[hypnos1]

Number one thing is that there is no majic inteligence involved, other than the designers. It is just a slow settleing in of the various components. As the components of the tube burn in, tolerances change creating a different mathmatical condition. As for can it go past ideal performance, that is called aging, happens to everything in life. Noting attains the perfect balance between ying and yang and stops, one force or the other continues until destruction. Same with life, look around, good people, bad people, dumb people, smart people, they change through out their life span. Until they finally burn out aka die!

Hi cf...all I can say is I hope these EL38s don't die for a very long while yet lol!!

But this subject of 'burn-in' certainly can seem rather strange and illogical sometimes. Funny how some tubes don't appear to need very long, while others - like the EL tubes especially - just keep on improving even after many, many hours! And what's even more strange/confusing is how a tube can make sudden leaps...sometimes even just between sessions. I'm sure this would make an extremely interesting study for some very patient (and rich!) soul...can't say I myself have come across such an in-depth, scientific study. It would appear this is something that can only be fully appreciated by one's own personal experience...as with so much in the world of hi-fidelity music reproduction.... But in the final analysis, I reckon this is a phenomenon that we just have to accept - and be grateful for lol! - and one not really worth trying to fathom out!! .

Now then, mon ami, one thing I am finding out for sure is that the main reason for later tube development was for increased reliability and rugged use...not necessarily sound quality lol!

Why? Because after years of taking apart those bits you can take apart - in the process of adapting tubes - most successors do seem to be geared to such 'improvements'...ie. while what's happening inside the tube may well depend on long-lost secrets, certain elements of overall construction definitely improved over time.

The latest example of this - for me - is the old, larger EL38, compared to the later CV450-type design...chalk and cheese, construction-wise (the oldie proving much more temperamental while I try to adapt it!!). And such things as glass envelope, better internal supports, pins, soldering etc. are much superior on the later tubes... which will probably mean a longer, more reliable life. However, the oldie does have the edge sound-wise, which does seem to be the case so often with our glass wonders.

And so my advice to those who are interested in this wonderful tube is to seek out the later design first - as shown in the first EL38/CV450 posts here - and then, perhaps, give the old ones a look...if you can find them lol! But one thing's for sure...they're all performers that will astound you in our amps...no question!! ...CJ

 

[Johnnysound]

Can you imagine? Some kind of mistake about my delivery address in the U.S. (probably mine, area code) and USPS is wandering around with my FOUR NOS EL38s for weeks. From here to there, no delivery. They are already in Florida...and this is the one parcel that by no means can be lost.

The address is quite easy to get right, I mean, correct street, house numbers, even phone number, wrong area code, piece of cake for any postman...but no human being is involved here. Had to fill a claim with the precise area codes...

About my plan to test the four EL38s as power tubes in my power amp, before Euforia, yes, I am taking advantage from H1s splendid discovery of the EL38s for Euforia, (as triodes) but this is our hobby, isn’t it ? Regarding those power pentodes, no further comment...better keep them available

 

[hypnos1]

Can you imagine? Some kind of mistake about my delivery address in the U.S. (probably mine, area code) and USPS is wandering around with my FOUR NOS EL38s for weeks. From here to there, no delivery. They are already in Florida...and this is the one parcel that by no means can be lost.

The address is quite easy to get right, I mean, correct street, house numbers, even phone number, wrong area code, piece of cake for any postman...but no human being is involved here. Had to fill a claim with the precise area codes...

About my plan to test the four EL38s as power tubes in my power amp, before Euforia, yes, I am taking advantage from H1s splendid discovery of the EL38s for Euforia, (as triodes) but this is our hobby, isn’t it ? Regarding those power pentodes, no further comment...better keep them available

Hey J, that sounds like a horror story gone wrong lol!! . I can only hope with all my heart they soon find their way to you...it doesn't bear thinking about that you might not get them! So we must stay positive and optimistic....

And further to my trial(s!!!) of the older, large 'balloon' EL38, I must admit it is driving me a bit loopy! As I touched on before, this is definitely not so sturdy as the later version (that you're waiting for!). My first 'unused' tube certainly hasn't liked surgery - one minute it's fine, the next a final bit of pin soldering and...horrendous distortion! The same result after inspection and resoldering... looks like an internal problem and therefore inoperable, alas . The second tube - one of the 'grotty' ones I revamped - shows very mild microphonics. And although can't be heard while music is playing, that's not a very good sign...

And so my best hopes lie with the last remaining tube, which at the moment is performing brilliantly in my test adapter. So much so in fact that while turning up the volume a bit on Loreena McKennitt's 'Caravanserai' from An Ancient Muse, I heard something that almost had me heaving an 'Oh no, not again' sigh...but on relisten was actually a previously not noticed sound on the track lol!!...phew!!

Thus...if one is fortunate enough to find a trouble-free old tube (preferably with black plates, it would appear), then it would indeed be a worthwhile addition...especially as even just one as company in the power slot brings a nice little extra to the table ...

