[OctavianH]

Just pushed the button on a secondhand Chord Hugo TT. My most expensive single purchase so far. Never had my finger hover over the buy button for so long. Still it's only money, I'm justifying purchase on money saved on petrol over the last year.

I was in the same situation as you trying to make self imposed limitations for the past year. In the end I made several purchases for the simple fact that I have worked almost all 2020 from home due to the pandemic and it seems 2021 will continue to do so. This means 16h/day for me to listen to Elise and the audio line just went up into the prioritisation queue because of this. Who knows what future reserves to us and if we will ever have so much time for music like we have now? So we should listen to it as good as possible. That being said, congratulations on your purchase! I am sure it is an excellent performer, and keep us posted about your project of building the Elekit TU-8200R!

 

[UntilThen]

Just pushed the button on a secondhand Chord Hugo TT. My most expensive single purchase so far. Never had my finger hover over the buy button for so long. Still it's only money, I'm justifying purchase on money saved on petrol over the last year.

Pushing buttons is what we do.

 

[UntilThen]

I was in the same situation as you trying to make self imposed limitations for the past year. In the end I made several purchases for the simple fact that I have worked almost all 2020 from home due to the pandemic and it seems 2021 will continue to do so. This means 16h/day for me to listen to Elise and the audio line just went up into the prioritisation queue because of this. Who knows what future reserves to us and if we will ever have so much time for music like we have now? So we should listen to it as good as possible. That being said, congratulations on your purchase! I am sure it is an excellent performer, and keep us posted about your project of building the Elekit TU-8200R!

Oh is @barontan2418 building a Elekit TU-8200R. Excited for you. @GDuss is also building one. Soon it will be one big happy Elekit family.

 

[OctavianH]

I played a little bit more with these Psvane KT88TII and tried them with some GE 7581A.

When used with Euforia's stock drivers, the Psvane CV181T2, the sound goes towards a more analytical direction, somehow reminding me about SS amplifiers. Now, combined with these warmer drivers, the sound goes a little bit towards a "tubey" sound, but still it retains the precise and punchy bass from the previous combination. A nice combo, at least on Elise.
And if you want to go further, I have to say that Philips EL3N as drivers combined with these neutral and more analytical powers gives a very full bodied sound.

You are loosing some detail, but obtain a creamy and nice analogue sound. For classic rock this is quite good. I guess it is time for some Black Sabbath.

 

[Jonwch]

I played a little bit more with these Psvane KT88TII and tried them with some GE 7581A.



When used with Euforia's stock drivers, the Psvane CV181T2, the sound goes towards a more analytical direction, somehow reminding me about SS amplifiers. Now, combined with these warmer drivers, the sound goes a little bit towards a "tubey" sound, but still it retains the precise and punchy bass from the previous combination. A nice combo, at least on Elise.
And if you want to go further, I have to say that Philips EL3N as drivers combined with these neutral and more analytical powers gives a very full bodies sound.



You are loosing some detail, but obtain a creamy and nice analogue sound. For classic rock this is quite good. I guess it is time for some Black Sabbath.

I just got my TT2 and couldn't be happier with it, but am doing homework for future upgrades to my system
Your system seems to be the direction I see myself going towards, with the mscaler and a gooey tube amp, and was wondering how the amplification of the elise compares to the amp built into the TT2. Also if I was to get a new piece of gear in the near future, do you recommend getting the mscaler or the amp first?

 

[OctavianH]

I just got my TT2 and couldn't be happier with it, but am doing homework for future upgrades to my system
Your system seems to be the direction I see myself going towards, with the mscaler and a gooey tube amp, and was wondering how the amplification of the elise compares to the amp built into the TT2. Also if I was to get a new piece of gear in the near future, do you recommend getting the mscaler or the amp first?

Well, tough question. I do not know the answer, but I can tell you some of my findings related to TT2, to M Scaler and also to Elise when combined with them.

