Feliks Audio Elise Tube Rolling Guide 6SN7/6AS7G/6080/5998
Oct 30, 2015 at 7:45 AM Post #316 of 384

Shaffer

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Hi Mikelap,

Appreciate that you posted the pictures - found that I have 5 of these tubes under the 6BZ7 designation. Gonna try them tomorrow - thanks.


Mordy, you want a RCA white label from the '50s. Not the orange label, not an alternate brand, but that tube specifically. The seller I link'd has those specific tubes. IME, most of the RCAs for sale are orange labels - not what you want.

I'm going to forget about 6BL7 for now. Thank you for the helpful discussion.
 
Oct 30, 2015 at 2:39 PM Post #317 of 384

Shaffer

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Finally received the last of the inexpensive rectifiers - a 1958 BNIB GE 5R4GYA. With only a couple of hours on its heaters, the amp sounds terrific in conjunction with the NOS Philco/GEs. Lots of space and especially depth to the sound, no etching, and very decent extension. Fairly resolving, too. I felt really good about the end of my tube search for the Woo, but now I need a backup pair of old Philcos...

Last night, I rolled a pair of CRC black plate 6AS7G and '57-era RCA white label 6BQ7A, expecting more of vintage sound. Nope. The Elise had a modern, full-range, detailed presentation - perhaps lacking some low-level information, but making up for it in dynamics - yet with slightly softened transient leading edges.The only tubes that colored the amp to a high degree, IME, were a pair of Chinese 6SN7GTBs with metal bases - an instant Stereo70.

Edit: text
 
Oct 30, 2015 at 3:24 PM Post #318 of 384

Renderman

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Finally received the last of the inexpensive rectifiers - a 1958 BNIB GE 5R4GYA. With only a couple of hours on its heaters, the amp sounds terrific in conjunction with the NOS Philco/GEs. Lots of space and especially depth to the sound, no etching, and very decent extension. Fairly resolving, too. I felt really good about the end of my tube search for the Woo, but now I need a backup pair of old Philcos...

Last night, I rolled a pair of CRC black plate 6AS7G and '57-era RCA white label 6BQ7A, expecting more of vintage sound. Nope. The Elise had a modern, full-range, detailed presentation - perhaps lacking some low-level information, but making up for it in dynamics - yet with slightly softened transient leading edges.The only tubes that colored the amp to a high degree, IME, were a pair of Chinese 6SN7GTBs with metal bases - an instant Stereo70.

Edit: text

Hey Shaffer! Looks like you're still having fun with the amps! 
atsmile.gif

 
I wondered about the 6BQ7A, never tried them myself however. It is not easy to make the Elise sound bad! I've tried with a pair of Chinese 6N5 (My worst sounding power tubes!) and 6N8S drivers... and she will squeeze every bit of performance out of these tubes! The overall presentations gets a bit soft and mushy, lacking in dynamics and detail but still quite enjoyable!
 
Anyways... back to building!
 
Oct 31, 2015 at 12:15 AM Post #319 of 384

Shaffer

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The Elise is the cornerstone of my headphone system. Never fails to sound fantastic. A reference-grade component and I use it in that capacity, as well.

The DV is fairly constant in its sonics. Sure, a Chatham driven by a 7AF7 bring out a lot more information than, say, a Sylvania with a RCA 6SN7GTB, but it'll never be a marvel of resolution. Lots of fun, sure. Its dynamics with 600 Ohm Beyers are not equaled by any of my other amplifiers past and present. It's a sledgehammer, or a BFH in car-speak.

The WA6 is a challenge and a totally unpredictable one at that. For example, ATM I'm running a pair of RCA 6CY7 and a 1275 rectifier, an even lowered power version of a Type-80. On an intuitive level the sound should be somewhat anemic with weak bass, but it's anything but that. I think it's the lack of predictability, and the intellectual frustration that goes with it, that drives me want the thing sound decent. Almost there. The NOS Philco tubes are very good. Much better than I expected. I'm actually beginning to like the amp and hating myself for it. :wink:
 
Oct 31, 2015 at 12:53 AM Post #320 of 384

Shaffer

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On a more serious note, I'm seriously considering selling my HD600 and DT880/600. Just don't use them much, as I greatly prefer my modified K702 and at times the 7XX.

This would leave me with the two pairs of K7-series AKGs, the beloved Beyer DT990pro, a K550 that I only use when i need a sealed can and it works quite well in that application, and 900x that, if anything, isn't terribly hot on the ears in the summer, and I like their sound and the light weight. In essence, four headphones, not counting the K550 that's almost never used, or three headphones that are used pretty much daily.

