Feliks Audio Elise Tube Rolling Guide 6SN7/6AS7G/6080/5998
Oct 31, 2015 at 9:40 AM Post #331 of 384

Renderman

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Just occurred to me; how about Grade 325e? I head they're significantly warmer sounding than the preceding model. The only pair of Grados I've owned were the original SR-80 with a Little Headroom some +20 years ago, and don't recall being blown away. Maybe the Grados are better these days? Still low-z.

To be brief, I never heard any Grado that I liked.
 
Oct 31, 2015 at 9:40 AM Post #332 of 384

hpamdr

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Just occurred to me; how about Grade 325e? I head they're significantly warmer sounding than the preceding model. The only pair of Grados I've owned were the original SR-80 with a Little Headroom some +20 years ago, and don't recall being blown away. Maybe the Grados are better these days? Still low-z.

If you want really want to change go for a stax 407 or 507 ! (this will be a big change :wink: )
 
I gave a try to K812, HD800/HD700 and T1 I did choose the T1. Not because it is the most resolving, not the one with the best soundstage not the one with the biggest Wahoo effect.  Just because it is the one that for me make the music I listen enjoyable... I did try those on some audio shop and also to an audio exhibition  I took me 3 months to decide myself. (I was also tempted by a stax SR-507 but the amplifiers are too expensive if you want to have a good one !)
 
Oct 31, 2015 at 1:03 PM Post #333 of 384

Shaffer

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Just got done raiding the Russian miniature triode inventory:

2x6N3P-EV

2x6N3P, '60s production

2x6N3P-E, triple mica, '70s vintage

1x30C6S rectifier (ST bottle)

Grand total with shipping? $27

Also ordered a pair of 5687 adapters. Should have some tubes by the time they get here. Figure, sometime toward spring; Chinese mail is no rush. I hear the Raytheons are good. The JAN GEs are very reasonably priced. Does anyone have experience with these tubes and can make a recommendation?
 
Oct 31, 2015 at 1:11 PM Post #334 of 384

gibosi

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I'm very curious to hear when gibosi says about his HD700. They're still in the running.

 
Unfortunately, I have not had the opportunity to compare the HD700 to other similar cans on my own equipment. Over a year ago, I was able to compare the HD800 and HD700 on SS equipment. I preferred the HD700 as I found the bass of the HD800 to be lacking in warmth and quantity. However, at that time, the HD700 was still selling for around $1000 and given my budget, both were beyond my reach. It wasn't until the price of the 700 dropped to around $500-$600, that I was able to seriously consider it. So I think it is safe to say that if price was not a factor, I might have chosen a different can. But given my budget, it seemed to me that the 700 was the best I could afford.
 
I find 700 to have a mildly U-shaped response with a warm and punchy bass and a Grado-like treble, which is just a bit too peaky and edgy for my taste. Fortunately, with a simple mod to attenuate the highs, the treble is smoothed out, and the midrange is correspondingly enhanced, so I am a happy camper. Again, for their price, I think they are an excellent can, but they may well require some tweaking. And if price is not a consideration, there are likely better options.
 
Also, in my opinion, Feliks is stretching the truth a bit when they suggest that the Elise can drive 32 ohm cans. I have learned through others that Lukasz has verified that the Elise is a true OTL. Given that in an OTL the cans are connected directly to the plates of the 6AS7, with a plate resistance of about 300 ohms, 300 ohm cans are optimal. However, connecting 32 ohm cans results in a 10:1 impedance mismatch and delivering enough current with this mismatch to a 32 ohm can is problematic. One advantage of having two 6AS7s is that you can push considerably more current through them than is possible in designs utilizing only one 6AS7, such as the DV and Crack. But even so, there is a limit on how much current you can push through a 6AS7. (In the Glenn, it is possible to use a pair of 6336, which is equivalent to a quad of 6AS7, two per channel, which can drive low-Z cans quite nicely.)  So while low-Z cans can still sound very good, they will not sound GREAT connected to a pair of 6AS7. Thus I would not encourage anyone to purchase a 6AS7 OTL if they want their low-Z cans to sound their very best.
 
Oct 31, 2015 at 1:24 PM Post #335 of 384

Shaffer

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Thank you very much for sharing your HD700 impressions. Very helpful. Would you say that transparency and resolution are some of its strong suits?

I've actually had very good luck driving low-z cans with the Elise, namely the AD900x and K550. The ATs subjectively gained an extra octave and a half of bass response, and the K550, while not sounding as unpeaky (if you will) as they did with the LDIII, are listenable with the Elise, which I could never say about any of my ss amplifiers including the V200. In case you can't tell, I don't love those headphones. Have never tried IEMs. I bet you'd be really impressed with the Elise, just as we would be with a Glenn. Especially the one based on the 6BL7. Man, I want that amp!
 
