[connieflyer]

It was a joke

 

[hypnos1]

ps. @Johnnysound and anyone interested, I asked xulingmrs to make adapters for the GU50 a few days ago and they agreed. I expect it's taking longer than usual because of the need for extra work in attaching external heater wires, so hopefully they'll be available some time next week. Will keep y'all informed...CJ

 

[connieflyer]

Thanks for doing this for us C.J. You the man!

 

[hypnos1]

OK guys...information update on the quad of GU50s (plus interim dual GEC TT21/GU50 power findings).

But first, a word re. adapters from Mrsx. It looks like they take a good long break over Chinese New Year...until 15th Feb, no less!!! And no listing yet, so presumably unable to finish any before the hols...but will keep checking just in case lol . Ah well, at least it gives folks who might be interested a bit of a break/breather after the KT project!!

Speaking of which, I know this is in some ways - for me at least! - a double-edged sword, but with now well over 100 hrs on all 4 GU50s I can confirm that this tube does indeed surpass ALL previous ones (driver and power) I have used in my system...including the EL39 and 7581A/KT66/KT88 (plus, of course, the famous GEC/Osram 6AS7G family).

As with the first 2x 50s, vocal positioning led me a merry dance until after about 40 hrs (including several 1 hr cooling periods) it returned to its wonderfully intimate state, after sounding a bit recessed. And with even more time on them, the quad combo took a leap in the treble arena also...outperforming even the GEC TT21 by a good margin, and leaving the excellent treble of the C3g in its wake, in both range and sibilance handling...and with bass and mids the C3g can only dream of lol! The quad's overall 'clean' delivery and clarity have also never been matched, let alone surpassed.

And so it pains me to think of the large sums of money I've spent over the past few years on tubes that are indeed no match for this GU50...regardless of price/reputation. But then, that's the nature of this (obsessive! ) hobby of ours, no?!!

Anyway, on to the GEC TT21. First, I will say that good though it is, I do not recommend anyone spending the kind of money they command...stick with the KTs of choice (but originals still probably beyond most folks' wallets alas). And overall, the GU50 is in fact a better performer. However, the TT21s sub-bass - the sort of frequencies you feel, rather than hear - is quite exceptional, and so a nice addition to the otherwise greater bass range of the GU50. And thankfully, my initial experiment with 1x set of dualed TT21/GU50 as power confirmed that they do marry and complement each other perfectly...and so, no doubt, with the 2nd set in situ, I'm sure bass will be even more exciting...along with a few other additions courtesy of the 2 (different) powers per channel (hopefully to be discovered later today ...). Will keep you informed...CJ

 

[connieflyer]

CJ.CJ,Cj, you keep dragging me down the rabbit hole, and I have tried very hard not to go this time. Had ammunition this time, tubes rather plain (okay, ugly) and in need of special adapters, and a separate power supply. So I thought to myself, okay I've got this one! I have reasons not to follow this time, and I am quite happy with the KT77, KT88 combo, so I can resist you! Always read your updates with much interest, but the fall back position is "I can resist this time, as I have REASONS! Then I read the ongoing posts, and think (privately, to myself) wow sounding rather good. But the resistance is strong this time, I have put my foot down, in the public square, and will not be dissuaded to resist. Now to present, I read with envy your results and try hard to resist, but if you take the top metal cap off, the tube does look better. And really, how many times have I had to buy separate adapters. True, but I never had to have a separate power supply, of course they are cheap. And the tubes themselves are rediculously inexpensive. When have you ever purchased such inexpensive tubes? And now I have found numerous tube amps using this same tube with great results. Oh my, the nasty scales of balance are working against me. But with the last ounce of resistance, but the tubes are ugly. There I am back in command. Thoughts keep nagging me, what is happening to my sound judgement up till now? But the tubes are ugly! But then I remember a woman that was, shall we say, less than attrative , that was a friend, and she would invite me over for dinner some times. And the food was sooooo delicious that after a time, she started looking pretty good. In fact several pounds later, she was looking really good! So the long and the short of it C.J. is I am basically weakened to the point of standing on the brink of destruction, and peering over the edge one more time. You sir, are bringing temptation that is almost to hard to resist. I may not read your next update post, for fear I will once again follow you in the quest for even better sound. Almost there, my friend!

