[tigersinacage]

So, I just got the Beyer DT880's (250ohm) and a Fiio E17 amp, but I'm having a bit of an issue.
 
To get to a pretty loud and full (but not ear blasting) level, the Fiio has to be turned up to around 55 on 12db, but around there it starts to peak and distort slightly. When it is set to 6db, it has to be on max, which is 60. Which is a pretty nice level, quite loud. Just seems very strange that it has to be on maximum volume to achieve that level.
 
Does that sound right to you, or is the E17 just not powerful enough to drive the 250ohm DT880's? I'm trying to work out if there is a defect with something, or that's just how loud they go.
 
This is running through USB-DAC to my Macbook (96khz - 24bit) with volume max on the laptop. All files are FLAC, with the lowest quality I've tried being 320k.
 
Any help would be appreciated.

 

[PurpleAngel]

Quote:

So, I just got the Beyer DT880's (250ohm) and a Fiio E17 amp, but I'm having a bit of an issue.
 
To get to a pretty loud and full (but not ear blasting) level, the Fiio has to be turned up to around 55 on 12db, but around there it starts to peak and distort slightly. When it is set to 6db, it has to be on max, which is 60. Which is a pretty nice level, quite loud. Just seems very strange that it has to be on maximum volume to achieve that level.
 
Does that sound right to you, or is the E17 just not powerful enough to drive the 250ohm DT880's? I'm trying to work out if there is a defect with something, or that's just how loud they go.
 
This is running through USB-DAC to my Macbook (96khz - 24bit) with volume max on the laptop. All files are FLAC, with the lowest quality I've tried being 320k.
 
Any help would be appreciated.

I believe the E17 and E11 are about equal headphone amplifier wise.
With my DT770 250-ohm and DT990 250-Ohm I have to have the E11 volume on almost max.

 

[tigersinacage]

Quote:

I believe the E17 and E11 are about equal headphone amplifier wise.
With my DT770 250-ohm and DT990 250-Ohm I have to have the E11 volume on almost max.

That's reassuring... How would the Little Dot MK3 compare?

 

[iZMXi]

Don't feel bad about running the Fiio E17 at high volume, because the DT880s high impedance means that even when "maxed out," the E17 isn't really delivering that much power.  Futhermore, the DT880s aren't particularly efficient, which means you won't get crazy loudness from a given amount of power.

Since your DT880s are 250 ohms, the Fiio E17 will only be able to deliver 36mW at max power.  Also, the DT770 PROs have a sensitivity of 96dB/mW, that means 36mW will get you at most 111dB (at 1kHz).
 
Compare the same amp driving a MDR-V6 - which has 106dB/mW efficiency and an impedance of 63 ohms.  The E17 would be able to deliver 143mW, and the headphones would output at most 128dB (at 1 kHz).
 
For the record, 10dB is 10 times the power, and a perceived doubling in loudness (3dB would be 2 times the power).  As such, in this case, MDR-V6s would sound more than twice as loud as Beyerdynamic DT880s at any given volume.  But, unless you want more volume, don't worry about it - you'd be stressing your E17 the most by driving lower impedance headphones that used more current!
 
***P.S.   This guy loves the Little Dot Hybrid Amp.  http://www.head-fi.org/t/513393/guide-sonic-differences-between-dt770-dt990-models-more  Scroll on down to read what he has to say.

Here's one for sale.  http://www.head-fi.org/t/618390/little-dot-1-hybrid-tube-headphone-amp-like-new
 
At 250 ohm, there isn't much difference in power output between the hyrbid and the mk3, but the hyrbid is cheaper.  It would come to sound quality/preference after that, and I don't really have a clue on that matter! 

 

[tigersinacage]

Quote:

Don't feel bad about running the Fiio E17 at high volume, because the DT880s high impedance means that even when "maxed out," the E17 isn't really delivering that much power.  Futhermore, the DT880s aren't particularly efficient, which means you won't get crazy loudness from a given amount of power.

Since your DT880s are 250 ohms, the Fiio E17 will only be able to deliver 36mW at max power.  Also, the DT770 PROs have a sensitivity of 96dB/mW, that means 36mW will get you at most 111dB (at 1kHz).
 
Compare the same amp driving a MDR-V6 - which has 106dB/mW efficiency and an impedance of 63 ohms.  The E17 would be able to deliver 143mW, and the headphones would output at most 128dB (at 1 kHz).
 
For the record, 10dB is 10 times the power, and a perceived doubling in loudness (3dB would be 2 times the power).  As such, in this case, MDR-V6s would sound more than twice as loud as Beyerdynamic DT880s at any given volume.  But, unless you want more volume, don't worry about it - you'd be stressing your E17 the most by driving lower impedance headphones that used more current!
 
