[psikey]

+1
Guilty. I bought expensive balanced cable for my S8F thinking it will give me some audible upgrade. SE is just fine at least to my aged ears. But I still have a nice cable. Again I wanted to buy BTR5 as a upgrade to ES100. As I am really satisfied with ES100 performance I actually don't see a reason to do so after reading some comments here. I might get 5K we'll see...

Based on some stating balanced not needed or no better with IEM's I set one of my SE846's on balanced and other on SE with comparable quality cables and did some A-B'ing at work today. No mater what the logic/theory my ears are finding the balanced more pleasing/enjoyable.

Not saying SE is bad but something is better. Sounds/feels more 3D/alive/clear. I even swapped around and over with my eyes closed so I didn't know which I was using then checked when I thought is was the balanced and picked it out every time, so I'll go on my ears on this.

 

[progdvd]

Based on some stating balanced not needed or no better with IEM's I set one of my SE846's on balanced and other on SE with comparable quality cables and did some A-B'ing at work today. No mater what the logic/theory my ears are finding the balanced more pleasing/enjoyable.

Not saying SE is bad but something is better. Sounds/feels more 3D/alive/clear. I even swapped around and over with my eyes closed so I didn't know which I was using then checked when I thought is was the balanced and picked it out every time, so I'll go on my ears on this.

Maybe SE846 scales up better IDK.
S8F are meant to be driven of a low powered sources as they are very efficient and sensitive. Never AB directly and honestly I don't think I'd pass the blind test.... Now I'm curious, I'm gonna test it...

EDIT
OK just a quick 5 min test.
Test song: Seventh Wonder - Tiara's Song acoustic version
Codec: FLAC, via 990k ldac
Gear: Mate 9, ES100, Fearless S8F, with electro acousti 99% silver + 7n OCC Copper Litz in balanced and same SE adapter.

It was a quick 5 min test but honestly i got nothing, both SE and bal. sound the same to me.

 

[psikey]

Maybe SE846 scales up better IDK.
S8F are meant to be driven of a low powered sources as they are very efficient and sensitive. Never AB directly and honestly I don't think I'd pass the blind test.... Now I'm curious, I'm gonna test it...

Balanced cable was 8 Core silver coat copper and SE silver coat cable but balanced was a the short 45cm while the SE was a normal long cable but can't see that having much if any effect.

 

[abitdeef]

Well whatever you think of balanced, fiio made the balanced out of this better than the 3.5 out. The difference is readily apparent especially with revealing iems. Besides more power it's got better seperation between notes and the dynamics are better.

This was also the case with the Sony zx300, they just put more work onto the balanced out. Now most I don't notice much difference from 3.5 to balanced except more power.

And also to my ears this sounds quite a bit better than ES100, I'm talking about no EQ-ing and balanced outs. But yes they could just as easily make a 3.5 jack with more power, although 2 grounds does make the circuit more efficient.

 

[psikey]

Well whatever you think of balanced, fiio made the balanced out of this better than the 3.5 out. The difference is readily apparent especially with revealing iems. Besides more power it's got better seperation between notes and the dynamics are better.

This was also the case with the Sony zx300, they just put more work onto the balanced out. Now most I don't notice much difference from 3.5 to balanced except more power.

And also to my ears this sounds quite a bit better than ES100, I'm talking about no EQ-ing and balanced outs. But yes they could just as easily make a 3.5 jack with more power, although 2 grounds does make the circuit more efficient.

With the SE846's it could just be the impedance thing with them being only 8 Ohm. I have some Noble K10U (think 32 ohm) arriving tomorrow so will try them but need to get a balanced cable for them before I can.

Agree, I also noticed with ZX300 and ZX507 but not with previous Fiio X5III or M11 or R5. The ES100 did sound better balanced for me too.

Who knows, we all hear things differently but 2 vs one DAC and variation in cross-talk should have some impact IMO. Command of amp power may also play a part as is the case with headphones.

 

[abitdeef]

With the SE846's it could just be the impedance thing with them being only 8 Ohm. I have some Noble K10U (think 32 ohm) arriving tomorrow so will try them but need to get a balanced cable for them before I can.