Good luck once again with your own parcel of (more reliable!) magic, J...CHEERS!...CJ

 

[connieflyer]

Johnny sound so sorry to hear about your difficulties with the mail service. I have a similar problem up here there is a house three blocks from mine it has the same house number but it's on a cross street with a different name and a different zip code and the postal Department many times will deliver my mail to this person and that person to mine because they are just going by the house number itself that is human error that's not machine made. That's the stupidity of some of the mail carriers that we have here. Fortunately after this started happening I got together with that homeowner exchange phone numbers so if we get a package or mail we just call the other up to come and get what belongs to them instead of throwing out their mail tried putting it in the mailbox to be read delivered and then usually come right back here the next day stupidity. Hopefully you will get your tube soon and joined the ranks of the El 38 group that is just on cloud nine with their purchases

 

[hypnos1]

OK guys, just a quick update on the 'oldie', large 'balloon' EL38.

The third tube I mentioned is performing so brilliantly even in my makeshift adapter that I shan't tempt fate once more, and therefore not undergo major surgery on it lol! Sounding this good already - and with no microphonics - I shall instead upgrade the adapter with some solid UP-OCC silver wire to accompany the copper already used.

Can't take any chances with this tube, because although I said previously it (even just one) might be 'a good addition' in combination with the later version, I shall now amend that to...you must try and get one...it's that good!...(one with black plates, at least...don't know about the greys...). GOOD LUCK! folks...CJ

 

[connieflyer]

I will keep an eye out for one, but so far yours are the only ones I have seen. Glad to hear it is working out for you.

 

[hypnos1]

I will keep an eye out for one, but so far yours are the only ones I have seen. Glad to hear it is working out for you.

Thanks cf...upgrading the adapter was more of a workup than I thought, but I was at least able to gain direct access to the tube's top anode wire, courtesy of a loose top cap. So I thought, why not lol?!...especially as it's only minor surgery... by comparison!

And these 'oldies' may well be 'goldies', but boy, are they delicate creatures...although this last tube isn't microphonic, on start up it makes the sort of crackling noise that usually has one racing for the off switch. Luckily, however, it only lasts a few seconds then the usual total silence (with no music playing, that is!! ) and nothing untoward afterwards. Haven't had that one before, so it'll be interesting to see if it disappears in the next few days...
But despite all, the trials and tribulations have been well worth it...I think!!

By contrast, none of the 8 later tubes I've performed major surgery on has so much as made a murmur...so as the old saying goes : "You pays your money and takes your choice" lol! .
Whatever - and whichever - these EL38s continue to way outperform any and all previous tubes...conventional or otherwise...tremendous...

 

[aqsw]

Just wondering if anybody has an extra nos Mullard el38 they would like to sell. I bought three from a seller here in Canada. That's all he had. I'm trying to find another one close, but they are as hard to find as unicorns.

If I am using a pair only, they would be best as powers I presume?

 

[hypnos1]

Just wondering if anybody has an extra nos Mullard el38 they would like to sell. I bought three from a seller here in Canada. That's all he had. I'm trying to find another one close, but they are as hard to find as unicorns.

If I am using a pair only, they would be best as powers I presume?

Hi aqsw...might well be able to help...PM me?

And yes indeed...with just 2, best as powers (especially with EL32 drivers lol!). But 4x 38s are the real deal!! ...CHEERS!...CJ

 

[Johnnysound]

Still waiting for the EL38s...called USPS and they promised to help...I have an account with them and automatic messages that keep me informed about the whereabouts of the package, amazing, it goes from here to there but never arrives. I only beg for an old fashioned human postman that will get the proper address in five seconds. It looks like the label has some line transposed, along with a wrong zip code, so the machines can’t read it properly.

In the meantime, (as a therapy to combat the stress) I will retake my old hobby of cable making, this time with my version of an “all out assault” on pure silver, state of the art wires (inspired by H1s faith on this type of cables). Three pairs of cables: one balanced to SE, two SE, 1.25 meter each, with Mundorf pure silver/gold alloy conductors, (around 30 AWG) Teflon tubing, and gorgeous Furutech silver plated plugs, that I selected because they are “solder free” and wide enough for the design. I settled for a three conductor cable: one positive and two return in a loose helical geometry, unshielded. The conductors go freely into the Teflon in an “air dielectric” path. Double silver returns may look kind of overkill, but I feel that this design will offer better shielding, noise rejection and overall definition...we’ll see !! Anyway, this is not a dirty solder job, but a white glove affair. Not easy, even taking the shiny conductors from their perfect, oxygen free package makes me nervous. Inserting that delicate silver wires into the Teflon tubes is critical...you know, teflon tubing is nasty, it bends the way it wants, so your wires must bend with it in perfect harmony. Avoid kinks at all costs... will ruin your cable. I am laughing at myself for going to this extremes in the quest for good sound...having already excellent cables, but who knows ?