***P.S.   This guy loves the Little Dot Hybrid Amp.  http://www.head-fi.org/t/513393/guide-sonic-differences-between-dt770-dt990-models-more  Scroll on down to read what he has to say.

Here's one for sale.  http://www.head-fi.org/t/618390/little-dot-1-hybrid-tube-headphone-amp-like-new
 
At 250 ohm, there isn't much difference in power output between the hyrbid and the mk3, but the mk3 is cheaper.  It would come to sound quality/preference after that, and I don't really have a clue on that matter! 

Ah, perfect. That was exactly what I needed to know. Thank you so much! So, by getting a more powerful amp, would it really only be a difference in volume (Depending on the amp of course) I'm not losing any of the full frequency spectrum by using the E17 with the DT880's?
 
Are there any amps other than the MK3 you could recommend for around the $300 mark? I would quite like something tube if that price is realistic. My preference would be a USB-DAC tube amplifier, unless they aren't the best, I'm not really too sure.

 

[iZMXi]

Quote:

Ah, perfect. That was exactly what I needed to know. Thank you so much! So, by getting a more powerful amp, would it really only be a difference in volume (Depending on the amp of course) I'm not losing any of the full frequency spectrum by using the E17 with the DT880's?
 
Are there any amps other than the MK3 you could recommend for around the $300 mark? I would quite like something tube if that price is realistic. My preference would be a USB-DAC tube amplifier, unless they aren't the best, I'm not really too sure.

 
The spectrum the E17 delivers should be more or less the same no matter what volume you ask of it.  The only difference will be that that you might lose a bit of the "dynamic range."  That is, if everything is being pumped out at/near max volume, when the snare drums (etc) kick in that are 6dB louder than the rest of the music, you may only have 3dB of headroom left!  So, you might end up with "compressed" sound running max volume - if the song has varying parts that are substantially louder than the rest, you will lose out on those volume differences.
 
A new amp would give you its own flavor on the sound, as well as a different amount of power it could output.
 
Unfortunately, I don't know enough amplifiers to recommend one.

 

[JamesFiiO]

Quote:

Ah, perfect. That was exactly what I needed to know. Thank you so much! So, by getting a more powerful amp, would it really only be a difference in volume (Depending on the amp of course) I'm not losing any of the full frequency spectrum by using the E17 with the DT880's?
 
Are there any amps other than the MK3 you could recommend for around the $300 mark? I would quite like something tube if that price is realistic. My preference would be a USB-DAC tube amplifier, unless they aren't the best, I'm not really too sure.

 
you can buy our E09K and plug the E17 into it, the output power is about 6 times vs E17 so it will enough to drive the DT880. 

 

[tigersinacage]

That looks really good, nice that it has its own dock for the E17! That's solid state, what kind of a difference would I hear by going tube with the DT880's? I heard that tube was the way to go with them.

 

[tigersinacage]

Looking at this one:

http://www.ampcity.co.uk/dacs/dac-amps-2/head-direct-hifiman-ef2.html
 
Thoughts?

 

[tattoohooligan]

FIIO e11 - 300mW@16ohms

FIIO e17 - 250mW@16ohms

 

[PurpleAngel]

Quote:

That looks really good, nice that it has its own dock for the E17! That's solid state, what kind of a difference would I hear by going tube with the DT880's? I heard that tube was the way to go with them.

Tigersinacage, like your Avatar.
Too bad there is only one season left of Breaking Bad.

 

[tigersinacage]

Quote:

Tigersinacage, like your Avatar.
Too bad there is only one season left of Breaking Bad.

 
I know man, but you can bet it's gonna be ******* crazy! New episode tomorrow. So good.

 

[yokken]

My E17 is driving my 250ohm DT880s with my MBP at full volume (USB DAC as well as amping) and the E17 at 22 right now. Not sure why you need to turn it up all the way, mine would be STUPID loud if I turned the E17 to max. Even 40 would be loud as hell.
 
Oh, and 6dB gain.

 

[stv014]

Quote:

My E17 is driving my 250ohm DT880s with my MBP at full volume (USB DAC as well as amping) and the E17 at 22 right now. Not sure why you need to turn it up all the way, mine would be STUPID loud if I turned the E17 to max. Even 40 would be loud as hell.

 
What is loud or quiet is different for everyone, and it also depends on the dynamic range of the music.

 

[yokken]

Quote:

 
What is loud or quiet is different for everyone, and it also depends on the dynamic range of the music.

 
I understand that, but having loud volume at 22 versus having to turn it up to at least 50 to get loud volume is a huge discrepancy. It's not subjective -- I guarantee anyone would tell you my cans would be deafening at 50.