I'd like to put the money into another headphone. My options:

HD700 - really not sure, afraid they might be a bit boring sounding and slighly on the slow side. Perhaps unwarranted.

K712 - the number-1 choice. Afraid they'll sound too much like my K7XX. Not sure if it's a valid concern.

Q701 + K612 - I actually own a K612, but they're on a permanent loan to a friend and I kinda miss them. The Q comes in Kermit Green. 'nuff said.

Another 702, as I love them so much and would love a backup, and spend the rest on tubes and a few accessories. I would like to include a higher-z can, hence the K612, but it's not a mandatory consideration. Resolution is.

Thoughts, ideas? I'm pretty open.
 
Oct 31, 2015 at 3:36 AM Post #321 of 384

Renderman

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On a more serious note, I'm seriously considering selling my HD600 and DT880/600. Just don't use them much, as I greatly prefer my modified K702 and at times the 7XX.

I'd like to put the money into another headphone. My options:

HD700 - really not sure, afraid they might be a bit boring sounding and slighly on the slow side. Perhaps unwarranted.

K712 - the number-1 choice. Afraid they'll sound too much like my K7XX. Not sure if it's a valid concern.

Q701 + K612 - I actually own a K612, but they're on a permanent loan to a friend and I kinda miss them. The Q comes in Kermit Green. 'nuff said.

Another 702, as I love them so much and would love a backup, and spend the rest on tubes and a few accessories. I would like to include a higher-z can, hence the K612, but it's not a mandatory consideration. Resolution is.

Thoughts, ideas? I'm pretty open.

Yes! Lots of those actualy! :)
 
First of all I really think you would enjoy listening to the Philips Fidelio X2, it is like nothing Philips has ever made, Similar in character to the K701/K7XX but with more resolution. It also extends deeper, mainly down low but also at the top. You might have reservations about the brand but if you can, you really should try to listen to them (and do it critically! :).
 
The only other option I can suggest is of course the Beyerdynamic T1(G2). I know you are selling a Beyer but I can't not suggest this. I've heard and own way too many headphones but none of them come close to the resolution of the T1s. Even if they might be slightly bright, the highs are never sharp or harsh, best highs I ever heard. Aslo the pairing with the Elise is just beautiful.
 
I know it is not easy to change someone's mind but I really hope you consider these options. Not because I like those headphones but because I truly believe you would enjoy them.
 
Enjoy contemplating your acquisition!
 
Oct 31, 2015 at 4:28 AM Post #322 of 384

hpamdr

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On a more serious note, I'm seriously considering selling my HD600 and DT880/600. Just don't use them much, as I greatly prefer my modified K702 and at times the 7XX.

This would leave me with the two pairs of K7-series AKGs, the beloved Beyer DT990pro, a K550 that I only use when i need a sealed can and it works quite well in that application, and 900x that, if anything, isn't terribly hot on the ears in the summer, and I like their sound and the light weight. In essence, four headphones, not counting the K550 that's almost never used, or three headphones that are used pretty much daily.

I'd like to put the money into another headphone. My options:

HD700 - really not sure, afraid they might be a bit boring sounding and slighly on the slow side. Perhaps unwarranted.

K712 - the number-1 choice. Afraid they'll sound too much like my K7XX. Not sure if it's a valid concern.

Q701 + K612 - I actually own a K612, but they're on a permanent loan to a friend and I kinda miss them. The Q comes in Kermit Green. 'nuff said.

Another 702, as I love them so much and would love a backup, and spend the rest on tubes and a few accessories. I would like to include a higher-z can, hence the K612, but it's not a mandatory consideration. Resolution is.

Thoughts, ideas? I'm pretty open.


I would suggest you to go for T1 gen1 if you want to have best for the value as you are already have a DT880/600 you will not be disappointed.. or Directly T1 gen2 but this will probably cost you 200$ more !
 
HD700 is a good headphone for the price (but I did preferred T1), you can ask gibosi about the mod to make it almost perfect.
 
If you want to wait next year you will have the HD800s... or get used HD800 :wink: 
 
Oct 31, 2015 at 5:10 AM Post #323 of 384

Shaffer

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Thank you for the advice, guys. I appreciate it.

For whatever reason, the T1 doesn't really appeal to me. The K702 is significantly more resolving than the K7XX, and if I could be sure - or even semi-sure - of a similar improvement, there would be no contest. I'd buy the K712, and still may. Don't really want the HD800; too garish for my tastes. No planars, either. That's why I'm kinda thinking of buying another K702 as a backup, but that's really boring, so I wouldn't mind exploring other options.

