[UntilThen]

Yay it's rocking.... and no explosion. Good sound too on HD650. Solid... 

 
Dreams by Fleetwood Mac .... I'm dreaming
 

 
No hum too what a bonus. Only 4.8A cool. 

 
 
Trust @hpamdr to think of all these weird combinations.
 
I've got 2xVisseaux6A6 and 2xMazda6N7g / 2xVisseaux6N7g
 
Hmmm better on Beyer T1 hahaha.

 

[UntilThen]

I would never have thought of using 4x6N7Gs as power tubes but it sounds really good. With EL3N as drivers, there's more volume gain and superb clarity and details. Great soundstage too. Well done @hpamdr for this suggestion. The Mazda 6N7G provides a bright and vibrant sound. 
 

 

[pctazhp]

  @pctazhp A great post. Very informative.

Thanks Tom )))

 

[connieflyer]

What I would like to see, is take an adapter like JV's 6 place in one adapter and make a 4 place adapter in one piece.  Would make a smaller over hang and look much better, IMHO that is.  With the spread of the power sockets should be possible to span one adapter across powers and have 4 tubes.  Wish I would have thought of this sooner, like before I bought separte adapters. MrsL should be able to use the specs from JV's setup to come up with a new product.  I would buy that, even though I have two adapters on the way in.  Would help for "new" Elise customers, also.

 

[mordy]

Hi cf,
 
Problem is that the 6 x adapter is now priced at $100 + shipping $10 which I think is too much....
 
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-Gold-plated-6-6BL7-TO-2-6AS7-Tube-adapter-For-Elise-by-Feliks-Audio-/191812681690?hash=item2ca8ed3fda:g:FEYAAOSwG-1WzSQL

 

[connieflyer]

At anywhere close to that I would not consider it

 

[JazzVinyl]

At anywhere close to that I would not consider it

CF - you can always make your own

The big advantage of the one piece 6x is it's lower profile. Much nicer than the 2x adapter imo, because it's far more solid. The 2x are "okay" but do not feel as well made to me.

Overhang with 6x is about 3/4 of an inch, on each side.

6x can be used as a 4x if desired, as they are all in there in Parallel. You can also mix-n-match with 6AS7 / 5998 / 6080 (if you have the external heat amperage that is necessary).
It's good that the 6x does not connect pins 7 & 8, so that you must heat externally, no chance of blowing up the Elise Transformer, with that adapter.

I was surprised, too, that the price went to $100.00, but she must have her reasons.

It is well made, and unique to the Elise amp.

Sound benefit will lessen the sting of the cost:

I spent $200.00 plus shipping on a used pair of 5998's - in my opinion, this item, plus an external heat power supply, plus 6x 6BL7's - sounds better than 5998's and costs about the same. If you needed more 6BL7's in the future, they will be far cheaper to obtain, than buying another pair of 5998's.

It all depends on External Heat...some folks say they are all thumbs, and therefore are not comfortable with attempting to externally heat. If that is the case, definitely do not bother with the 6x 6BL7 adapter.

Don't forget one additional advantage to the 6x adapter - is far less internal heat, inside your Elise.....externally heating of your power tubes (and with this adapter it could be multiple 6BL7's or multiple 6AS7's or any combo that you have the heater current for) keeps your Elise running much cooler, she will therefore last much longer. Look under any tube amp that has been in operation for years and you quickly see the telltale signs that it's the heat that deteriorates a tube amp.

If I had it to do over again, I would externally heat my power tubes, from day one.
1x, 2x, 4x or 6x power tubes, Elise _will_ benefit from heating them, externally.


Cheers to all the LUCKY ones...

 

[supersonic395]

That's good news! And for me too - one person less in the cue in front of me  .    May I ask what your invoice nr is ss395? 38? 39 maybe? Mine is 40.

I'm not in front of you as due to personal reasons I had to place my order on hold. However I'll be taking care of it with the team next week.

So I'll be in for a wait BUT I do have over 1000 albums to rip into flac in the meantime

 

[hypnos1]

  Sometimes I am asked to compare the Elise with my Valhalla2 or Little Dot MKIV SE amps. It has been months since I powered up my LD. I may get around to doing a comparison with the it in a few weeks, but for now I can report on the comparison I have been making between the Elise and the V2.
 
I have been using the EL3N/5998 combo in the Elise for purpose of the comparison. This is not necessarily my favorite combo. I chose it for this purpose because it sounds very good to me, yet uses tubes that are still generally available, albeit admittedly pretty expensive.
 