 

[teknorob23]

First off sorry this Euforia AE update has been so long in coming, yet again i return to see my KT188's are now very much last years news. Good job they sound so damn good with AE/H2/Stellia triumvirate playing mostly electronic music, so much so i've been reluctant to swap them out for EL39/EL11, the tube combo i know the best, in order that i can make some slightly more reliable comparisons to the standard Mk2 Euforia (as i had not tried the KT88s on the old amp before it went). The EL39/11s have been in all weekend, and wow they sound good too, slightly sweeter than the KT88 quad and maybe a touch more relaxed. They dont have the pace or quite the levels of detail, the bass is deep but cant compete in terms of resolution and scale. All of that said there's still something special about this combo that means i'm not in any rush to swap back just yet.

But what about the AE? before i start, i have a string of disclaimers: my comparative impressions are 99% based on my increasing addled memory, with only a very brief back to back demo 2 months ago, at just over a month old the AE is very much still the new toy in my set up and of course all of this is based on being used exclusively with my partnering kit.

The amp is at about 200hrs+ (i've stopped counting) and i have to say, I dont know how much run in time it had at the factory, but it sounded very good out of the box. The staging is noticeably more expansive in all directions, and clarity and amount detail that floods through to fill the stage, but with amazing control, focus and dynamism, its breath taking. My old amp had all of these traits, but listening the AE i get a similar impression to when i first heard the Euforia after demo'ing the Elise. My Euforia was just perfect, amazing, love at first sight and then i hear the AE all the good stuff is just turned up to 11, or perhaps 12 or even 13. The stage is bigger and way deeper, the bass goes lower the highs are more extended too. Its like the whole frequency range has gone widescreen. The mids are expanded almost more than any other area and i'm hearing levels of detail here that i've just not heard on any head amp. I made the unfashionable decision to sell the ZMF VCs and kept the Stellias, because the tuning is more forward, the presentation is more dynamic and the detail is just better too, but the mids were the clincher, and the with AE i'm hearing detail, but packaged in such beautifully musical way that i've just not heard before and especially in the middle. It really feels like i'm getting almost every bit of detail the Hugo2 can offer, all through the range. It feels like the AE has come into my system and every other component has just had to raise its game or maybe have just been a collectively stretching of legs, showing of potential.

Before i ordered the AE, i had been getting very close to risking penury by pulling the trigger on the Hugo TT2, which i had demo'd 4 times, with and without the Euforia it sounded stunning. The AE arrived late, nearly too late, so i listened to almost out of politeness to Jack at Audiobarn as my mind was made up. Bearing in mind also it was pretty much stone cold, straight out of the box, and i had been listening to my Euforia with TT2 for couple hours already, the AE had me with first track i played through it, which happened to be Radiohead/ good morning mr magpie (nothing special in audiophile terms but its become a tradition for christening new gear), and by the end of the 3rd song headphones, were off and i was downstairs asking about lead times and if i could prize this one out of his hands.

One other feature i should mention is its prowess as a preamp. I have been using daily with my Primare AV Amp/ PMC Twenty5.22 and its been nothing short of revelation, because while i liked the old amp, i did find the synergy with my Hifi gear wasn't great, i was losing too much detail and the bass was a little out of control and the stage was little congested compared to coming straight out of the DAC, but here the AE is like a different machine entirely. The Primare, while musical can sound a little analytical, but with the AE, fed by the H2, the clarity and detail are very good, as is the control and separation in the bass, the stage is expansive yet focused, all with that lovely body, naturalness of tone i got in spades listening to the Euforia as headamp. Essentially i cant listen to music through speakers without it, which was not the case at all before.

