a minimum. Never know what you'll get buying from Bandcamp/Discogs but that would cover 98% of it. Maybe 2 dip switches inside door for controlling this assuming tape type detection isn't still feasible; or one 3-position switch(DolbyB-None-Chrome) To my limited understanding this would require some EQ circuitry, not a dedicated IC?

2. W&F of .15% is fine price dependent(less than $250?) That matches my Tandberg TCD300 which sounds good. The TCD sounds better than my Harman Kardon TD4400 with its supposed .045% although the older player is restored & the HK isn't so I don't know if it's anywhere near spec. Chasing W&F to the detriment of output stage wouldn't be a good compromise.

3. That blue looks really nice, no opinion on style otherwise.

4. A protective case/cover would be nice, this would be a good device for going on walks with.

 

[FiiO Willson]

Very interesting, I'd be glad to have a portable cassette player sometime in the future. My thoughts:

1. I'd prefer a simpler device. Playback only is fine. Battery life of 8hrs is good, so we're already doing great. Dolby B & chrome tape support is a minimum. Never know what you'll get buying from Bandcamp/Discogs but that would cover 98% of it. Maybe 2 dip switches inside door for controlling this assuming tape type detection isn't still feasible; or one 3-position switch(DolbyB-None-Chrome) To my limited understanding this would require some EQ circuitry, not a dedicated IC?

2. W&F of .15% is fine price dependent(less than $250?) That matches my Tandberg TCD300 which sounds good. The TCD sounds better than my Harman Kardon TD4400 with its supposed .045% although the older player is restored & the HK isn't so I don't know if it's anywhere near spec. Chasing W&F to the detriment of output stage wouldn't be a good compromise.

3. That blue looks really nice, no opinion on style otherwise.

4. A protective case/cover would be nice, this would be a good device for going on walks with.

There is a protective cover designed,like this.

But due to the cost, he can't be sold with the machine anymore。。。

 

[MohawkUS]

That looks nice

 

[Marat Sar]

WOW! A great new cassette player with good sound would be a dream for me. Definitely a buy!

 

[rkt31]

Very interesting, I'd be glad to have a portable cassette player sometime in the future. My thoughts:

1. I'd prefer a simpler device. Playback only is fine. Battery life of 8hrs is good, so we're already doing great. Dolby B & chrome tape support is a minimum. Never know what you'll get buying from Bandcamp/Discogs but that would cover 98% of it. Maybe 2 dip switches inside door for controlling this assuming tape type detection isn't still feasible; or one 3-position switch(DolbyB-None-Chrome) To my limited understanding this would require some EQ circuitry, not a dedicated IC?

2. W&F of .15% is fine price dependent(less than $250?) That matches my Tandberg TCD300 which sounds good. The TCD sounds better than my Harman Kardon TD4400 with its supposed .045% although the older player is restored & the HK isn't so I don't know if it's anywhere near spec. Chasing W&F to the detriment of output stage wouldn't be a good compromise.

3. That blue looks really nice, no opinion on style otherwise.

4. A protective case/cover would be nice, this would be a good device for going on walks with.

Recording and playback with dolby b c s should be there. Pre recorded cassettes are not very well recorded. So making an analog metal tape dolby s master is my dream.