For the V2 I have stayed with the stock power tubes, but am using Amperex Bugle Boys for the drivers, which I bought from Ebay for $46. The Bugle Boys do improve the performance of the V2.
 
If I had never heard the Elise, I could be happy with the V2 – happy but not thrilled. With the Elise I’m thrilled every time I listen to it with just about any of the tube combos I have. While listening to the Elise I have trouble ending my listening sessions – it is that involving. With the V2, I don’t have nearly as much trouble ending a session. In fact, after a while I start to experience a mild form of listener fatigue. I’m not sure why, but it is real for me.
 
The V2 is a brighter amp. Initially that led me to conclude that it might be more detailed. But I believe that “detail” is not always a useful term. I prefer the term “information”. For me “information” is a more comprehensive term. It describes what I believe is the degree of fidelity to the live performance that was recorded. Of course, I can’t be sure because I would not have heard the live performance, but if I say that a particular amp, headphone or DAC provides more “information”, it means that what I’m hearing seems more natural and what my experience tells me is closer to live music.
 
In this sense, the Elise provides significantly more information than the V2. Vocals have more body and “flesh”. Instruments have more body and “bloom”. In comparison, the V2 sounds “flat”. It is less involving, and the sound stage is not as good. And when I say “sound stage” I don’t just mean from a dimensional viewpoint (depth and width), but also localization and clear placement of vocals and instruments within the sound stage. To use one of my favorite descriptive terms (shamelessly stolen from the late Harry Pearson), the air between instruments and vocals is far more noticeable and apparent on the Elise than it is on the V2.
 
All tube amps add some coloration because of the presence of even order harmonics. They also sound smoother than many solid state amps possibly because of a lower level of odd order harmonics. I cannot be sure how much of the “information” I believe I am hearing from the Elise is due to greater even order harmonics than with the V2. But what I’m hearing does not seem to be “distortion”. I hear subtle nuances in both male and female vocals with the Elise not present with the V2, as well as more timber in instruments. 
Another area the Elise excels is dynamics. It is much more exciting than the V2, but not because it is colored. Rather it is the slam from top to bottom of the audible frequency range. It is unqualifiedly effortless without any sign of strain. I can’t say the same for the V2. There is something a little annoying about many of the loud passages I hear with the V2. It is not a huge problem, but it is certainly something I notice more than I prefer.
 
While I’m at it, I want to mention that lately I have been doing a lot of listening with my lowly Sennheiser HD598s. When I pulled them out and dusted them off a couple of weeks ago I was shocked at how wonderful the HD598s sound with the Elise. I had come to finally realize that I just couldn’t continue using my HD700s because of the listener fatigue I experienced from the treble spike over extended listening periods. 
 
I have on order a new pair of HD800S, with a right of return. I must say that the backorder situation with the new S version is about the same as the Elise. I know I will probably destroy whatever credibility I might have as a critical listener, but I have to say the HD800S is going to have to be considerably better than my 598s to justify the price different. It is also going to have to be a lot better than my T1, Gen 2, phones, because I won’t be keeping both.
 
I am aware that the price difference (with tubes I’m using) between the V2 and Elise is substantial. But the V2 is a highly regarded amp, and hopefully what I’ve written will give someone who is considering the Elise a point of reference.
 
If someone were starting from scratch and needed to stay under $2,000, I could in good conscience recommend they order an Elise without tubes, a pair of EL3Ns for drivers, a pair of 5998s or similar power tubes, a Schiit MultiBit DAC, and a pair of HD598s (and upgrade the phones later if they felt inclined). They could probably also throw in a pair of Morrow MA3 interconnects (which I have) to use between the DAC and amp, if they believe cables make a difference, and still be under $2,000 (I think my math is right!!!).
 
Of course, as budget permitted, I would certainly not discourage them from trying other tube combos recommended here. But I would also have to tell them that I suspect that new money might be initially invested most effectively in trying other headphones including the T1 (Gen 1 or 2) and HD800 (Classic or S).
 
Much of the positive qualities of the Elise I describe above are, in my opinion, due in no small part to using the EL3N tubes for drivers. While the Elise even with stock tubes is very good, and as far as I can remember superior to the V2, the EL3N is significantly better than any other drivers I have tried (including Siemens C3G, Fivre 6N7G = ECC31 black plates . "with Horn" anno 1942, Philips MiniWatt FDD20 and 6BL7). I appreciate the pioneering efforts of @hypnos1 and @UntilThen with the EL3Ns for bringing them to my attention. And thanks to Feliks Audio for designing and producing an amp that could take such great advantage of these tubes. 
 