So all in all combining the comprehensive upgrade as a headamp and its revelatory performance in my set up as a preamp, the AE feels like one of the best if not the best value upgrades i've made in my hifi life. Hats off to Lukasz and his team, its a serious accomplishment to take an already wonderful amp, make what looks on paper to be just a few tweaks, to end up with machine that more expensive yet feels better value than its outstanding sibling. All of course helped by the Euforia's rock solid 2nd hand value.

I'm searching for a downside and the best i can do, is to confirm, as was widely predicted when the AE was announced, the new paint job is a serious dust magnet

I come back to my caveats, i am firmly in middle of the honeymoon period and i loved my Euforia as it was, so i'll let you know how the AE and i feel about each other in another 200hrs. .

Edit: One big caveat to my impressions must be the music i listen to. I'm going through an almost exclusively electronic phase, mainly because theres been so much good stuff coming out over the last 18-24mts: Heres just a few highlights

 

[LoryWiv]

CJ.CJ,Cj, you keep dragging me down the rabbit hole, and I have tried very hard not to go this time. Had ammunition this time, tubes rather plain (okay, ugly) and in need of special adapters, and a separate power supply. So I thought to myself, okay I've got this one! I have reasons not to follow this time, and I am quite happy with the KT77, KT88 combo, so I can resist you! Always read your updates with much interest, but the fall back position is "I can resist this time, as I have REASONS! Then I read the ongoing posts, and think (privately, to myself) wow sounding rather good. But the resistance is strong this time, I have put my foot down, in the public square, and will not be dissuaded to resist. Now to present, I read with envy your results and try hard to resist, but if you take the top metal cap off, the tube does look better. And really, how many times have I had to buy separate adapters. True, but I never had to have a separate power supply, of course they are cheap. And the tubes themselves are rediculously inexpensive. When have you ever purchased such inexpensive tubes? And now I have found numerous tube amps using this same tube with great results. Oh my, the nasty scales of balance are working against me. But with the last ounce of resistance, but the tubes are ugly. There I am back in command. Thoughts keep nagging me, what is happening to my sound judgement up till now? But the tubes are ugly! But then I remember a woman that was, shall we say, less than attrative , that was a friend, and she would invite me over for dinner some times. And the food was sooooo delicious that after a time, she started looking pretty good. In fact several pounds later, she was looking really good! So the long and the short of it C.J. is I am basically weakened to the point of standing on the brink of destruction, and peering over the edge one more time. You sir, are bringing temptation that is almost to hard to resist. I may not read your next update post, for fear I will once again follow you in the quest for even better sound. Almost there, my friend!

To quote the Borg: "Resistance is futile"! Or perhaps there is a 12 step AA meeting we can attend: "Audiophiles Anonymous".

 

[connieflyer]

LoryWiv funny, I was going to quote that but did not know how many would have heard it world wide. But since you brought it up, with C.J. the force is strong in that one!

 

[hypnos1]

CJ.CJ,Cj, you keep dragging me down the rabbit hole, and I have tried very hard not to go this time. Had ammunition this time, tubes rather plain (okay, ugly) and in need of special adapters, and a separate power supply. So I thought to myself, okay I've got this one! I have reasons not to follow this time, and I am quite happy with the KT77, KT88 combo, so I can resist you! Always read your updates with much interest, but the fall back position is "I can resist this time, as I have REASONS! Then I read the ongoing posts, and think (privately, to myself) wow sounding rather good. But the resistance is strong this time, I have put my foot down, in the public square, and will not be dissuaded to resist. Now to present, I read with envy your results and try hard to resist, but if you take the top metal cap off, the tube does look better. And really, how many times have I had to buy separate adapters. True, but I never had to have a separate power supply, of course they are cheap. And the tubes themselves are rediculously inexpensive. When have you ever purchased such inexpensive tubes? And now I have found numerous tube amps using this same tube with great results. Oh my, the nasty scales of balance are working against me. But with the last ounce of resistance, but the tubes are ugly. There I am back in command. Thoughts keep nagging me, what is happening to my sound judgement up till now? But the tubes are ugly! But then I remember a woman that was, shall we say, less than attrative , that was a friend, and she would invite me over for dinner some times. And the food was sooooo delicious that after a time, she started looking pretty good. In fact several pounds later, she was looking really good! So the long and the short of it C.J. is I am basically weakened to the point of standing on the brink of destruction, and peering over the edge one more time. You sir, are bringing temptation that is almost to hard to resist. I may not read your next update post, for fear I will once again follow you in the quest for even better sound. Almost there, my friend!

