[Johnnysound]

Yo DL...according to the French enthusiasts' blog, the version with red band is not in the same league as the later silver banded one - the so-called 'ProGold', with the gold signal grid wires. So I trust their judgment lol!

Most French blogs that I have read (from enthusiasts to true amp builders) were around the EL39s as being superior to the mythical Mullards EL37s, in turn regarded as the “ultimate” EL34 type in terms of sound quality...and as so commanding absurdly high prices. All this as power pentodes of course. On the other hand, certainly the EL37 (and probably the EL38 as well) were at the time a new dual purpose triode/pentode design, something that is not clear about the EL39...

I do not have EL37s (wish I could) but do have EL34s (old Mullards , Siemens, and new ElectroHarmonix) and all are GREAT sounding tubes in my PA...but a quartet of EL39s is on a higher sonic dimension (maybe the French guys are right). The trademark deep, super nice but kind of loose bass of the 34s was replaced by a strong, deep&tight bass authority, while retaining the unique, marvelous musicality of the EL34s. Kind of dark at first, and burn in steadily improved detail and nuance...but within a much more powerful tube than the EL34, one of superior bandwidth extension and dynamics. A true power tube that likes to be heated on and “rock&roll” like hell driving my speakers.

With the EL39s as power triodes in Euforia driving my dual mono NAD ss amps...come on, I knew what was coming: the most powerful bass & dynamics I have ever heard from my gear...ever. Of course, CF’s nice ss amp and SVS towers would really awake under such an input, as well as H1 gear. I still wonder why an OTL preamp is the perfect partner for an ss amp. Have found no answers, but it is like that anyway.

However , I am under the spell of a full tube setup, and while my ss amps sound & bass was awesome, with such “world class” power tubes in my PA I heard even better, extraordinarily deep & meaningful bass as the foundation of an utterly musical, lovely sound.

About the “red band” EL39s, obviously not the “premium” (silver band) gold grid version, but are they really sonically inferior ? Only real tests would tell. The dark glass EL38s have gold grids, while the clear ones have not, and they are very close sonically...

 

[chrisdrop]

OK, proceeding with optimism here...

I have been over old posts on this forum quite a bit. I have been trying to compile a spreadsheet of tube recommendations & compatibility (inspired by a google sheets page someone made for Glenn amps). There is quite a lot of awesome alt-tube strategy on this forum. These typically require adaptors, etc. There are also some tubes that seem awesome, but are perhaps unattainable unicorns.

I looking for recommendations for; good tubes (or tube combos) - that are natively supported (no-adaptor), that are somewhat available. I am certainly happy to post/ share the resultant sheet of tubes once compiled. I will also track/ include the adaptor tube combos in the sheet, but I am particularly keen to know about the native tubes.

Thanks in advance,
Chris

N.B. I have NOT done the same scouring of forums for the Elise yet. It is possible that something like this exists there too and - if relevant to the Euforia, I'd be very glad to know if it!

 

[ZRW0]

OK, proceeding with optimism here...

I have been over old posts on this forum quite a bit. I have been trying to compile a spreadsheet of tube recommendations & compatibility (inspired by a google sheets page someone made for Glenn amps). There is quite a lot of awesome alt-tube strategy on this forum. These typically require adaptors, etc. There are also some tubes that seem awesome, but are perhaps unattainable unicorns.

I looking for recommendations for; good tubes (or tube combos) - that are natively supported (no-adaptor), that are somewhat available. I am certainly happy to post/ share the resultant sheet of tubes once compiled. I will also track/ include the adaptor tube combos in the sheet, but I am particularly keen to know about the native tubes.

Thanks in advance,
Chris

N.B. I have NOT done the same scouring of forums for the Elise yet. It is possible that something like this exists there too and - if relevant to the Euforia, I'd be very glad to know if it!

Based on my past experience with the Euforia:

For powers, I'd definitely recommend Tung-Sol 5998 Chrome Top (the non-chrome top version is actually a rebranded Western Electric 421A, hence a unicorn).
Fast, quite comprehensive in all domains, reliable. Not cheap, yet still relatively easy to find.

For drivers, it's a shame you really exclude adapters, as 7N7 or 6F8G/VT99 were to me probably the best triode drivers for the Euforia.
BTW, the 7N7 is an evolution of the 6SN7 where just the size and length of pins were changed, there's not even a different layout. Here I would have recommended RCA 7N7.
6F8G(or VT99) are officially supported by the Euforia, but require adapters. Here I'd have recommended Ken-Rad VT-99

Still for drivers, without any adapters at all, then Ken-Rad VT-231, but it has started to become a unicorn. Otherwise, Sylvania 6SN7GTB, or Melz 6N8S.

