[Scutey]

2359....

Read some old post here and there, u'll find history repeats.

Ok, @attmci, I'll have a look, always interested to see what others have said

 

[canthearyou]

I'm still very much enjoying the 5998a/cv181 combo. These will be in this amp as long as I own it. I am so pleased with the Elise that if I do sell it for a different amp, it would be something approaching summit-fi. Which for me is 5k and up. Possibly the new unknown F.A. amp.

 

[hypnos1]

I'm still very much enjoying the 5998a/cv181 combo. These will be in this amp as long as I own it. I am so pleased with the Elise that if I do sell it for a different amp, it would be something approaching summit-fi. Which for me is 5k and up. Possibly the new unknown F.A. amp.

As others are finding out(!), F-A's amps sound good no matter almost what tubes are used - but this can sometimes have you going around in circles!!

Like me, you sound interested as to what F-A have in store...hopefully at a price that will seriously compete (at an attractive price!) with what has recently appeared on the market. Am still awaiting progress of same, but if much like the early impressions, it does indeed look very interesting...will keep you all informed...CJ

 

[attmci]

Deleted.

 

[OctavianH]

You guys should go to the other active threads.
Those guys love FA amp to death before all think it's a piece of junk Schiit now.

Since I think your post was addressed to me, I will answer. I understood your complaint and I will try to post more "informative" stuff. In this way I hope you will not send me to the "other active threads" and the history will not repeat itself.
I am a new Elise owner, received my amp on 20.02, and this is the reason behind my enthusiasm and the number of posts I make for the same tube pair, which somehow are in contradiction because some of them are NOS and still evolving.

Regarding Elise, I am enjoying it and I think it is a good amp even for the new price point. Many users here own the first version and their price/performance ratio is much higher.
When buying it I had to choose between WA6SE and Elise 2018, both at the same price. The decision was made based on the community feedback and the tube rolling options because unfortunately, where I live I cannot find a decent audio shop to try. So I really needed advice and a helping community.

 

[attmci]

Deleted.

 

[OctavianH]

Regarding upgrades and very expensive toys I have to say one thing: we always have to think straight and make a good difference between a technical upgrade and marketing. Why I am saying this? I do not have a vast experience on tube amps, I started this hobby 2-3 years ago only because I had that nostalgia related to the old analogue sound I had on my old tapes, while living in my parents house. BUT I have a quite good experience on gaming rigs because I am a gamer spending thousands of EUR on PC components for almost 20 years. And what is happening in the gaming world is somehow similar with audio equipment. I will explain. When we started to build gaming rigs many years ago we made this because of a huge passion for IT and computing. This "science" was at that time at the beginning and people were more enthusiastic than nowadays. But years passed and the prices increased a lot, and technology remained somewhere behind the desire and need for new. So now Intel is releasing yearly a 5% more efficient CPU, NVIDIA is increasing prices based on Bitcoin miners demand and so on. It is capitalism, people make money because they can, but forgot to innovate. We have tempered glass cases, RGB leds everywhere and we fight for 1 FPS more than on the rig of the neighbor but we forgot to enjoy a good game and to feel that team work we had in 90s when playing an online game. Now we fight for achievements and make shinny pictures of our gaming rigs.

I made this analogy to prepare my question: How much is "pride" compared to sonic improvement on a 5000$ amp? Because a 5000$ amp requires a complete "line" of components priced a the same range to benefit from it and we reach somewhere to 20K $ or more. I am convinced there is a difference, but I have to say you might experience it on 5% of your recordings which are produced at the quality needed to make difference.

What I have learned from PC world:
It really makes sense to spend for what you love, but lately, since marketing won over innovation, the middle way is the best for everyone. So I have not made a 1080Ti SLI but decided to go on the 1070 SLI and a better monitor. I remained on DDR3 and kept my old 4790K which overclocked at 4.5GGHz works perfectly for me.
On audio I guess Elise with good tubes is my best choice now, and maybe in the future (2-3 years) Euforia will be an improvement, IF F.A. will keep a decent price range and keep the same tube types to be able to use my existing collection. In the meantime I can learn about tubes and find out if that Cross Feed is really important and helps somehow.
For me an amp of 3000-5000 EUR is not an option because I feel that in the end we spend more and more because of scientific reasons and forget to enjoy listening a good song with a good beer in hand. BUT time is the only one who can tell me how wrong I am in this moment, or not

These were my 2 cents regarding upgrades, and excuse my analogy with an "off topic" area.