Hi cf...and am so sorry for putting you through the mangle yet again lol! You have indeed endured one progression after another these past years mon ami, and in the process amassed a good few (now pretty well obsolete!) tubes, even though they do sometimes make for interesting new partnerships . And yes, the GU50 does bring with it a couple of downsides for those who need to rely on 3rd party adapters, and play around with separate heater power supplies (but which isn't too difficult for the unititiated!). And yes again, it must be about the most unprepossessing tube out there . But it does look better without the silly top hat and metal cover...which I have now managed to remove, and quite easily actually And it certainly benefits from the blue LEDs!!

But whatever D, I can fully understand your firm(?!!) stance on going any further down that rabbit hole, and suggest waiting for anyone else's experience before giving in lol! ...But given the $hundreds' worth sound this GU50 package delivers - for peanuts - it is most certainly a no-brainer for anyone without such a large stash of tubes and willing to go the extra mile....

Had hoped to have the second set of dual GU50/GEC TT21 powers finished today, so I could showcase my own 'Special Edition' Euforia, but connecting them up without the use of any more sockets; adding LEDs and getting away from the usual less-than-aesthetically-pleasing multi look is far trickier than I imagined...but at least I now have the first channel sorted to my satisfaction, rather than looking experimental!! Should have the rest finished tomorrow, with any luck...and going by even just one finished side, I can safely say this sound is unlike anything I've ever heard before from my Euforia. In fact, the differences are very similar to what you describe @teknorob23 re. your AE model! ...(would have loved to hear them side-by-side, but appears it wasn't meant to be alas...). I just wish that price was a tad lower... although you seem happy enough about that tr?

Anyway guys, in Euforia and Elise we now have a wealth of tubes that both can enjoy, in many different combinations that were never envisaged in their early days. And thereby punch in ever higher categories...ENJOY!...CJ

 

[connieflyer]

Quite right C.J. about all the tubes that have been bought and each new addition brings something special. Have not ruled these out, can't wait to see what you have done with the led's and the "other" adapter you talked about.

 

[connieflyer]

I have been thinking along the lines of a few upgrades to the amp itself, along the lines of what was done with the new AE. Might be worth looking into.

 

[teknorob23]

Hi cf...and am so sorry for putting you through the mangle yet again lol! You have indeed endured one progression after another these past years mon ami, and in the process amassed a good few (now pretty well obsolete!) tubes, even though they do sometimes make for interesting new partnerships . And yes, the GU50 does bring with it a couple of downsides for those who need to rely on 3rd party adapters, and play around with separate heater power supplies (but which isn't too difficult for the unititiated!). And yes again, it must be about the most unprepossessing tube out there . But it does look better without the silly top hat and metal cover...which I have now managed to remove, and quite easily actually And it certainly benefits from the blue LEDs!!

But whatever D, I can fully understand your firm(?!!) stance on going any further down that rabbit hole, and suggest waiting for anyone else's experience before giving in lol! ...But given the $hundreds' worth sound this GU50 package delivers - for peanuts - it is most certainly a no-brainer for anyone without such a large stash of tubes and willing to go the extra mile....