 

[chrisdrop]

For drivers, it's a shame you really exclude adapters, as 7N7 or 6F8G/VT99 were to me probably the best triode drivers for the Euforia.

Tx @ZRW0. I will certainly include adapters, but I did want to get a picture of some normally supported valves too. I will put these all into my sheet and post on google at some point soon with a link for any other interested bystanders. (I will include the adapter based valve recommends too!)

 

[mordy]

Different minds, different tastes:
I did a lot of tube rolling in the Euforia. Using native tubes (no adapters) the best sound for my taste I got from of a pair of GEC 6080 (not inexpensive) and a pair of 1952-55 Foton 6H8C tubes with ribbed anodes.
BTW, all 7N7 were made by Sylvania (except for National Union - hard to find). Any brand will do - they are all Sylvanias. The rebranded ones are inexpensive if bought right.

 

[hypnos1]

OK, proceeding with optimism here...

I have been over old posts on this forum quite a bit. I have been trying to compile a spreadsheet of tube recommendations & compatibility (inspired by a google sheets page someone made for Glenn amps). There is quite a lot of awesome alt-tube strategy on this forum. These typically require adaptors, etc. There are also some tubes that seem awesome, but are perhaps unattainable unicorns.

I looking for recommendations for; good tubes (or tube combos) - that are natively supported (no-adaptor), that are somewhat available. I am certainly happy to post/ share the resultant sheet of tubes once compiled. I will also track/ include the adaptor tube combos in the sheet, but I am particularly keen to know about the native tubes.

Thanks in advance,
Chris

N.B. I have NOT done the same scouring of forums for the Elise yet. It is possible that something like this exists there too and - if relevant to the Euforia, I'd be very glad to know if it!

Hi Chris.

That's a noble and valiant task you've set yourself, and the sort that can be a useful guide for folks to investigate further. We have indeed covered most configured-for tubes in the (extensive!) Elise threads, and the findings will also apply to Euforia of course!

For a more general synopsis of the 6SN7, I personally found Brent Jesse's coverage of this tube family to be as good/comprehensive as, if not better than, most out there: http://www.audiotubes.com/6sn7.htm

After years of going from 'straight' tubes to various alternatives requiring adapters, I must admit to finding any particular description of a tube's characteristics as a potential minefield lol!! The degree of variance from any kind of general 'concensus' can be quite extreme sometimes - frustratingly and confusingly so in fact! Which is no surprise really, given the vital importance of the rest of one's system on final performance...not to mention personal preference. And so any listing of such tubes' characteristics must perforce be qualified accordingly ...GOOD LUCK, mon ami! ...CJ

 

[connieflyer]

Hi ZRW0, thanks for mentioning the VT99's I had forgotten about them, used them a lot on the Elise. Have to pull them out and try them with the EL tubes. I have found this page useful in the past on 6sn7's as well
Also agree on Ken-Rad VT-231,and Sylvania 6SN7GTB I still have a pair of these each and always enjoyed them.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the-reference-6sn7-thread.117677/

 

[hypnos1]

Most French blogs that I have read (from enthusiasts to true amp builders) were around the EL39s as being superior to the mythical Mullards EL37s, in turn regarded as the “ultimate” EL34 type in terms of sound quality...and as so commanding absurdly high prices. All this as power pentodes of course. On the other hand, certainly the EL37 (and probably the EL38 as well) were at the time a new dual purpose triode/pentode design, something that is not clear about the EL39...

I do not have EL37s (wish I could) but do have EL34s (old Mullards , Siemens, and new ElectroHarmonix) and all are GREAT sounding tubes in my PA...but a quartet of EL39s is on a higher sonic dimension (maybe the French guys are right). The trademark deep, super nice but kind of loose bass of the 34s was replaced by a strong, deep&tight bass authority, while retaining the unique, marvelous musicality of the EL34s. Kind of dark at first, and burn in steadily improved detail and nuance...but within a much more powerful tube than the EL34, one of superior bandwidth extension and dynamics. A true power tube that likes to be heated on and “rock&roll” like hell driving my speakers.