Renn, I was under the impression that the X2 were less resolving and transparent than the K702. No? K7XX I can envision without much trouble.

Ideally, I'd like an improved version of the K702 with ~150-300 Ohm nominal impedance. I know that's not possible, so what else comes close? Open only.
 
Oct 31, 2015 at 5:36 AM Post #324 of 384

Renderman

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Thank you for the advice, guys. I appreciate it.

For whatever reason, the T1 doesn't really appeal to me. The K702 is significantly more resolving than the K7XX, and if I could be sure - or even semi-sure - of a similar improvement, there would be no contest. I'd buy the K712, and still may. Don't really want the HD800; too garish for my tastes. No planars, either. That's why I'm kinda thinking of buying another K702 as a backup, but that's really boring, so I wouldn't mind exploring other options.

Renn, I was under the impression that the X2 were less resolving and transparent than the K702. No? K7XX I can envision without much trouble.

Ideally, I'd like an improved version of the K702 with ~150-300 Ohm nominal impedance. I know that's not possible, so what else comes close? Open only.

I have spent a lot of time listening to and comparing the T1/K702/K7XX and X2 and I will say this. I fully disagree that the X2 are less resolving than the K702. The K702 are very nice headphones but the X2 have better tonal balance, extension on both ends and resolution. No need to take my word for it, this is just what I hear. The X2 do however need quite a lot of burn-in time (I would guess 300+ hours, I did this just keeping them plugged in even when listening to speakers). The X2 are also very well built and I think they have a very nice, classic style to them. (Just feel that leather... mmmm)
 
It would be nice to be able to have headphones built to spec. I would also like 300 Ohm (The sweet spot for Elise!) open headphones with the resolution of the T1 and the tonal balance of the X2. Maybe a manufacturer is reading this and is interested in building those? (AKG? Beyerdynamic? Philips? Sennheiser?) I suspect there would be a lot of takers!
 
Disclaimer: For the (extremely) attentive reader, I do not own K702. I have a pair on an extended loan from a very generous friend.
 
Oct 31, 2015 at 6:03 AM Post #326 of 384

Liu Junyuan

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My vote goes for the HD650. I prefer it to the HD800, HE-6, K7XX, HE-500--all of which I currently own--in addition to those I once owned. I really like the HD600 as well. Are you sure you want to sell it for another AKG in the K7 family? You may really regret that. I love the DT880 too, but the Senn HD6xx are sort of essential for the amps you like. Hence my recommendation for the venerable HD650.

The HD800 and HE-6 are close to the HD650 for me, but to be fair my gear may be holding both back. I can fully understand your resistance to the strong L/R headstage tilt of planars (but to be fair this emphasis on width is characteristic of AKGs), but the HE-400i or used HE-560 (both very affordable) are great options. I am a major fan of the 560.

Since you are into AKG, why not the flagship? (Though I have heard some who prefer the K7XX to it and believe that the K812 to be an overpriced mess, perhaps a Massdrop sale for $800 K812 is worth the wait for you).
 
Oct 31, 2015 at 7:58 AM Post #327 of 384

Shaffer

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My vote goes for the HD650. I prefer it to the HD800, HE-6, K7XX, HE-500--all of which I currently own--in addition to those I once owned. I really like the HD600 as well. Are you sure you want to sell it for another AKG in the K7 family? You may really regret that. I love the DT880 too, but the Senn HD6xx are sort of essential for the amps you like. Hence my recommendation for the venerable HD650.


I've put literally at least a thousand hours on (each) HD600 and DT880. My closest friend owns HD650 and we've traded for weeks at a time. I prefer my modded K702. It's what I use the bulk of the time. The other cans mostly just sit around, so I figure why not sell them?

The HD800 and HE-6 are close to the HD650 for me, but to be fair my gear may be holding both back. I can fully understand your resistance to the strong L/R headstage tilt of planars (but to be fair this emphasis on width is characteristic of AKGs), but the HE-400i or used HE-560 (both very affordable) are great options. I am a major fan of the 560.


Never cared for planars, including speakers. Just not my preference :)

Since you are into AKG, why not the flagship? (Though I have heard some who prefer the K7XX to it and believe that the K812 to be an overpriced mess, perhaps a Massdrop sale for $800 K812 is worth the wait for you).