Had hoped to have the second set of dual GU50/GEC TT21 powers finished today, so I could showcase my own 'Special Edition' Euforia, but connecting them up without the use of any more sockets; adding LEDs and getting away from the usual less-than-aesthetically-pleasing multi look is far trickier than I imagined...but at least I now have the first channel sorted to my satisfaction, rather than looking experimental!! Should have the rest finished tomorrow, with any luck...and going by even just one finished side, I can safely say this sound is unlike anything I've ever heard before from my Euforia. In fact, the differences are very similar to what you describe @teknorob23 re. your AE model! ...(would have loved to hear them side-by-side, but appears it wasn't meant to be alas...). I just wish that price was a tad lower... although you seem happy enough about that tr?

Anyway guys, in Euforia and Elise we now have a wealth of tubes that both can enjoy, in many different combinations that were never envisaged in their early days. And thereby punch in ever higher categories...ENJOY!...CJ

CJ you're teasing me with yet another stunning tube combination, so just to be clear with these tubes i would have an AE SE?? mmmmm But i'm really enjoying the quad of KT88's which seem ideally suited to my music taste, but, but, what if?..... On the price front before i heard the AE i thought it looked punchy based on the listed upgrades, but as i say the performance to my ears at least is far greater than the some of its apparent parts, so much so it feels like one of the best value upgrades ive made. At 2200 without tubes, if i'd come to this as fresh as i did with my old amp last year having been a lifelong solid stater, based on the SQ alone if they'd said £3k i would still see as good value. Whether i could have afforded is a different matter

 

[hypnos1]

Quite right C.J. about all the tubes that have been bought and each new addition brings something special. Have not ruled these out, can't wait to see what you have done with the led's and the "other" adapter you talked about.

Well cf, first off I have to apologise for focusing upon a project I know is beyond the reach of anyone not seriously into DIY/tinkering...this last one has taxed even my own meagre skills I'm still trying to master lol! ...(a bit of a pig, in fact!! ). But then, I didn't make things easier for myself by not using sockets for the dualing; wanting something less apparent than usual, and with the added burden of 4x heater cables and 4x LED cables! Especially given the (very) limited space available!!

Anyway, after a good few choice words, today I managed to get everything installed and up and running...and my efforts have been handsomely rewarded (thank the Gods ). In fact the result has far exceeded expectations...ie. I anticipated just that extra dose of low frequency oomph!, and wasn't prepared for what the TT21/GU50 power combo per channel actually delivers...another case of 'The whole being more than the sum of the parts'. I thought the more restrained, laid back GEC TT21s would have been held back somewhat by the more energetic GU50s, but on the contrary...there's much more I never even realised either of them possessed lol! Obviously, their different individual characters prevented any attempt to outperform each other, complementing and adding to overall performance.

The entire sound has taken on a new dimension...way beyond anything my setup has produced up until now, and must definitely be a match for anything much more expensive. And so has finally cured me of all thoughts of looking at another amp...for a good long while yet, at least!

Now a pic or 2 of the culmination of years of struggle (and heartache!)...but now worth every single bit of it ...

ps. Forgot to take a photo of the 'adapter' cradle, so a template for making a wooden one will have to do I'm afraid!








pps. Can I (and others!) now rest in peace lol?...please!! ...CHEERS!...CJ
ppps. And no, D...I don't believe anyone has found a $3 tube to come anywhere near this GU50!!...(which begs the question of just how many Roubles must have been spent on the obviously enormous stockpile of Russian military tubes that were "too expensive (to make) to be put on the commercial market" in any great quantity)...

CJ you're teasing me with yet another stunning tube combination, so just to be clear with these tubes i would have an AE SE?? mmmmm But i'm really enjoying the quad of KT88's which seem ideally suited to my music taste, but, but, what if?..... On the price front before i heard the AE i thought it looked punchy based on the listed upgrades, but as i say the performance to my ears at least is far greater than the some of its apparent parts, so much so it feels like one of the best value upgrades ive made. At 2200 without tubes, if i'd come to this as fresh as i did with my old amp last year having been a lifelong solid stater, based on the SQ alone if they'd said £3k i would still see as good value. Whether i could have afforded is a different matter

Hi tr. Glad you like the KT88 quad...(but keep a weather eye out for some cheap(?!!) GEC TT21s lol. You never know, you just might get lucky one day!! ).