Oct 31, 2015 at 1:32 PM Post #336 of 384

gibosi

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Just got done raiding the Russian miniature triode inventory:

2x6N3P-EV

Also ordered a pair of 5687 adapters. Should have some tubes by the time they get here. Figure, sometime toward spring; Chinese mail is no rush. I hear the Raytheons are good. The JAN GEs are very reasonably priced. Does anyone have experience with these tubes and can make a recommendation?

 
As you no doubt know, the 6N3P is equivalent to the 2C51/5670. You might also find the 6N1P and 6N5P interesting. These are pin compatible with the 6CG7.
 
My favorite 5687 is the Sylania. The E182CC/7119 and 7044 also have the same pinout. While none of the 7044 knocked my socks off, both the American-made (NY Philips) and Holland-made (Heerlen Philips) E182CC are very nice. These 1958 Heerlen, pinched-waist 7119 are especially nice.
 

 
Oct 31, 2015 at 1:49 PM Post #337 of 384

gibosi

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Thank you very much for sharing your HD700 impressions. Very helpful. Would you say that transparency and resolution are some of its strong suits?

 
I confess that I am not a detail freak, so doubt that my opinion is terribly reliable... That said, in my opinion, some of the strengths of the 700's are its transparency, realistic soundstage reproduction, and superb imagery and three dimensionality. From what I have read, the 800 has superior transparency and resolution, but again, IMHO, the 700 is no slouch
 
Oct 31, 2015 at 1:50 PM Post #338 of 384

hpamdr

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Just got done raiding the Russian miniature triode inventory:

2x6N3P-EV

2x6N3P, '60s production

2x6N3P-E, triple mica, '70s vintage

1x30C6S rectifier (ST bottle)

Grand total with shipping? $27

Also ordered a pair of 5687 adapters. Should have some tubes by the time they get here. Figure, sometime toward spring; Chinese mail is no rush. I hear the Raytheons are good. The JAN GEs are very reasonably priced. Does anyone have experience with these tubes and can make a recommendation?


I like russian tube, because you can make them sound great for the money ! I personally like a lot the 6N6P, i will give a try when my Elise will be burned Full russian setup with 6H13C or 6H5C as power tube. from now they gives good result on my poor single tube CTH.
If you can find some with square getter i encourage you to give a try. (the one on the right is a Foton from 65, the middle is a 79 Nevz, the Left on is a 91 nevz with square getter)

 
Oct 31, 2015 at 3:59 PM Post #339 of 384

Shaffer

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I appreciate the advice, hpamdr. Will keep an eye out for square getters.

I've spent the day playing with the newly arrived 6SN7 adapters for the Woo. I tried my beloved CBS GTs, CBS GTB short bottles, and now I'm playing Raytheon GTA short bottles. The sound - meh. Frankly, so far, the better stock-based tubes are superior in every regard. The 6SN7s sound soft and slightly diffuse, have weak bass, lack of speed and snap, and generally sound kinda boring. There's little power to the sound; music comes across as being a bit anemic. These 6SN7 bloom in the Elise and the DV. In the WA6 there's virtually no texture or color. Just blah. Compare that to the better stock-fit tubes and it's a night and day difference. I'll try other 6SN7s. At this point, I do not recommend this. At all. A waste of money, time, and favorable expectations.

Edit: Rolling the Philco/Sylvanias I got last week made things a bit better; they're the darkest sounding 6SN7s I have. I'm using a CRC 5R4GY. Seems to be a better match than the Mullard GZ34. A first. Still, the sound is far from being very good,
 
Oct 31, 2015 at 3:59 PM Post #340 of 384

hpamdr

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I can get inside a tubes lot 2 used GEC AS7G date VE (May 1964) the base are brown but not curved. Should those one are as good as the one with curved base.

 
 
 
I can get 5 to 6 extra of NIB 6N7GT Visseaux in the middle of next month if some are interested send me a PM. Some are marked "Service de Guerre" some not !

 
Oct 31, 2015 at 9:32 PM Post #342 of 384

Shaffer

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[RANT] As I'm listening to various 6SN7s in the WA6 - not that I have so many differently branded pairs - I'm having a difficult time understanding how so many seemingly intelligent people recommend this tube unequivocally for this particular amplifier - over, and over, and over, not unlike the highly flawed Brimar rectifier - when the tube/amp combo is incapable of simply producing an extended frequency response. No weight to the sound, no chest on a male singer, slow as all fruck, a diffuse, unfocused presentation - a hazy, plodding, veiled sound. Mind you, I'm using my best 6SN7s and a ridiculous TV vertical oscillator tube is kicking their ass in this circuit, putting it very mildly.

When I'm in my home territory, I don't need to ask questions. I know what various gear sounds like and what I should buy. Here, I'm not as comfortable with my scope of expertise and for a good reason. As much as I hate it, I follow the advice of those who seem experienced and it bites me in the ass every time, present company excluded. That's it; I'm tired of the disappointments. My BFH came in very handy a few minutes ago, as the adapters for this joke of an exercise and the adapters for the aurally offensive 6N7s are in pieces. I feel much better.