 

[mordy]

Regarding upgrades and very expensive toys I have to say one thing: we always have to think straight and make a good difference between a technical upgrade and marketing. Why I am saying this? I do not have a vast experience on tube amps, I started this hobby 2-3 years ago only because I had that nostalgia related to the old analogue sound I had on my old tapes, while living in my parents house. BUT I have a quite good experience on gaming rigs because I am a gamer spending thousands of EUR on PC components for almost 20 years. And what is happening in the gaming world is somehow similar with audio equipment. I will explain. When we started to build gaming rigs many years ago we made this because of a huge passion for IT and computing. This "science" was at that time at the beginning and people were more enthusiastic than nowadays. But years passed and the prices increased a lot, and technology remained somewhere behind the desire and need for new. So now Intel is releasing yearly a 5% more efficient CPU, NVIDIA is increasing prices based on Bitcoin miners demand and so on. It is capitalism, people make money because they can, but forgot to innovate. We have tempered glass cases, RGB leds everywhere and we fight for 1 FPS more than on the rig of the neighbor but we forgot to enjoy a good game and to feel that team work we had in 90s when playing an online game. Now we fight for achievements and make shinny pictures of our gaming rigs.

I made this analogy to prepare my question: How much is "pride" compared to sonic improvement on a 5000$ amp? Because a 5000$ amp requires a complete "line" of components priced a the same range to benefit from it and we reach somewhere to 20K $ or more. I am convinced there is a difference, but I have to say you might experience it on 5% of your recordings which are produced at the quality needed to make difference.

What I have learned from PC world:
It really makes sense to spend for what you love, but lately, since marketing won over innovation, the middle way is the best for everyone. So I have not made a 1080Ti SLI but decided to go on the 1070 SLI and a better monitor. I remained on DDR3 and kept my old 4790K which overclocked at 4.5GGHz works perfectly for me.
On audio I guess Elise with good tubes is my best choice now, and maybe in the future (2-3 years) Euforia will be an improvement, IF F.A. will keep a decent price range and keep the same tube types to be able to use my existing collection. In the meantime I can learn about tubes and find out if that Cross Feed is really important and helps somehow.
For me an amp of 3000-5000 EUR is not an option because I feel that in the end we spend more and more because of scientific reasons and forget to enjoy listening a good song with a good beer in hand. BUT time is the only one who can tell me how wrong I am in this moment, or not

These were my 2 cents regarding upgrades, and excuse my analogy with an "off topic" area.

Hi O,

Like everything else today, there is a lot of marketing hype. IMHO price is not always an indicator of performance. Somebody who is a high end salesman stated that you cannot sell a really expensive tube amp unless it has a lot of tube glow, never mind if there are tubes that sound better but do not display so much fireworks.
I also think that FA has priced themselves out of their market level - time will tell.
There are tube amps that have stellar performance and that compare very favorably to $5000 amps for less than a third of the price. And there are actually people who have compared these amps to each other, including the Elise/Euforia.

 

[Scutey]

Regarding upgrades and very expensive toys I have to say one thing: we always have to think straight and make a good difference between a technical upgrade and marketing. Why I am saying this? I do not have a vast experience on tube amps, I started this hobby 2-3 years ago only because I had that nostalgia related to the old analogue sound I had on my old tapes, while living in my parents house. BUT I have a quite good experience on gaming rigs because I am a gamer spending thousands of EUR on PC components for almost 20 years. And what is happening in the gaming world is somehow similar with audio equipment. I will explain. When we started to build gaming rigs many years ago we made this because of a huge passion for IT and computing. This "science" was at that time at the beginning and people were more enthusiastic than nowadays. But years passed and the prices increased a lot, and technology remained somewhere behind the desire and need for new. So now Intel is releasing yearly a 5% more efficient CPU, NVIDIA is increasing prices based on Bitcoin miners demand and so on. It is capitalism, people make money because they can, but forgot to innovate. We have tempered glass cases, RGB leds everywhere and we fight for 1 FPS more than on the rig of the neighbor but we forgot to enjoy a good game and to feel that team work we had in 90s when playing an online game. Now we fight for achievements and make shinny pictures of our gaming rigs.