There certainly may be tubes I haven’t heard that are equal to or exceed the EL3Ns. Just more icing on the exquisite and delicious cake - that cake being Feliks Audio’s Elise. I will readily admit I have never heard any of the megabuck headphone amps. But there is no real fairy dust in audio. The laws of physics still apply. I find it hard to believe that the designers of the big buck amps have discovered some breakthrough electronic secret that has eluded electronic engineers for decades and that can only be implemented at the cost of thousands. Of course, I could be all wet. But there is one thing of which I am certain. A significant percentage of the cost of most expensive audio electronics usually goes into cosmetics. Expectation bias anyone????

 
Hi pct.
 
I make no apologies for quoting your full post here - it does indeed have great sincerity and merit, warranting a repeat, lol...and has tempted me (along with references to P P & M!) to have a break from my break and say just how spot on was @WB2016's statement a while back regarding the EL family of tubes' use in studios, and their long-term 'sweet spot' nature, both in terms of the time taken to reach it and then their long life maintenance of same....
 
I have in fact already mentioned (a good few times, lol!) how I underestimated the burn-in time needed for the EL3Ns to really shine...but I have found even 200 to 300 hours are not nearly enough. Recent revisiting of my favourite pieces for testing - that I have heard literally hundreds of times,  and that are further hundreds of hours down the road since last listen - has been a true revelation, and quite unexpected :
 
All the qualities I covered in depth as time progressed have continued to develop further, and to a degree where Mike Oldfield's 'Elements' album (basically a 'Best of') had me convinced I was listening to a 'New, Improved, Super MK2 Elise'!....and this is no hyperbolic exaggeration. The transformation had me (temporarily!) lost for words - and breath! -  and wondering whether I had suddenly been blessed with massively improved hearing....but I'm afraid I don't really believe in such miracles, alas. This miraculous improvement itself I do believe, however - since no other parameter could have changed such as to explain what I am now hearing....(I shan't bore folks with repeated listing of the qualities I'm discussing...please just look back to my (fairly!) recent postings on this subject). Suffice to say that no other tube has come close to this level of performance - over any length of time...not even the mighty C3g'S'...and with the added benefit that I can now turn up the volume a fair amount, bringing even more glorious detailed and full-bodied sound without my ears/head having to suffer for such a treat! (which I couldn't do to anywhere near the same degree with my beloved C3gSs - especially via the Beyer T1s!!).
 
Now I know my own final sound is undoubtedly helped by my uber-expensive GEC CV2523s (6AS7G), and formed within the rest of my own particular system. I will not make dogmatic statements about the EL3N being better than any other tube on the planet (even though for me personally I believe it to be not far off, lol!

), but what I can say with a fair degree of confidence is that I'm sure the startling results of extensive burn-in that I have experienced are not limited to just my own set-up....in other words, to those who are interested in this tube I say....please, please be very patient, and you will most probably be rewarded BIG time...

...CHEERS!....

 

[hypnos1]

I'm not in front of you as due to personal reasons I had to place my order on hold. However I'll be taking care of it with the team next week.

So I'll be in for a wait BUT I do have over 1000 albums to rip into flac in the meantime

 
Sorry to see you have a fair wait to endure, s395...but glad you will be spending the time doing something very useful in the end, lol!

...(hope the time  passes quickly for you, though...

).

 

[mordy]

Hi h1,
 
Completely agree that the EL3N keeps on improving, even after extended use. As far as I am concerned, this tube remains in the driver's seat in my amp. For me, it is simply the best driver tube I have come across at this point in time.
 
I know that you are reluctant to add external heating to your Elise (and I certainly understand why), but it would be very interesting to hear your comments on a comparison between the 6BL7 power tubes (multiples of 4 or 6) compared to your GEC 6AS7 tubes.

 

[Audict123]

  I would never have thought of using 4x6N7Gs as power tubes but it sounds really good. With EL3N as drivers, there's more volume gain and superb clarity and details. Great soundstage too. Well done @hpamdr for this suggestion. The Mazda 6N7G provides a bright and vibrant sound. 
 

Yet another combo to try once I receive my Elise. When I'm done, I'll be retired!
 