1. Regarding influence of M Scaler in my setup. For me, using only headphones and TT2 in DAC mode (I do not use the integrated headphone amplifier of TT2 - the AMP mode), when switching M Scaler from Passive mode to Full upscaling mode I hear only a marginal difference. It is there, you have a small idea of better definition and separation, but I would say around 10%. A bigger difference for me is to completely remove M Scaler from the circuit. Strange, I know. Might be related to my own setup, preferences and so on. It is hard to say. On M Scaler thread you see hundreds of pages of debates, and it is hard to draw a conclusion.
2. Regarding TT2 as a DAC compared with Qutest. When I upgraded from Qutest to TT2 I had a feeling of better resolution, bigger sound stage but also a warmer sound. I kept both everytime on Incissive Neutral filter and listened through Elise. This means that adding Elise to TT2 as an external amplifier might be too much if you plan to have a neutral sound. It depends on which headphones you pair with. There is a big difference from what you hear using T1.2 compared with HD800 or ADX5000. And it is also a matter of personal preference. I like to have that warm analogue sound from the 70s when listening to Led Zeppelin or Black Sabbath. But this kind of sound might not be perfect for classical music or orchestral. However, Elise is like a chameleon and exchanging tubes might transform enough the sound to match your preferences, in detriment of your wallet. And TT2 needs also a linear power supply to shine. And if you add M Scaler you definitely need better dual BNC cables besides the supply. Both made big difference in my setup and you should not ignore them. And for all of these I recommend to use a power conditioner. I had benefits also for Elise, not only for TT2 and M Scaler when connecting my whole headphone line to an AudioPlan FineFilter S and TT2 + M Scaler in addition to a Furman AC210A-E.
3. Regarding how TT2 integrated headphone amplifier sounds compared to Elise. Well, I was never too good in describing sound using fancy words, but one thing you hear first when you try TT2 in AMP mode are the clarity and incredible dynamics. I had a feeling that everything happens faster, everything sounds crystal clear. But when I tried it with my 600 Ohm Beyers I also had a feeling that the bass is under my expectation as quantity, that the sound is relatively thin. Everything was technical, clean, precise but my T1.2 sounded much better on Elise. Again, a matter of preference. On the TT2 thread many praise it with Empyrean which are a dark pair of headphones with low impedance. Most probably those compensate on what I felt it was missing with my headphones. I cannot say since I never listened to Empyreans. On Elise everything happens a little bit slower, but each instrument weights harder. And a big advantage of Elise is that it is very responsible to tubes, it has countless possibilities of transforming the sound. On TT2 you just hear it, that's it, you like it or not, you have to get used to it. Of course, you can exchange a headphone cable or use some equalizer but I think the change is minimal compared to what you can do with Elise.

And now I'll try to answer you... If I will have at the moment TT2 on the table the first thing I would do is to obtain an LPS for it and compare how it sounds after I add that one. Then I will plug TT2's LPS into a power conditioner. Only next step for me would be to add the tube amplifier, and compare both external and internal amplifiers for some time. Thinking that both these upgrades (LPS+filtering and tube amplifier) are around half of M Scaler's price and that they will provide you more room to try and experiment compared to adding the M Scaler, which you just plug there and that's it, I think they are the best choice first. Of course, if you can try the M Scaler with the possibility to return it, you can do it right away. This is how I see it, let's hope others will come with more opinions. And of course, my answer might be related to my own setup and preferences as I already said. Adding power filtering and the LPS will, most probably, remove some brightness and harshness from the sound, and only after that you will know if you need also a tube amplifier or not.

Well, I am sure I have not properly provided an answer but let's hope my findings help.

 

[shafat777]

Can anyone tell me if i can use GE 7581a tubes using deyans adapters with my Elise?

 

[OctavianH]

Can anyone tell me if i can use GE 7581a tubes using deyans adapters with my Elise?

Yes, you can use those with the same adapters as those for KT66/77/88/6550A. A few posts above you see them as drivers.

 

[Jonwch]

Well, tough question. I do not know the answer, but I can tell you some of my findings related to TT2, to M Scaler and also to Elise when combined with them.