With the EL39s as power triodes in Euforia driving my dual mono NAD ss amps...come on, I knew what was coming: the most powerful bass & dynamics I have ever heard from my gear...ever. Of course, CF’s nice ss amp and SVS towers would really awake under such an input, as well as H1 gear. I still wonder why an OTL preamp is the perfect partner for an ss amp. Have found no answers, but it is like that anyway.

However , I am under the spell of a full tube setup, and while my ss amps sound & bass was awesome, with such “world class” power tubes in my PA I heard even better, extraordinarily deep & meaningful bass as the foundation of an utterly musical, lovely sound.

About the “red band” EL39s, obviously not the “premium” (silver band) gold grid version, but are they really sonically inferior ? Only real tests would tell. The dark glass EL38s have gold grids, while the clear ones have not, and they are very close sonically...

We both - and others! - agree on the superlative performance of the EL39. And in my own system (albeit now with a 'special' Mazda EL38 as power partner) and driven by mesh-plated EL11s, I still cannot believe how much better they perform than any other top class tubes I've tried over the years, including 'conventional' ones. Every day I become even more amazed at their performance...no other tube has ever continued in this way, long after the new 'infatuation' phase has passed lol! And as with Euforia herself, this EL39 just keeps upping its game in line with any and all improvements to the rest of one's system.

Re. the red-skirted version - which is basically the earlier 4654 but with octal base - the main French blogger that I myself was drawn to was quite emphatic in his obvious dismissal of this tube, compared to the later silver-banded 'ProGold' one. Hence my own reluctance to even see what it can actually do lol ...I shall leave that to anyone else who may be interested!!

On a different (tube) subject, the rave reviews of the 7581A - after @ZRW0 's enthusiastic urging! - have, however, really piqued my interest. And given that so many users rate this tube a good bit above the EL34, have you ever considered it yourself J? I myself can't wait to see if, first...it'll work in Euforia(!!)... and second (if it does), just how it compares to the EL38 and 39. Should be interesting, whatever lol...

ps. This tube has grid 3 already tied to the cathode, unlike the EL34...CHEERS!...CJ
pps. And yes indeed, given the current prices for the fabled EL37, the price most of us got the EL39s for must surely be the bargain of the century lol!!

 

[Johnnysound]

True NOS Tungsram EL11 pair...and their nice boxes that come factory sealed with metal fasteners (never seen that before) so it was fantastic to take the tubes out from their 60 years plus resting place inside the sealed boxes...kind of an “Indiana Jones” episode (haha) and sweeet sounding tubes !! ( even sweeter at less than $20 each). I found their sound much closer to the Valvos than the TFKs, but somehow different. Construction is also quite different, with medium sized round plates and unique “S” shaped cooling fins. The TFKs and RFT have big round plates, while the Valvos are oval...so the Tungsrams are a truly “propietary” version of the EL11... very interesting. The classic hungarian brand is widely known for its excellent sounding tubes, so we’ll see what happens after the mandatory burn-in. So far, I am quite pleased with their sound which is refined, detailed, with very nice bass and overall a touch warmer than other EL11s....and I like it that way.

 

[Johnnysound]

..

 

[hypnos1]

True NOS Tungsram EL11 pair...and their nice boxes that come factory sealed with metal fasteners (never seen that before) so it was fantastic to take the tubes out from their 60 years plus resting place inside the sealed boxes...kind of an “Indiana Jones” episode (haha) and sweeet sounding tubes !! ( even sweeter at less than $20 each). I found their sound much closer to the Valvos than the TFKs, but somehow different. Construction is also quite different, with medium sized round plates and unique “S” shaped cooling fins. The TFKs and RFT have big round plates, while the Valvos are oval...so the Tungsrams are a truly “propietary” version of the EL11... very interesting. The classic hungarian brand is widely known for its excellent sounding tubes, so we’ll see what happens after the mandatory burn-in. So far, I am quite pleased with their sound which is refined, detailed, with very nice bass and overall a touch warmer than other EL11s....and I like it that way.

Hi J.

These 'Tungsram' labelled EL11s do seem to have very interesting provenance lol! There are those with bottles just like the TFK/RFT, but mine are of a different design, having a straight middle section before curving back down to the base, as can be seen below :



Now, one has the Tungsram logo etched into the top of the tube... the other no logo at all, but sold described as a 'Valvo' and in a Valvo box! Both have the Philips-design large oval plate, as per the usual Valvo EL11... and EL3N , which would explain their slightly warmer character than the TFK-design versions. It's interesting that you say your own T/rams have round plates, J, albeit smaller than the German design...