When hunting for other tubes, I also found some Visseaux 6C5G's - equivalent to 6J5G (beloved by the project Amber people) and essentially the single triode version of 6SN7. They are cute: somewhat smaller than 6N7G tubes but otherwise rather similar. I have four now. These could go in the driver position using dual 6J5 to 6SN7 adapters but I wonder now if that would fit in the front sockets. These are rather close.... Could someone measure the exact distance between the centers of the Elise's front sockets?

 

[Audict123]

  What I would like to see, is take an adapter like JV's 6 place in one adapter and make a 4 place adapter in one piece.  Would make a smaller over hang and look much better, IMHO that is.  With the spread of the power sockets should be possible to span one adapter across powers and have 4 tubes.  Wish I would have thought of this sooner, like before I bought separte adapters. MrsL should be able to use the specs from JV's setup to come up with a new product.  I would buy that, even though I have two adapters on the way in.  Would help for "new" Elise customers, also.

That sounds like a great idea to me! At a fair price, I'd buy one too...

 

[UntilThen]

  Yet another combo to try once I receive my Elise. When I'm done, I'll be retired!
 
When hunting for other tubes, I also found some Visseaux 6C5G's - equivalent to 6J5G (beloved by the project Amber people) and essentially the single triode version of 6SN7. They are cute: somewhat smaller than 6N7G tubes but otherwise rather similar. I have four now. These could go in the driver position using dual 6J5 to 6SN7 adapters but I wonder now if that would fit in the front sockets. These are rather close.... Could someone measure the exact distance between the centers of the Elise's front sockets?

It's 5.8cm or 2.25inches between the centre point of the 2 front sockets.
 
Those who have 4x6N7G try and have a listen with EL3N in the drivers seat. It kept me up till 3am. No need for eternal power supply. This setup is a cool 5A and it's an amazing sound. I'll roll in different 6N7G today of which I have 10 pairs of different brands. 

 

[UntilThen]

   
Hi pct.
 
I make no apologies for quoting your full post here - it does indeed have great sincerity and merit, warranting a repeat, lol...and has tempted me (along with references to P P & M!) to have a break from my break and say just how spot on was @WB2016's statement a while back regarding the EL family of tubes' use in studios, and their long-term 'sweet spot' nature, both in terms of the time taken to reach it and then their long life maintenance of same....
 
I have in fact already mentioned (a good few times, lol!) how I underestimated the burn-in time needed for the EL3Ns to really shine...but I have found even 200 to 300 hours are not nearly enough. Recent revisiting of my favourite pieces for testing - that I have heard literally hundreds of times,  and that are further hundreds of hours down the road since last listen - has been a true revelation, and quite unexpected :
 
All the qualities I covered in depth as time progressed have continued to develop further, and to a degree where Mike Oldfield's 'Elements' album (basically a 'Best of') had me convinced I was listening to a 'New, Improved, Super MK2 Elise'!....and this is no hyperbolic exaggeration. The transformation had me (temporarily!) lost for words - and breath! -  and wondering whether I had suddenly been blessed with massively improved hearing....but I'm afraid I don't really believe in such miracles, alas. This miraculous improvement itself I do believe, however - since no other parameter could have changed such as to explain what I am now hearing....(I shan't bore folks with repeated listing of the qualities I'm discussing...please just look back to my (fairly!) recent postings on this subject). Suffice to say that no other tube has come close to this level of performance - over any length of time...not even the mighty C3g'S'...and with the added benefit that I can now turn up the volume a fair amount, bringing even more glorious detailed and full-bodied sound without my ears/head having to suffer for such a treat! (which I couldn't do to anywhere near the same degree with my beloved C3gSs - especially via the Beyer T1s!!).
 
Now I know my own final sound is undoubtedly helped by my uber-expensive GEC CV2523s (6AS7G), and formed within the rest of my own particular system. I will not make dogmatic statements about the EL3N being better than any other tube on the planet (even though for me personally I believe it to be not far off, lol!

), but what I can say with a fair degree of confidence is that I'm sure the startling results of extensive burn-in that I have experienced are not limited to just my own set-up....in other words, to those who are interested in this tube I say....please, please be very patient, and you will most probably be rewarded BIG time...

...CHEERS!....

Welcome back @hypnos1 

 Good to hear your impressions again. 
 
I do love the EL3N... like I need to repeat myself here. 

 I can confirm the long burn in benefits on the EL3N. In Elise drivers seat, they sound wonderful. Paired with any power tubes, whether in single pairs or multiples, it's the best tone I've heard in my collections.
 
I think your last statement is very important. Be patient in head-fi. Most of all, enjoy the music.