1. Regarding influence of M Scaler in my setup. For me, using only headphones and TT2 in DAC mode (I do not use the integrated headphone amplifier of TT2 - the AMP mode), when switching M Scaler from Passive mode to Full upscaling mode I hear only a marginal difference. It is there, you have a small idea of better definition and separation, but I would say around 10%. A bigger difference for me is to completely remove M Scaler from the circuit. Strange, I know. Might be related to my own setup, preferences and so on. It is hard to say. On M Scaler thread you see hundreds of pages of debates, and it is hard to draw a conclusion.
2. Regarding TT2 as a DAC compared with Qutest. When I upgraded from Qutest to TT2 I had a feeling of better resolution, bigger sound stage but also a warmer sound. I kept both everytime on Incissive Neutral filter and listened through Elise. This means that adding Elise to TT2 as an external amplifier might be too much if you plan to have a neutral sound. It depends on which headphones you pair with. There is a big difference from what you hear using T1.2 compared with HD800 or ADX5000. And it is also a matter of personal preference. I like to have that warm analogue sound from the 70s when listening to Led Zeppelin or Black Sabbath. But this kind of sound might not be perfect for classical music or orchestral. However, Elise is like a chameleon and exchanging tubes might transform enough the sound to match your preferences, in detriment of your wallet. And TT2 needs also a linear power supply to shine. And if you add M Scaler you definitely need better dual BNC cables besides the supply. Both made big difference in my setup and you should not ignore them. And for all of these I recommend to use a power conditioner. I had benefits also for Elise, not only for TT2 and M Scaler when connecting my whole headphone line to an AudioPlan FineFilter S and TT2 + M Scaler in addition to a Furman AC210A-E.
3. Regarding how TT2 integrated headphone amplifier sounds compared to Elise. Well, I was never too good in describing sound using fancy words, but one thing you hear first when you try TT2 in AMP mode are the clarity and incredible dynamics. I had a feeling that everything happens faster, everything sounds crystal clear. But when I tried it with my 600 Ohm Beyers I also had a feeling that the bass is under my expectation as quantity, that the sound is relatively thin. Everything was technical, clean, precise but my T1.2 sounded much better on Elise. Again, a matter of preference. On the TT2 thread many praise it with Empyrean which are a dark pair of headphones with low impedance. Most probably those compensate on what I felt it was missing with my headphones. I cannot say since I never listened to Empyreans. On Elise everything happens a little bit slower, but each instrument weights harder. And a big advantage of Elise is that it is very responsible to tubes, it has countless possibilities of transforming the sound. On TT2 you just hear it, that's it, you like it or not, you have to get used to it. Of course, you can exchange a headphone cable or use some equalizer but I think the change is minimal compared to what you can do with Elise.

And now I'll try to answer you... If I will have at the moment TT2 on the table the first thing I would do is to obtain an LPS for it and compare how it sounds after I add that one. Then I will plug TT2's LPS into a power conditioner. Only next step for me would be to add the tube amplifier, and compare both external and internal amplifiers for some time. Thinking that both these upgrades (LPS+filtering and tube amplifier) are around half of M Scaler's price and that they will provide you more room to try and experiment compared to adding the M Scaler, which you just plug there and that's it, I think they are the best choice first. Of course, if you can try the M Scaler with the possibility to return it, you can do it right away. This is how I see it, let's hope others will come with more opinions. And of course, my answer might be related to my own setup and preferences as I already said. Adding power filtering and the LPS will, most probably, remove some brightness and harshness from the sound, and only after that you will know if you need also a tube amplifier or not.

Well, I am sure I have not properly provided an answer but let's hope my findings help.

Wow, I could't have asked for a more detailed take, this helps quite a bit!

I bought the Empyreans in the beginning because I loved the musicality of it, the body of the sound end and especially the sound staging. I have always preferred a warmer sound, as I am quite sensitive to treble, and find brighter sounding setups extremely fatiguing. When choosing dacs, I initially tried out the Burson Conductor 3r and the Mytek Broolyn Dac+ amongst others, which I found to be warmer and easier to listen to for long periods of time. The TT2 was actually a surprise for me because I was always felt that Chord products had a tendency to be slightly brighter than I am comfortable with, granted it is still slightly brighter than I am normally used to, the dynamics, the clarity and soundstage are all to die for.

My though behind getting a tube amp is to make the music more melt in your chair after a long day at the office, which as of listening off the tt2 has me super engaged in the music, at the edge of my chair. That way I can have best of both worlds and swap between one or the other when I feel like it.

I know my dealer has an Mscaler in store so I guess my best bet is to go in and give it a go, especially since they also stock the empyreans and the tt2, which makes the auditioning process a whole lot easier.