As usual, there was obviously 'fraternisation'/relabelling between different factories..all designed to confuse us poor hobbyists no doubt lol!!

Whatever, they sound excellent...every bit as good as any other EL11 - apart from the uber-rare mesh (woven)-plated versions!


And re. the 7581A power tube, from the user reviews I've read it seems this Russian reissue version is preferred over most others of the 6L6GC family, and certainly much cheaper lol! And which has got my juices flowing quite nicely...just hope I'm not in for a bitter disappointment. But then, this can come with the territory, unfortunately....

ps. As an adjunct to this experiment, if all goes well, I notice that vacuumtubes.com had a re-constructed tube using the 7581A internals of the Philips/ECG (Sylvania) version, and called the '6BG6GA', but with the anode taken to a top cap. Now, given that this method so often results in a superior-performing tube - eg. the EL12 Spezial; EL38/39 etc. - I'm hoping that this could also be a possible winner (if they still have any!)...so fingers and toes crossed this time!

And while on the top anode cap subject, it is what could possibly once again explain the performance of the EL39 over the exalted but much more expensive EL37? ...(such things are what make tubes so much more interesting creatures than solid state components...for me anyway!!) ...CHEERS!...CJ

 

[DecentLevi]

So guys, before ditching a defective EL39 that didn't light up I thought I'd break the glass off for your inspection in the name of science.

Said EL39 before / after: (photos enlarge for detail)



For reference, here was the internals of an EL3N thanks to a previous Elise member:

 

[hypnos1]

So guys, before ditching a defective EL39 that didn't light up I thought I'd break the glass off for your inspection in the name of science.

Said EL39 before / after: (photos enlarge for detail)



For reference, here was the internals of an EL3N thanks to a previous Elise member:

Hey DL, that's just too cruel for such a precious tube lol!

Not lighting up shows it was the heater at fault, like one of mine. I really do hope you tried the pins (#2 and #7) re-heating of solder trick, and if unsuccessful, my past suggestion to cut off a short piece of the pin(s) to gain access to the wire(s), wedge with new wire for security and then resolder...worked for me . But it looks like you didn't do the latter...hope you haven't committed 'hara kiri' lol!! ...

My commiserations go out to you...CJ

 

[DecentLevi]

Somehow I overlooked applying your method to my tube. But it also didn't help I don't have a soldering iron. Maybe I should order one later. And the pin cutting / wire merging step seems a bit hard to follow unless possibly seeing a video demonstration. Maybe you can do one for us. And for my EL39's, I already have 3 in good shape, and one on the way (though I haven't gotten shipping confirmation yet after one week).

 

[hypnos1]

Somehow I overlooked applying your method to my tube. But it also didn't help I don't have a soldering iron. Maybe I should order one later. And the pin cutting / wire merging step seems a bit hard to follow unless possibly seeing a video demonstration. Maybe you can do one for us. And for my EL39's, I already have 3 in good shape, and one on the way (though I haven't gotten shipping confirmation yet after one week).

Double tragedy then you didn't try the pin re-heating/resoldering trick DL!! For some reason, this pin wire contact/solder problem seems to happen more often with these heater wires than with others...presumably because the greater heat on them will find any weakness in the soldering much sooner. But at least when this is the culprit (ie. no lighting up), there's only 2 wires that are obviously the villains, as opposed to possibly all needing the treatment if the tube is very noisy, despite the pins being cleaned and the tube seated properly in its socket.

If just heating the pin for 20 to 30 seconds (making sure the solder has indeed melted!) doesn't work and gaining access to the pin's wire is needed, it's a simple job to cut off a short piece of the pin, either using a small hacksaw or dremel-type tool (the latter especially really needing the tube to be held in a hobbyist's vice/vise). But as I mentioned previously, hold tight by the base, not the glass! Then, with the tube held in the vice (vise) - again by its base only - and at a slight angle from vertical, resolder generously. For anyone not used to such procedures, probably best not to try wedging the now loose(?) wire with another short piece of wire and just simply resolder...if not very careful, the act of pushing in said piece might possibly push the pin's wire further down and so lose all contact lol!! (Has happened to me, and it's a real pig trying to retrieve it I assure you!!).

This isn't a complicated procedure and so doesn't need a video of it IMHO. But if I can find a defunct tube, I'll take a few photos for illustration. But if one isn't happy with a soldering iron, I would recommend trying to find a friend/acquaintance who is and plead with them lol!

Good luck with your other incoming tube, and hope it's trouble-free...CJ