[RonaldS86]

At those high end realms it's probably best to try and find a dealer that loans them for a fee for an at home audition.

If you subconciously lean to the Bartok, this would be my choice, if you have to buy blindly. Simply because it has the highest probability of you being content afterwards.

Objectively all of the devices in question are great, so it would come down to personal preference anyways

My dealer says there'll be a Wavedream coming to his shop for a demo so I guess I'll try that one first maybe? As for Bartok Apéx I have no way to try it

 

[alekc]

Sorry but I'm going to bother you guys again. I have a plan to get a DAC for my Envy but don't know which one to pick between Rockna Wavedream or Bartok Apéx. I like a full bodied sound and a musical one than analytical. I have tried Envy Performance with Rockna Wavelight using Elrog 300b Mo and I have to say I like it very much, but Bartok Apéx is kinda like my dream DAC for a long time so my preference leans toward it but I know that Bartok is more reference sounding when compared with Rockna R2R sound. I hope someone here can help me choosing the best pairing. Thanks

@RonaldS86 what @ThanatosVI said. I can add only a little bit to it.

Honestly speaking after getting WaveLight I never saw a reason to upgrade to WaveDream. As for dacs that are definitively worth checking out (with Envy) here is my list:

- Chord Hugo TT2 (+/- M-Scaler)
- Chord Dave (+/- M-Scaler)
- Mola Mola Tambaqui
- Cen Grand DSDAC (multiple versions)
- T+A DAC 200

However I haven't heard T+A nor Cen Grand via Envy. Cen Grand is softer than WL IMHO. The thing with M-Scaler add-on is that first of all you many not hear/like to difference, secondly a new version seems to be finally around the corner, so investment wise this may not be the best time to buy one unless you will get a very good deal. As for me, adding a headphone amp to TT2 gave me a lot more that adding M-Scaler to the chain.

 

[Torino]

Hello everyone, I've only read along so far and was happy about the amount of helpful information in this forum. Now I got my Envy on Saturday and unfortunately I can also hear a humming noise. I hear it clearly through the headphones on gain 2 and 3 when no music is playing. I can't hear it with music. I can hear it from outside up to a distance of 50cm. I've already changed the inputs, removed all cables etc... Everything without change. How do you see it ? Do I have to send it in? I actually don't feel like it at all! Thanks, Michael

 

[turbofeet]

Sorry but I'm going to bother you guys again. I have a plan to get a DAC for my Envy but don't know which one to pick between Rockna Wavedream or Bartok Apéx. I like a full bodied sound and a musical one than analytical. I have tried Envy Performance with Rockna Wavelight using Elrog 300b Mo and I have to say I like it very much, but Bartok Apéx is kinda like my dream DAC for a long time so my preference leans toward it but I know that Bartok is more reference sounding when compared with Rockna R2R sound. I hope someone here can help me choosing the best pairing. Thanks

Although I have a Bartók I'm afraid I can't help you much here as mine is the 2.0 version and not Apex.

I did however compare the Bartók with a Mola Mola Tambaqui and I would describe the Tambaqui as rather beautiful sounding but quite airy.

I preferred the Bartók in the end as I felt the sound was more full bodied and meaty which seems it might suit your taste more as well. It doesn't seem overly analytical to me and not overly smooth either which one reviewer thought.

At this level they're all pretty awesome tbh.

Although I loved it by itself a clock makes quite a difference to the Bartók and with the Grimm it's rather spectacular ("I've completed Audio"). I'd imagine it's even more impressive with the Apex version.

The Wavelight is also well regarded DAC so please try and listen first if you can. Some think it's a bit bright but you really need to listen for yourself.

There are a lot of factors in play with different tubes, headphones etc. to find your perfect Synergy.

 

[JTbbb]

Hello everyone, I've only read along so far and was happy about the amount of helpful information in this forum. Now I got my Envy on Saturday and unfortunately I can also hear a humming noise. I hear it clearly through the headphones on gain 2 and 3 when no music is playing. I can't hear it with music. I can hear it from outside up to a distance of 50cm. I've already changed the inputs, removed all cables etc... Everything without change. How do you see it ? Do I have to send it in? I actually don't feel like it at all! Thanks, Michael

What about gain 1? Depending on the sensitivity of your headphones I believe what you’re hearing in the headphones may be normal. There are many factors at play with this amplifier. Gain settings, impedance/sensitivity of headphones, and of course tubes. Hopefully you don’t have a problem.