Agree, I also noticed with ZX300 and ZX507 but not with previous Fiio X5III or M11 or R5. The ES100 did sound better balanced for me too.

Who knows, we all hear things differently but 2 vs one DAC and variation in cross-talk should have some impact IMO. Command of amp power may also play a part as is the case with headphones.

Maybe mine are 16ohm, but I think fiio might have stuck some extra tantalum or ceramic caps or high quality film resisters in the balanced output path. My guess.

 

[ClieOS]

Maybe mine are 16ohm, but I think fiio might have stuck some extra tantalum or ceramic caps or high quality film resisters in the balanced output path. My guess.

Any caps (especially a small, SMD caps) on the output path will cause a very noticeable roll-off in the bass region. BTR5's SE and balanced output FR curve are both flat enough to indicate that there is no output caps.

 

[abitdeef]

Any caps (especially a small, SMD caps) on the output path will cause a very noticeable roll-off in the bass region. BTR5's SE and balanced output FR curve are both flat enough to indicate that there is no output caps.

That's good to hear, maybe it's just the extra headroom that's making it sound a bit more livelier and spacious on balanced to me. The se out just doesn't sound as good to me.

 

[Hanesu]

That was the first thing I noticed coming from the ES100, that the BTR5 is a much more dynamic sound with more bass. Overall more introducing a V shape but well rounded.

I 100% agree that BTR5 is more dynamic, but after comparing them for weeks side by side, I am pretty sure it‘s the mids that makes them sound different. ES100 has more recessed mids and because of that sounds thinner. I think actually ES100 is more v-shaped while BTR5 slightly w-shaped! Mids are more pushed to the front with the Fiio.

 

[SBranson]

I 100% agree that BTR5 is more dynamic, but after comparing them for weeks side by side, I am pretty sure it‘s the mids that makes them sound different. ES100 has more recessed mids and because of that sounds thinner. I think actually ES100 is more v-shaped while BTR5 slightly w-shaped! Mids are more pushed to the front with the Fiio.

That very well could be.. I haven't compared in a long time except when the battery ran out on my BTR5 so I swapped in the ES100 and couldn't believe how much thinner and less engaging the overall sound was. I didn't really analyze it much beyond the fact that when I first got the BTR5 I thought of selling it as at the time I found it a bit too dynamic. Since I discovered that the stock iPhone music app kinda sucks in comparison with the Hiby or Fiio app for sound quality, I really have grown to like this.

One weird hiccup I'm encountering.. if I pause it for too long, say 10 mins.. the unpause on the BTR5 unit won't work. I have to press play on my iphone. I haven't really explored it much but it's kind of strange. Admittedly I don't read manuals or anything so maybe it's a normal sleep mode or something.. It's not the power off thing as that's set for 30 mins and the connection still shows as active on my phone.. and sound comes out when I press play on the phone.

 

[Forsaked]

That very well could be.. I haven't compared in a long time except when the battery ran out on my BTR5 so I swapped in the ES100 and couldn't believe how much thinner and less engaging the overall sound was. I didn't really analyze it much beyond the fact that when I first got the BTR5 I thought of selling it as at the time I found it a bit too dynamic. Since I discovered that the stock iPhone music app kinda sucks in comparison with the Hiby or Fiio app for sound quality, I really have grown to like this.

Same for me, first it was different and "overloaded" compared to the ES100 and now i really like it.
The Shuoer Tape really shine with the BTR5 compared to the ES100, without even using the EQ (which don't work on LDAC)!

 

[abitdeef]

Same for me, first it was different and "overloaded" compared to the ES100 and now i really like it.
The Shuoer Tape really shine with the BTR5 compared to the ES100, without even using the EQ (which don't work on LDAC)!

The fiio eq kind of sucks anyways. Hiby eq works on ldac as does mseb. Neutron peq works on ldac too and is much better than fiio eq. Both don't cut the sound, they're like Sony and Cowon's eq.

So if you want to eq ldac I'd use one of those 2 apps. You can still use fiio control app with either. Hiby is more user friendly and neutron is more involved.