 

[connieflyer]

Well I hope you keep a record of the travels with those tubes oh, it sounds like your tubes could have their own diary maybe even a screenplay someday! Its funny in a way how do you post office has to rely on machine readers so much. Way Way Back in 1962 I was overseas and wrote a letter to a young lady that I had met when I was home on leave I knew where she lived and What street but I did not have her house number. So I wrote out what I had and then drew a little map with little boxes for their houses and marked off the cross streets how many blocks down from the major intersection on the envelope and some kind-hearted postal employee took the time to figure out where it went she actually got it! Nowadays it seems like the postal employees won't bother redelivering mail if it's sorted wrong. I wish you all the luck getting those tubes by time you get them they will really be vintage tubes! Good job I need new cables, they sound like they're going to be really great and I hope they work better than what you anticipate. Take care of Johnny sound

 

[hypnos1]

[QUOTE="Johnnysound, post: 14659669, member: 364938"]Still waiting for the EL38s...called USPS and they promised to help...I have an account with them and automatic messages that keep me informed about the whereabouts of the package, amazing, it goes from here to there but never arrives. I only beg for an old fashioned human postman that will get the proper address in five seconds. It looks like the label has some line transposed, along with a wrong zip code, so the machines can’t read it properly.

In the meantime, (as a therapy to combat the stress) I will retake my old hobby of cable making, this time with my version of an “all out assault” on pure silver, state of the art wires (inspired by H1s faith on this type of cables). Three pairs of cables: one balanced to SE, two SE, 1.25 meter each, with Mundorf pure silver/gold alloy conductors, (around 30 AWG) Teflon tubing, and gorgeous Furutech silver plated plugs, that I selected because they are “solder free” and wide enough for the design. I settled for a three conductor cable: one positive and two return in a loose helical geometry, unshielded. The conductors go freely into the Teflon in an “air dielectric” path. Double silver returns may look kind of overkill, but I feel that this design will offer better shielding, noise rejection and overall definition...we’ll see !! Anyway, this is not a dirty solder job, but a white glove affair. Not easy, even taking the shiny conductors from their perfect, oxygen free package makes me nervous. Inserting that delicate silver wires into the Teflon tubes is critical...you know, teflon tubing is nasty, it bends the way it wants, so your wires must bend with it in perfect harmony. Avoid kinks at all costs... will ruin your cable. I am laughing at myself for going to this extremes in the quest for good sound...having already excellent cables, but who knows ?[/QUOTE]

Hi J. Methinks by now I'd be tearing out what's left of my hair lol! ...hope yours is still intact!! . And hope they do in fact reach you safe and sound very soon...

But making cables will indeed be a good distraction...so long as you manage not to bend that wire too much!! I notice you're using that nice Mundorf wire...but it doesn't seem to be single crystal OCC wire lol?!!...(which I have to admit I found outperformed 99.99% pure silver, albeit a good bit more expensive! ). I do hope your efforts are really worthwhile...I'm sure they will be lol...

So fingers crossed for you...on all counts...CHEERS!...CJ

 

[aqsw]

Just wondering about the superglue method on the EL38s.

Just stick superglue in the adapter cap and stick on tube?

I guess I should test the tubes first before I go the permanent method.

 

[JazzVinyl]

Well I hope you keep a record of the travels with those tubes oh, it sounds like your tubes could have their own diary maybe even a screenplay someday! Its funny in a way how do you post office has to rely on machine readers so much. Way Way Back in 1962 I was overseas and wrote a letter to a young lady that I had met when I was home on leave I knew where she lived and What street but I did not have her house number. So I wrote out what I had and then drew a little map with little boxes for their houses and marked off the cross streets how many blocks down from the major intersection on the envelope and some kind-hearted postal employee took the time to figure out where it went she actually got it! Nowadays it seems like the postal employees won't bother redelivering mail if it's sorted wrong. I wish you all the luck getting those tubes by time you get them they will really be vintage tubes! Good job I need new cables, they sound like they're going to be really great and I hope they work better than what you anticipate. Take care of Johnny sound

That's awesome, CF!! I ordered something from China...it got all the way to my post office, a mere couple of miles away, they marked it "incomplete address, deliverable" and sent it all the way back to flippin' China!! Why don't we have an email address associated with all snail mail items, to circumvent this very problem?

 

[hypnos1]

Just wondering about the superglue method on the EL38s.

Just stick superglue in the adapter cap and stick on tube?

I guess I should test the tubes first before I go the permanent method.

Hi aqsw....just a quick clarification before I hit the hay lol.

Past reference to superglueing the top cap was only to secure the tube's metal cap to the glass, as insurance against said cap coming loose, or to in fact re-adhere it if already loose. So just a little glue run around the base of this cap should do the trick. The same goes for where the tube's base meets the glass of the tube.

You do not want to permanently stick the adapter cap to the tube's metal cap lol!! . If the adapter cap connection should ever work a bit loose, its internal metal connector can easily be prised back to make a tighter fit and therefore improve the connection.