[HOWIE13]

@mordy and @richdytch
 
Inspired by your posts I've played around too- given the awful stormy weather tonight this seemed a sensible thing to do.
 
Using EL3N drivers I changed my RCA 6BL7s' accompanying power tubes between the modern Russian re-issue T-S 6SN7GTB, and the original T-S 6SN7GTB and a T-S 6SN7GT, both from the 50/60's.
 
The two TB's were very similar and as you  describe, rather woolly and lacking clarity, but the GT was much better and lacked nothing in neutrality, clarity and imaging. Actually very good sounding.
 
However, when I switched drivers to the K-R VT231 the sound firmed up all round with all three tubes and sounded very good, but again the 6BL7/ T-S 6SN7GT combo was my favourite. Excellent, rich, clear sound.
 
As you say, so many tubes combos sound good with Elise- we have so many options. 

 

 

[richdytch]

@Mordy yes, my 6bl7 pairs have different brands despite looking to be of identical construction. I had been thinking of getting some Cetron 7236 since they seem to go for reasonable prices. But currently so happy with this setup that I've lost some motivation to do that. Maybe in the new year. I've heard they're pretty close to the Tung Sol... would you agree?

Trying to avoid thoughts of upgrading the Elise

 

[richdytch]

@howie13 glad to hear you've recreated this setup - I tried other 6sn7 tubes in the power setup but actually settled on the reissue TSs because of their slight murkiness. My system tends towards being lean/resolving/bright so these with the 6bl7 were the perfect thing to counter that. Definitely a strong partnership between the sn/bl setup and 6sn7 drivers.

 

[mordy]

Trying to figure out which Ken Rad tubes to get - I assume that the VT231 is the same as 6SN7. The prices are all over the map - from $10 to $90 and up.
 
What should I look for? VT? 6SN7? Clear top? Grey glass? Etc etc

 

[richdytch]

Trying to figure out which Ken Rad tubes to get - I assume that the VT231 is the same as 6SN7. The prices are all over the map - from $10 to $90 and up.

What should I look for? VT? 6SN7? Clear top? Grey glass? Etc etc

VT231 is the same as 6SN7, I believe that was just an earlier designation. GE took over the Kentucky Radio factory in something like 1948 and I think the ones made prior to that are considered to be better. That would certainly hold up for my two pairs - the 1950 pair are still wonderful but can't match the silkiness and transparency of the 1944 pair. I've read a lot about the smoked glass ones but there's a school of thought that they're not superior in any way. I can't comment because I've not heard the smoked glass version.

All that said, the 1950 double D getter pair I have are huge fun, and have a lot of character and body. I guess that a lot of the original expertise and source materials remained at he KR factory for quite some time after the GE takeover.

 

[hypnos1]

Hi Hypnos, well I'm only a couple of hours' drive from Milton Keynes, so that is very tempting. But to be honest I've been trying to avoid thinking about the Elise_II since I've spent far too much on audio kit this year. However it does give me an added incentive to try harder at work and max out on the bonus

The Elise is still the single biggest upgrade I've ever made to my signal chain going into the speakers. I'm not entirely sure how long I've had it either - probably 8 or 9 months, but it still does things that amaze me, on a daily basis. Big respect for the Feliks crew. I keep eyeing up their 2A3 amps, etc, but fortunately my PMCs, while amazing, are too inefficient to be powered by them. Hence 140W of solid state grunt behind them. Fortunate, because it means I won't spend the cash on new power amp AND speakers.

 
Yo, rd...BIG respect for F-A ...they really are miracle workers lol!

 
And what can I say...you've just got to get working 24/7 for that SUPER bonus!...Why? - just read below...

 

@howie13 glad to hear you've recreated this setup

- I tried other 6sn7 tubes in the power setup but actually settled on the reissue TSs because of their slight murkiness. My system tends towards being lean/resolving/bright so these with the 6bl7 were the perfect thing to counter that. Definitely a strong partnership between the sn/bl setup and 6sn7 drivers.

 
MKII will transform those aspects as if by magic lol...FAR, FAR better than any tube(s) can manage by itself(themselves)!!!
 
However, I can fully understand your quandary re. the MK meet...but it would still be great to put a face to the name lol!

...