I guess I have a ton of reading and auditioning ahead of me, and seeing how you put it, will definitely also look into an LPS and a conditioner in the near future and see what I come up with.

Thanks again for the help!

J

 

[OctavianH]

I guess I have a ton of reading and auditioning ahead of me, and seeing how you put it, will definitely also look into an LPS and a conditioner in the near future and see what I come up with.

I use here a cheap Furman like this one, available around 180 USD:
https://furmanpower.com/product/10a-two-outlet-power-conditioner-export/
Just check to buy the one appropriate for your country (240V/110V, and so on).
For me this small one with 2 outputs is enough (in your case TT2 + M-Scaler or Elise/Euforia depending on what you choose).

Now, regarding Elise, before you buy it check with your distributor, someone said here a few pages back that F. A. plans to release soon a refreshed model. Maybe it is better to wait and buy the new one, which will borrow some things from its bigger brother Euforia or maybe go directly to Euforia. If you can try both, you can see which one is better for you. Of course, if the improvements are only "several of the power supply refinements for quieter operation trickled down from the Euforia" you might be on the same road with the Furman.

 

[UntilThen]

I played a little bit more with these Psvane KT88TII and tried them with some GE 7581A.

The 7581/A tube is an industrial strength version of the 6L6GC which is also said to be the American equivalent to the British KT-66. The ratings 7581 are roughly the same as the 6L6GC while the 7581A has higher ratings. - from the virtual world that we call Internet.

Well I did learn about a new tube. Strange I didn't use my EH 6L6GC on the Elekit TU-8200 anymore. Telefunken EL12 spez is almost permanently seated there. I should plonk in the GEC KT66 sometime because it cost me $550 !

 

[OctavianH]

I am quite enjoying the Philips EL3N driving the Psvane KT88T2. I think I will continue to burn the KT88s with these. I am around 75 hours already.

 

[LoryWiv]

1. Regarding influence of M Scaler in my setup. For me, using only headphones and TT2 in DAC mode (I do not use the integrated headphone amplifier of TT2 - the AMP mode), when switching M Scaler from Passive mode to Full upscaling mode I hear only a marginal difference. It is there, you have a small idea of better definition and separation, but I would say around 10%. A bigger difference for me is to completely remove M Scaler from the circuit. Strange, I know. Might be related to my own setup, preferences and so on. It is hard to say. On M Scaler thread you see hundreds of pages of debates, and it is hard to draw a conclusion.

Another oversampling option is HQPlayer, and there is some comparison with results of this software versus MScaler here.

 

[Scutey]

I played a little bit more with these Psvane KT88TII and tried them with some GE 7581A.



When used with Euforia's stock drivers, the Psvane CV181T2, the sound goes towards a more analytical direction, somehow reminding me about SS amplifiers. Now, combined with these warmer drivers, the sound goes a little bit towards a "tubey" sound, but still it retains the precise and punchy bass from the previous combination. A nice combo, at least on Elise.
And if you want to go further, I have to say that Philips EL3N as drivers combined with these neutral and more analytical powers gives a very full bodied sound.



You are loosing some detail, but obtain a creamy and nice analogue sound. For classic rock this is quite good. I guess it is time for some Black Sabbath.

Good to hear you're enjoying those Psvanes, and that's a great idea to use the EL3N with them, think I will try mine with the Svetlana 6550C, as the Svet's are quite neutral, and analytical, oh and Isn't it always time for some Sabbath? .

 

[shafat777]

i have been comparing driver tubes for my Elise. I am using Gold Lion kt 88 as my power tubes. I have been using 1944 Sylvania Vt-231 for drivers for about 3 months. This is a really good combination with unmatched vocals and high frequency. The bass is a little conservative but very tight. For the last 2 weeks i swapped out those for a Gold Lion kt77 as drivers. These sound more holographic with wide soundstage. The best/most definite feature of these tubes are the mid bass. Its deep and very textured. The vocals have a 3d effect with them but the treble is tamed. NOt as airy, sounds a little thicker. I have a pair of Ge7581a tubes coming in the mail and then i ll use those as drivers too.

I was thinking about running my vt231 with the KT77 as powers. Does anyone have any experience using kt77 gold lion as power tubes in Elise?