 

[Forsaked]

The fiio eq kind of sucks anyways. Hiby eq works on ldac as does mseb. Neutron peq works on ldac too and is much better than fiio eq. Both don't cut the sound, they're like Sony and Cowon's eq.

So if you want to eq ldac I'd use one of those 2 apps. You can still use fiio control app with either. Hiby is more user friendly and neutron is more involved.

I use UAPP which also has a PEQ if i disable bitperfect mode.
But since i like the sound signature of my Tapes with teh BTR5, i don't need to EQ anyting.

 

[ClieOS]

The fiio eq kind of sucks anyways. Hiby eq works on ldac as does mseb. Neutron peq works on ldac too and is much better than fiio eq. Both don't cut the sound, they're like Sony and Cowon's eq.

So if you want to eq ldac I'd use one of those 2 apps. You can still use fiio control app with either. Hiby is more user friendly and neutron is more involved.

Ok, this is a little over simplified and worth a bit of explanation:

When you are referring to Hiby EQ, I assume you means the EQ in HibiMusic app? That EQ system is software based and so it applied to the music before it was sent to BTR5 via LDAC. Same is true for Neutron. In fact FiiO Music app also works the same way and will work just fine when used with BTR5. The EQ system built into the BTR5 is however very different as it is hardware based, relying on the BT chip's internal DSP system to do the job. It is different in the way that music is sent over Bluetooth (SBC, AAC, atpX, etc) unchanged, then BTR5's internal DSP will apply the EQ. In contrast, HibiMusic / FiiO Music / Neutron apply the EQ onto the music before it was sent over via BT, so BTR5's DSP doesn't actually need to do anything extra. Now I explained it before in this thread, the reason for BTR5 EQ not working on LDAC has to do with Qualcomm firmware limitation on the DSP system. As far as I know, only ES100 is capable of applying EQ on LDAC because they use a highly customized firmware. FiiO is working on a customized firmware as well, though we have not idea if it will truly come or not. Technically HibyMusic and Neutron doesn't EQ on the LDAC itself, since EQ is applied before the music is sent over BT. I have tested EQ on Hiby W3 and W5, and neither has working EQ over LDAC, likely because of the same firmware limitation faced by FiiO.

 

[abitdeef]

Ok, this is a little over simplified and worth a bit of explanation:

When you are referring to Hiby EQ, I assume you means the EQ in HibiMusic app? That EQ system is software based and so it applied to the music before it was sent to BTR5 via LDAC. Same is true for Neutron. In fact FiiO Music app also works the same way and will work just fine when used with BTR5. The EQ system built into the BTR5 is however very different as it is hardware based, relying on the BT chip's internal DSP system to do the job. It is different in the way that music is sent over Bluetooth (SBC, AAC, atpX, etc) unchanged, then BTR5's internal DSP will apply the EQ. In contrast, HibiMusic / FiiO Music / Neutron apply the EQ onto the music before it was sent over via BT, so BTR5's DSP doesn't actually need to do anything extra. Now I explained it before in this thread, the reason for BTR5 EQ not working on LDAC has to do with Qualcomm firmware limitation on the DSP system. As far as I know, only ES100 is capable of applying EQ on LDAC because they use a highly customized firmware. FiiO is working on a customized firmware as well, though we have not idea if it will truly come or not. Technically HibyMusic and Neutron doesn't EQ on the LDAC itself, since EQ is applied before the music is sent over BT. I have tested EQ on Hiby W3 and W5, and neither has working EQ over LDAC, likely because of the same firmware limitation faced by FiiO.

Yes understood that. But it's still applies eq to your ldac stuff in the end- or sends an eq"d signal over, and most eq is software based anyways. I only posted it because people acted like there was no way to apply eq to ldac, which isn't true.
And I don't personally like the fact that the fiio eq neuters the volume- I know it's for clipping I just prefer more of the Sony, Cowon implementation.

I haven't even been using eq, I'm happy just like the previous poster with the base sound. I felt like I needed eq on the es100 but not on the btr5. Yes the software suite was better on the ES100 for sure but with the overall sound quality of the fiio it evens out imo.