I've owned state of the art systems for decades; downsized a few years ago. Flagships do nothing for me; I only care about the sound. Who knows, I may llike how the K812 sound, but that's a lot of money to take a chance with, especially when I'm really happy with the K702. Just don't feel like I'm really missing anything. Clearly, I really like the K702 and if all else fails, I'll likely go for K712. I've been trying to think of a high-ish-Z can that I'd like and have come up with absolutely nothing other than HD700. Not terribly confident about those, either, to be perfectly honest. Where does that leave me? X2 sound like a possibility, but low-z. Maybe a T90? I auditioned them for a while and didn't walk away terribly impressed, plus if that were the route to take, T1 can be had for just a bit more.

Heh, I suppose I could change thing a bit and opt for K701, but the K702 is a better headphone - matched drivers. I'm completely out of ideas. Almost feels like I'm trying to talk myself out of the K712. That would leave me with DT990pro as the high-z 'phone, which I like a lot, and 900x for the summer. I'd sure like something different; the K712 seems like such a predictable choice. I dunno, maybe I like the modded K702 so much, because they sound a lot like my speakers and I'm on my third pair of those. lol
 
Oct 31, 2015 at 8:18 AM Post #328 of 384

Renderman

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I've put literally at least a thousand hours on (each) HD600 and DT880. My closest friend owns HD650 and we've traded for weeks at a time. I prefer my modded K702. It's what I use the bulk of the time. The other cans mostly just sit around, so I figure why not sell them?
Never cared for planars, including speakers. Just not my preference :)
I've owned state of the art systems for decades; downsized a few years ago. Flagships do nothing for me; I only care about the sound. Who knows, I may llike how the K812 sound, but that's a lot of money to take a chance with, especially when I'm really happy with the K702. Just don't feel like I'm really missing anything. Clearly, I really like the K702 and if all else fails, I'll likely go for K712. I've been trying to think of a high-ish-Z can that I'd like and have come up with absolutely nothing other than HD700. Not terribly confident about those, either, to be perfectly honest. Where does that leave me? X2 sound like a possibility, but low-z. Maybe a T90? I auditioned them for a while and didn't walk away terribly impressed, plus if that were the route to take, T1 can be had for just a bit more.

Heh, I suppose I could change thing a bit and opt for K701, but the K702 is a better headphone - matched drivers. I'm completely out of ideas. Almost feels like I'm trying to talk myself out of the K712. That would leave me with DT990pro as the high-z 'phone, which I like a lot, and 900x for the summer. I'd sure like something different; the K712 seems like such a predictable choice. I dunno, maybe I like the modded K702 so much, because they sound a lot like my speakers and I'm on my third pair of those. lol

 
I agree on the HD600 and HD650, they are quite good headphones but I also prefer X2 and T1 to those, the AKG K7XX have a slight edge over them I think.
 
Would be curious why you dislike the T1, modified mine slightly to tame the highs and get the bass at nominal level (the T1s bass does go very deep, once you hear it) but then it is very rewarding to hear the resolution the headphones can bring.
 
I use the X2 daily, very comfortable, very enjoyable headphones. There is no one region in the tonal balance that sticks out, nothing to irk me. One of the very few headphones to give me that experience. I bought mine brand new in box for only 200 euros including shipping. Worth every single cent to me! :D
 
I see you mention the AKGs a lot, understandable as you like your K702 so much. If that is what you prefer deep in your heart then get another AKG or maybe even no other headphones at all. If you want a new experience (with the chance of maybe liking it better) get a T1 or X2. :)
 
Hope this helps you make the right choice!
 
Oct 31, 2015 at 8:33 AM Post #329 of 384

Shaffer

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I don't now whether I dislike the T1; the thought of having it just doesn't excite me if you know what I mean. A year ago it did. It's like cars. I can't think of a modern automobile that I'd trade my Evo IX for. Not a one.

Since buying the Elise and hearing the K702s with it, I was smitten by the sound of the combo. Not as much before. I actually used both HD600 and DT880 a lot more often. For whatever reason, the Elise/AKG synergy really gets to me. This being said, it's hardly optimal for the DV, so if I get either the K712 or the X2, or both, I'll have to use the DT990 with the amp. But, I think I could live with that. :)

I'm very curious to hear when gibosi says about his HD700. They're still in the running.
 
Oct 31, 2015 at 8:45 AM Post #330 of 384

Shaffer

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Just occurred to me; how about Grade 325e? I head they're significantly warmer sounding than the preceding model. The only pair of Grados I've owned were the original SR-80 with a Little Headroom some +20 years ago, and don't recall being blown away. Maybe the Grados are better these days? Still low-z.
 

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