 

[DeeT79]

Hello everyone, I've only read along so far and was happy about the amount of helpful information in this forum. Now I got my Envy on Saturday and unfortunately I can also hear a humming noise. I hear it clearly through the headphones on gain 2 and 3 when no music is playing. I can't hear it with music. I can hear it from outside up to a distance of 50cm. I've already changed the inputs, removed all cables etc... Everything without change. How do you see it ? Do I have to send it in? I actually don't feel like it at all! Thanks, Michael

IMO, if it bothers you due to the cost of the amp as it should, although a hassle, I'd call Upscale Audio and talk to them about what you're hearing and get their recommendation. They dealt with some of these issues with Envys in the past. I'd send it in if that's what they recommend.

There are other users that have sent their Envy in for repair and gotten one back that is hum free. I have a low level hum that I can hear if my ear is very close to the transformer. I can't hear it at all at any gain level using XLR. I can hear it very slightly using a 1/4 headphone cable on Med and Hi, with sensitive headphones. I use XLR primarily so I didn't bother with the hassle of sending it in although I have thought about it.

 

[Torino]

Thanks for your feedback.
@JTbbb: I hear almost nothing at gain 1, even if I set the volume to max. I also hope I don't have a problem.

 

[RonaldS86]

@RonaldS86 what @ThanatosVI said. I can add only a little bit to it.

Honestly speaking after getting WaveLight I never saw a reason to upgrade to WaveDream. As for dacs that are definitively worth checking out (with Envy) here is my list:

- Chord Hugo TT2 (+/- M-Scaler)
- Chord Dave (+/- M-Scaler)
- Mola Mola Tambaqui
- Cen Grand DSDAC (multiple versions)
- T+A DAC 200

However I haven't heard T+A nor Cen Grand via Envy. Cen Grand is softer than WL IMHO. The thing with M-Scaler add-on is that first of all you many not hear/like to difference, secondly a new version seems to be finally around the corner, so investment wise this may not be the best time to buy one unless you will get a very good deal. As for me, adding a headphone amp to TT2 gave me a lot more that adding M-Scaler to the chain.

May I know why is that? Are there not too much difference between WL and WD? Maybe just a tad bit smoother? My friend also suggest me to pick Chord TT2 but that will be my last option because I don't really like the orb control on Chord products. Cen Grand DSDAC is quite interesting and I have the chance to try it because my dealer has a demo, but last time I try only Rockna WL because he's planning to sell his demo unit for US$3560.

Although I have a Bartók I'm afraid I can't help you much here as mine is the 2.0 version and not Apex.

I did however compare the Bartók with a Mola Mola Tambaqui and I would describe the Tambaqui as rather beautiful sounding but quite airy.

I preferred the Bartók in the end as I felt the sound was more full bodied and meaty which seems it might suit your taste more as well. It doesn't seem overly analytical to me and not overly smooth either which one reviewer thought.

At this level they're all pretty awesome tbh.

Although I loved it by itself a clock makes quite a difference to the Bartók and with the Grimm it's rather spectacular ("I've completed Audio"). I'd imagine it's even more impressive with the Apex version.

The Wavelight is also well regarded DAC so please try and listen first if you can. Some think it's a bit bright but you really need to listen for yourself.

There are a lot of factors in play with different tubes, headphones etc. to find your perfect Synergy.

May I know what tube are you using on Envy with when you pair it with Bartok? I already try it with WaveLight several days ago but using Elrog's 300b Mo and I have to say it sound's brighter when compared to the stock Full Music tube but a smooth bright so what I get is a great and extended high notes but not piercing my ears
I thought that Bartok are supposed to be brighter than the R2R WaveLight? Or am I wrong? Thanks

 

[tunes]

IMO, if it bothers you due to the cost of the amp as it should, although a hassle, I'd call Upscale Audio and talk to them about what you're hearing and get their recommendation. They dealt with some of these issues with Envys in the past. I'd send it in if that's what they recommend.

There are other users that have sent their Envy in for repair and gotten one back that is hum free. I have a low level hum that I can hear if my ear is very close to the transformer. I can't hear it at all at any gain level using XLR. I can hear it very slightly using a 1/4 headphone cable on Med and Hi, with sensitive headphones. I use XLR primarily so I didn't bother with the hassle of sending it in although I have thought about it.

I am thinking about getting the Puritan 156 anyway to clean up the mains but are the reviews with the standard mains cable or the Ultimate cable they sell. It’s a jump up in price and may not make a significant difference. Anyone have an opinion. I don’t want to hear any hum from the transformer when I spend that much on the Envy.