There's a lot more I'm tempted to say.... for example, having spent weeks auditioning small signal tubes and identifying the one, pictures get posted of every tube of its type except for the right bottle. There was even a link, not to mention a description emphasizing the color of the label and its age! Didn't matter. That's just one example. What is the problem? I can't be the only one who thinks this. [/RANT]
 
Oct 31, 2015 at 10:32 PM Post #343 of 384

Shaffer

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Hey Mordy, as you're in NYS, I would like to invite you over for an audio demo. Non-headphone. I promise you an experience you will not soon forget. Bring your favorite records/CDs/files. If you'd like that, please shoot me a PM.

FWIW, I owned the same speakers as yours at one time. Bought them from Newegg, like you, for the kids' TV. We've given them away since then. I mention this, because I know what you'd be in store for. Come over.
 
Nov 1, 2015 at 9:53 AM Post #344 of 384

Renderman

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[RANT] As I'm listening to various 6SN7s in the WA6 - not that I have so many differently branded pairs - I'm having a difficult time understanding how so many seemingly intelligent people recommend this tube unequivocally for this particular amplifier - over, and over, and over, not unlike the highly flawed Brimar rectifier - when the tube/amp combo is incapable of simply producing an extended frequency response. No weight to the sound, no chest on a male singer, slow as all fruck, a diffuse, unfocused presentation - a hazy, plodding, veiled sound. Mind you, I'm using my best 6SN7s and a ridiculous TV vertical oscillator tube is kicking their ass in this circuit, putting it very mildly.

When I'm in my home territory, I don't need to ask questions. I know what various gear sounds like and what I should buy. Here, I'm not as comfortable with my scope of expertise and for a good reason. As much as I hate it, I follow the advice of those who seem experienced and it bites me in the ass every time, present company excluded. That's it; I'm tired of the disappointments. My BFH came in very handy a few minutes ago, as the adapters for this joke of an exercise and the adapters for the aurally offensive 6N7s are in pieces. I feel much better.

There's a lot more I'm tempted to say.... for example, having spent weeks auditioning small signal tubes and identifying the one, pictures get posted of every tube of its type except for the right bottle. There was even a link, not to mention a description emphasizing the color of the label and its age! Didn't matter. That's just one example. What is the problem? I can't be the only one who thinks this. [/RANT]

I hear you! I've been looking up and down the internet for solid information on the performance of different tubes. There is surprisingly little reliable information out there! One of the reasons I wanted to start this thread.
 
Strange thing about TV oscillator tubes; my monoblocks use the Philips ECL82, it too was developed for TV oscillator duty. I must say it (and the monoblocks after modding) exceed all my expectations by far. Sure, 300B tubes might perform better but at this price (150 euros for both including tubes!) I'm not complaining. :)
 
Nov 1, 2015 at 10:20 AM Post #345 of 384

Shaffer

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I hear you! I've been looking up and down the internet for solid information on the performance of different tubes. There is surprisingly little reliable information out there! One of the reasons I wanted to start this thread.

Strange thing about TV oscillator tubes; my monoblocks use the Philips ECL82, it too was developed for TV oscillator duty. I must say it (and the monoblocks after modding) exceed all my expectations by far. Sure, 300B tubes might perform better but at this price (150 euros for both including tubes!) I'm not complaining. :)


Wouldn't be surprised if the chassis and the parts, alone, can cost more than 150 euros. They're beautifully proportioned amplifiers. Once my kids are gone, I hope to use one of their bedrooms as a second, smaller audio room - SET-based.

I have to admit to really enjoying the use of non-audio tubes in a good sounding component. There's something mildly sinister about it.

Couldn't sleep last night, so I did the only natural thing, and surfed ebay for tubes. Mostly to pass the time. I guess I never looked that closely, it's astounding just how many 5U4-type tubes are for sale in every price range imaginable. So, I buckled and picked up a trio of NOS 5U4GBs for $7.25 shipped. Couldn't just leave them there. One is a high-grade Raytheon, a RCA, and an early-60s GE labeled as a Zenith. That's less than $2.50 each! To my mailbox.

Also picked up a TS 5V4GA and a duo of 5V4G. The 5V4 tube is like a gift that keeps on giving. Specific synergies aside, it's one of the better rectifiers I've heard, not too far away from the GZ34 that I love and really need to get a backup for before the guitar players destroy the remaining stock, and there's usually a nice light show to go with the sound. It's not a very big tube, physically, so the Woo can fit on the same shelf as my other HP amps. Total win-win-win. At least that how I rationalize buying tubes that I really don't need.

All this said, I need to stop buying tubes. But, they're just so much fun. Help me! lol
 

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