Glad also you find the cost of the AE amp to be worth it...those upgrades do indeed appear to raise performance higher than one might at first suspect, and so would certainly deserve serious consideration for someone looking at a new Euforia...(and which does indeed beg the question @connieflyer - could similar results be obtained by changing caps/wiring/resistors alone? But I do believe it also has an upgraded trafo, which wouldn't be cheap of course! ). However, to any serious DIYers out there, I personally would say - find a pair of reasonably priced GEC TT21s (if possible); add 4x GU50s and replicate my experiment if you possibly can...and spend the saving on a pair of Meze Empyrean headphones lol! ...and never look back!!

 

[connieflyer]

Nicely done, C.J., looks great! Glad you are getting this all just right to your liking. So when are you going to offer all these additions,adapters, led's in kit form? Looks like a winner! The price of $2200 for the SE amp is great, here in the states we only have one distributor and he does not offer tubeless, have to get the whole shooting match for about $3500, at that price I am not interested in it. I emailed Feliks to see if I can order from them direct without tubes, but I doubt it, when I asked about ordering from them direct they said I would have to go through their distributor, so does not look good. Oh well, happy with the KT77,KT88 more so than I did with a quad of KT88's. Think about all the fun you would have if you offered all the additions like you have now,, why you would be rich, and tired I would imagine. Glad it looks so good, would you offer it with green led's?

 

[hypnos1]

Nicely done, C.J., looks great! Glad you are getting this all just right to your liking. So when are you going to offer all these additions,adapters, led's in kit form? Looks like a winner! The price of $2200 for the SE amp is great, here in the states we only have one distributor and he does not offer tubeless, have to get the whole shooting match for about $3500, at that price I am not interested in it. I emailed Feliks to see if I can order from them direct without tubes, but I doubt it, when I asked about ordering from them direct they said I would have to go through their distributor, so does not look good. Oh well, happy with the KT77,KT88 more so than I did with a quad of KT88's. Think about all the fun you would have if you offered all the additions like you have now,, why you would be rich, and tired I would imagine. Glad it looks so good, would you offer it with green led's?

Thanks cf...Well, mon ami, were I 10 years younger (and had a stash of GEC TT21s!) I might well have seriously considered your idea of a giant-killer kit for our amps lol ...sadly life has other ideas alas.... But honestly ol' boy, green LEDs?...where did that come from, with the blue looking so gorgeous?!! ...(not thinking of joining the equivalent of our political 'Green Party' are you D?!...good intentions, but unfortunately the real world is not so straightforward IMHO ).

Anyway, after my very pleasant surprise yesterday re. the sextet's performance via the Empyreans I obviously needed to see how it sounds as pre-amp to my Tannoys...and I sit here at the laptop once again hardly believing the sound that surrounds me. Every bit as impressive as what the combo does for cans...if not even more so. Although the dual TT21/GU50 (in parallel) powers don't actually mean lower volume knob setting - (@Johnnysound ), loud passages especially hit with greater dynamism and authority, confirming that multiple tubes do indeed bring this welcome benefit along with possibly others, depending upon the synergy between the different tubes used (the TT21 and GU50 don't clash with each other at all for example).

And this also reflects the reason why F-A chose two drivers rather than using just one double triode - they too found that doubling drives low impedance outputs especially much better...so, good for the 32 Ohm Empyreans and pre-amp out it would appear .

ps. Still can't work out how this multi-combo can deliver even more detail than was present in either of the 2 tubes...the magical nature of these glass wonders of ours constantly amazes/surprises me...how can a 'static' solid state animal ever compare in this respect lol?! ...CHEERS!...CJ