I made this analogy to prepare my question: How much is "pride" compared to sonic improvement on a 5000$ amp? Because a 5000$ amp requires a complete "line" of components priced a the same range to benefit from it and we reach somewhere to 20K $ or more. I am convinced there is a difference, but I have to say you might experience it on 5% of your recordings which are produced at the quality needed to make difference.

What I have learned from PC world:
It really makes sense to spend for what you love, but lately, since marketing won over innovation, the middle way is the best for everyone. So I have not made a 1080Ti SLI but decided to go on the 1070 SLI and a better monitor. I remained on DDR3 and kept my old 4790K which overclocked at 4.5GGHz works perfectly for me.
On audio I guess Elise with good tubes is my best choice now, and maybe in the future (2-3 years) Euforia will be an improvement, IF F.A. will keep a decent price range and keep the same tube types to be able to use my existing collection. In the meantime I can learn about tubes and find out if that Cross Feed is really important and helps somehow.
For me an amp of 3000-5000 EUR is not an option because I feel that in the end we spend more and more because of scientific reasons and forget to enjoy listening a good song with a good beer in hand. BUT time is the only one who can tell me how wrong I am in this moment, or not

These were my 2 cents regarding upgrades, and excuse my analogy with an "off topic" area.

Well said OH. With my last tube purchase, the Psavanes, was probably my last big buy for the Elise, unless I find a great deal on a pair of GEC 6as7g, or 6080, which I doubt will happen!, for now with the Elise I'm not chasing for the ultimate sound as with just a few tubes I have now found a sound(s) that I'm really happy with, so for now, like you, it's enjoying the music, and sometimes with a beer!

 

[DavidA]

@OctavianH, I like your analogy to the gaming world of custom builds and agree that there very little innovation these days but prices just keep going up due to marketing.

 

[myphone]

• Good tubes could still be found for reasonable prices, even though is getting much rarer, mostly from non-audiophiles it experienced sellers. I have taken a few chances in the past months on untested tubes, these highly sought after ones, 421A (pair), 5998 (lot of 5), Tekeunken EL12sp, Tekeunken ECC801s, Amperex 7316 at much lower prices I have seen in years. All turned out NIB or NOS. EL 12sp is still pending. I have been playing tubes for 20 years. Sometime from tube dealer, got six matched NIB Mullard 6080WA for less than half of the going rate (rate went up after purchase, running special?). Patience, gut feeling and risk-taking sometime pay off.

 

[myphone]

For drivers, I have a regulated 12v power supply, 12SN7 family tubes are much cheaper than the 6v siblings.

 

[OctavianH]

Well said OH. With my last tube purchase, the Psavanes, was probably my last big buy for the Elise, unless I find a great deal on a pair of GEC 6as7g, or 6080, which I doubt will happen!, for now with the Elise I'm not chasing for the ultimate sound as with just a few tubes I have now found a sound(s) that I'm really happy with, so for now, like you, it's enjoying the music, and sometimes with a beer!

GEC 6AS7G are very hard to find, but I found these in Sweden:
https://www.ebay.de/itm/GEC-6AS7G-A...331833?hash=item285423eab9:g:Yh0AAOSw4ltapTqp
This is a guy who sells 2 pairs, but the price of 485EUR is too high for me to convince me to make this purchase.

 

[Scutey]

Yes I saw them too, and like you, that is just too high a price, as much as I would like to try them, one day I'm hoping I might see a pair less than £100, well I can dream!.

 

[myphone]

Ok, so back on track. My Tung Sol 5998 arrived today:

They are manufactured sometime in '53 and my impressions is that they are detailed but somehow laid back. But they might not be burned in since the previous owner told me he used them only 10hrs with WA2.

So now the listening sessions start and what better source can I have than the latest Judas Priest album:

We will see in the next days if I will consider them my end game or the searching will continue. At this moment I miss some highs here.
But the mids are decent and the bass is precise and somehow puchy.

And a question:

What is the difference between Tung Sol 5998 white label vs green label?

5998 manufactured before 1957 were structurally different from later dates.

green label, I believe, was made in 1960's.