 

[hafzz123]

May I know why is that? Are there not too much difference between WL and WD? Maybe just a tad bit smoother? My friend also suggest me to pick Chord TT2 but that will be my last option because I don't really like the orb control on Chord products. Cen Grand DSDAC is quite interesting and I have the chance to try it because my dealer has a demo, but last time I try only Rockna WL because he's planning to sell his demo unit for US$3560.

Have you tried the Deluxe version of DSDAC? If you're into musical and smooth sound the DSDAC Deluxe may be the one that you're looking for

 

[RonaldS86]

Have you tried the Deluxe version of DSDAC? If you're into musical and smooth sound the DSDAC Deluxe may be the one that you're looking for

No, not yet but the shop owner says he's using it on his home so maybe I can ask him to bring it to the shop so I can try it

 

[Newsee]

Sorry but I'm going to bother you guys again. I have a plan to get a DAC for my Envy but don't know which one to pick between Rockna Wavedream or Bartok Apéx. I like a full bodied sound and a musical one than analytical. I have tried Envy Performance with Rockna Wavelight using Elrog 300b Mo and I have to say I like it very much, but Bartok Apéx is kinda like my dream DAC for a long time so my preference leans toward it but I know that Bartok is more reference sounding when compared with Rockna R2R sound. I hope someone here can help me choosing the best pairing. Thanks

If your dream is Bartok, take that, otherwise you will keep on dreaming.

When I have heard it with the Envy it was super smooth. For some it might be too smooth. I liked it.

Nowadays I am enyoing Merason DAC-1 with the Envy.

 

[RonaldS86]

If your dream is Bartok, take that, otherwise you will keep on dreaming.

When I have heard it with the Envy it was super smooth. For some it might be too smooth. I liked it.

Nowadays I am enyoing Merason DAC-1 with the Envy.

A wise word from a wise man. Thank you for your encouragement
I guess I'll go for Bartok then. My main concern with Bartok is I'll be expecting Stax X9000+T8000 combo too on January. My dealer said that with Bartok it will be too analytical, but I think I'll use Envy as a preamp to tweak the sound so it will have a tubey sound

 

[Kirklandia]

I am thinking about getting the Puritan 156 anyway to clean up the mains but are the reviews with the standard mains cable or the Ultimate cable they sell. It’s a jump up in price and may not make a significant difference. Anyone have an opinion. I don’t want to hear any hum from the transformer when I spend that much on the Envy.

I bought a Puritan 156 with the Ultimate cable and it made no difference with the external hum from my very early production Envy. I thought for sure it would resolve the transformer hum. Music, however, sounded much more dynamic with the Puritan filters than from my precious Niagara 1200 conditioner. The Niagara, when moved to service the TV, greatly improved the picture quality. I would think you could audition the Puritan at home? Worth checking.

Anyway, I found I could not live with the external hum from my first Envy after about two months because I could hear it from 20' away, let alone sitting 3' away on my desktop. I swapped it with a replacement Envy and am happy. The replacement Envy developed some low level transformer hum after a few months but I consider this normal for the unit. This does not bother me at all (unlike my tinnitus 24/7) and does not intrude into the music playback.

This moment, I am listening through ZMF Calderas on mid gain and there is no hum through the Calderas. When I previously tried my Focal Utopias on mid gain, there was audible hum through the headphones so I switched the gain back to lo and have a silent background.

 

[turbofeet]

May I know what tube are you using on Envy with when you pair it with Bartok? I already try it with WaveLight several days ago but using Elrog's 300b Mo and I have to say it sound's brighter when compared to the stock Full Music tube but a smooth bright so what I get is a great and extended high notes but not piercing my ears
I thought that Bartok are supposed to be brighter than the R2R WaveLight? Or am I wrong? Thanks

I have used both Elrog ER and MO and now WE300B.

The Elrogs were superb. Everything improves quite significantly over stock. MOs could sound a little bright on occasion but not often enough to be a concern.

The WEs are really wonderful though. They have an addictive midrange and are quite tubey but all of the detail is still there. It's a different presentation but one which maybe I prefer.

I really have no idea why Bartók is described as smooth as that implies it smooths over details. That is not my impression at all.

It's a very detailed, technically superb DAC which doesn't sugar coat the music. It's just not overly bright.

I must say the Grimm completed my setup for me. Combined with the Bartók, the WEs and Melz I cannot fault it. I can literally listen to anything and it's simply beautiful.

You could probably pair the Grimm with a £15 amazon DAC and it would probably be great. Its not for everyone though if you don't use or are not a fan of Roon.

I'll stop going on about the Grimm now though.

Please have a listen to as many DACs as you can before purchasing.

There are some amazing choices. Some like the Weiss DACs as well.