 

[HOWIE13]

@mordy
 
Needs to have VT231 printed on it as well as 6SN7.  VT231 means it was made around WW2 period. Most are dark glass but a few have clear glass. The clear glass ones tend to be cheaper as dealers don't always recognise them for what they are. If you see a clear glass one, the plates should be black and offset to each other.
 
Here's a typical example of the dark glass-but I would personally eschew this one as it has a loose base -hence its low price. 
 
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Ken-Rad-JAN-CKR-6SN7GT-VT-231-1940s-Vintage-USA-Vacuum-Tube-Amplitrex-Tested-/282294622598?hash=item41ba121986:g:EvYAAOSwU-pXtNGI

 

[richdytch]

Yo, rd...BIG respect for F-A ...they really are miracle workers lol!

And what can I say...you've just got to get working 24/7 for that SUPER bonus!...Why? - just read below...


MKII will transform those aspects as if by magic lol...FAR, FAR better than any tube(s) can manage by itself(themselves)!!!

However, I can fully understand your quandary re. the MK meet...but it would still be great to put a face to the name lol! :wink_face: ...

I'll keep an eye out for the date Hypnos. It's only a short drive and I could use some of my hotel points (the main benefit of spending a lot of time away with work) to stay down rather than having to hurry back!

Has there been any suggested price for Elise II yet?

 

[richdytch]

I'll keep an eye out for the date Hypnos. It's only a short drive and I could use some of my hotel points (the main benefit of spending a lot of time away with work) to stay down rather than having to hurry back!

Has there been any suggested price for Elise II yet?

Ah, it's 2nd April. The day before my birthday....hmmm

 

[hypnos1]

Ah, it's 2nd April. The day before my birthday....hmmm

 
Hmmm indeed, rd....a potential postponed birthday present to yourself lol?...Sorry, mustn't lead you off the straight and narrow - just yet, anyway!!

 
And no word yet on likely price alas - it appears they'll be "brainstorming" the subject when they return from their Christmas break. I know they well deserve their break, but let's hope it isn't too long, eh?!!

...

 

[DecentLevi]

  Hi richdytch,
 
Tried your 6BL7/6SN7 combination of power tubes. I used a GE BL and the Russian Tung Sol reissue SN tubes - don't have Ken-Rads, so I used my favorite drivers, the EL3N. It is indeed a very nice combination with very good sound.
 
But....compared to my GEC 6AS7 it is lacking in a few areas: The mid bass is recessed, the instrument separation is more fuzzy, and the BL/SN combo is lacking the clarity, sweetness and energy of the GEC tubes.
 
Unfortunately the GEC 6AS7/A1834 command astronomical prices today, but in my system they are the best sounding power tubes.

From owning both 6AS7G and 6080 GEC  tubes and Tung Sol 5998 for a while, I've found the Tung-Sol's to be quite comparable - often even preferrable to the GEC's. They both have their differences but perform quite on-par; the Tung-Sol's being slightly more spacious / detailed / liquid and perhaps organic, the GEC being more 3D like, more neutral tone and with better imaging. TS 5998 are much more affordable and available.

 

[UntilThen]

 
In the past I tried different power tube combinations of four or six tubes, but have reverted to a two-tube set-up. With tubes such as the Tung Sol 7236,5998 and Bendix 6080WB (and the bargain RCA 6080) there is no need for multiple power tubes IMHO.
 

I'm a happy man to see such proclamation from someone who have tried it all. 

 

[hypnos1]

  I'm a happy man to see such proclamation from someone who have tried it all. 

 
Yes indeed, UT....@mordy has surely put many combinations through their paces, with due diligence, patience and thoroughness. I'm only glad he (like myself!) was fortunate enough to snaffle a nice pair of the GECs for a fairly reasonable price lol!

. It does sadden me that they usually command rather silly figures.... but with patience, scrutiny and determination (plus a good dose of LUCK!), relative bargains do sometimes come along - and are well worth the extra effort IMHO....so, GOOD HUNTING!!...

 
And to any who may not yet have visited the "Impressions" thread...A VERY MERRY CHRISTMAS to you...and continued joy with your Elise throughout the New Year - and beyond!!   CHEERS!...

 

[HOWIE13]

Merry Christmas!  

 

[richdytch]

Season's greetings to all!