[sling5s]

I just received a new Elise. Are these stock tubes burned in already? If not, are the improvements big or slight with burn in on these tubes. 
So far, of course, the ZOTL2-S sounds much more cleaner, clear, detailed and 3D (especially in depth). 
The Elise sounds veiled in comparison. But again, these tubes have not burned in.

 

[Spork67]

I found my Elise, with the stock tubes, needed 30 - 40 hours to start to shine. I'm not sure if it was just the tubes burning in, or a combination of tubes and amp the other amp. components burning in.
With "better" tubes it got better again, and most of those better tubes improved further with burn in - length required varied.
 
For better soundstage and detail the EL3N as drivers are hard to beat, especially teamed with some TS 5998 powers, or with 4 more EL3N's as powers (all EL3N's will need adapters, and using 4 as drivers is not, to me, visually pleasing).
 
Others have tried a lot more tubes than I have - I currently am very happy with what I have.

 

[DecentLevi]

My friend Stavros (@rosgr63 - the one who I've bought the recent treasure troves of genuine / rare mint condition power + driver tubes) has 19 more Bendix 6080 NIB/NOS tubes!!!  He has several types, including the astounding slotted graphite / carbon plate ones I mentioned yesterday in this post. Here are some of his actual photos of them:
  
 
(the two on the right are still available, and the two on the left are the ones I got)
 
Anyone interested, just click on the username mentioned above to send him a PM. IMO, these Bendix outdo the GEC 6AS7G's in some ways. If you want a good price, just ask nicely

 and delivery took only 3 days from Greece.
 
He also has a treasure chest of 10 more rare / mint condition GEC / Osram / Marconi brown straight and curved base 6AS7G / 1834's, as well as many other gem tubes... just ask and I will post his complete list of available tubes.
 
* I am doing this only out of respect for his excellent service, not for any profit whatsoever

 

[connieflyer]

Found a back-up for my Raytheon 6080 carbon plates.  Just happened to be from the same seller as the first two. For $20 plus $6.oo shipping it will give me plenty of back-up and a lot of listening pleasure. Thanks again to @UntilThen  for giving me the heads up on these great tubes.

 

[connieflyer]

How do these tubes differ from 6080's?    http://www.ebay.com/itm/351901942615?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

 

[HOWIE13]

  How do these tubes differ from 6080's?    http://www.ebay.com/itm/351901942615?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

 
6336 has 4.5A heater current, 6528 has 5A. 6080 is 2.5A. Don't use a pair of 6336 or 6528 in Elise.

 

[DecentLevi]

I was also eyeing a pair of 6336 tubes, but as has been mentioned before here those are not compatible with the Elise, using 5 amps.
 
Also for anyone interested in getting tubes from the above mentioned member rosgr63, he gave me unbeatable prices and also tests the tubes on 1-2 fine machines and can even show you high quality photos of the tubes in the tester. I did two bulk orders from him (one for power and one for driver tubes), and he even gave me free shipping and threw in a couple pairs of perfect condition tubes! Anyone let me know if you want me to post the full list he has available.

 

[connieflyer]

   
6336 has 4.5A heater current, 6528 has 5A. 6080 is 2.5A. Don't use a pair of 6336 or 6528 in Elise.

Thanks Howie

 

[Oskari]

Anyway, yesterday a package arrived from Mrs X and I got my first opportunity to try'12V' drivers, my lovely Tungsram E80CC's, in Elise. I put 12V in inverted commas as until the recent posts on this topic I didn't realise that some tubes, conventionally regarded as having 12V heaters, could also work with 6V, using an appropriate adapter.

That convention seems to be prevalent in the Garage1217 threads, which is no wonder since that's what the amp maker calls those tubes. Potentially quite deceptive if you ask me.

It is worth noting that the letter E in ECC81/12AT7 tells us that the tube has a 6V heater. Together the Euro and US type codes reveal that both 6V and 12V are possible.

 

[mordy]

Hi DL,
 
Dug out my box of 6DJ8 family tubes:
 
6DJ8/ECC88 Amperex
6BC8
6BZ8/X155
6BS8
6BQ7
6N23P
 
With my previous amp the 1974 Russian Voskhod 6N23P sounded the best. I tried them now with a four-pack of the EL3N. The sound is beautiful, sweet and detailed; dynamic and quick, but a little light in the bass.
 
Another con is a hum, not audible with music playing, but it is there.
 

 
 
Next I tried a pair of GE 6CG7 - wider sound stage and also very nice with the four-pack, but the same issues with bass and hum. And too bright in my system.
 
Nice, but I miss the glorious mid bass from my EL3N/RCA 6080 combo. YMMV....
 
BTW, could u imagine a company coming up with the designation 6BS8 today?

 

[2359glenn]

 

Anyway, yesterday a package arrived from Mrs X and I got my first opportunity to try'12V' drivers, my lovely Tungsram E80CC's, in Elise. I put 12V in inverted commas as until the recent posts on this topic I didn't realise that some tubes, conventionally regarded as having 12V heaters, could also work with 6V, using an appropriate adapter.

That convention seems to be prevalent in the Garage1217 threads, which is no wonder since that's what the amp maker calls those tubes. Potentially quite deceptive if you ask me.

It is worth noting that the letter E in ECC81/12AT7 tells us that the tube has a 6V heater. Together the Euro and US type codes reveal that both 6V and 12V are possible.

These tubes are basically two 6 volt tubes in series making 12 volts. If the heater is wired in series it works at 12 volts. if wired in parallel it is 6 volts.
The heater is center taped to pin 9 and the heater is pins 4&5 so you can feed 12 volts into 4&5. to run on 6 volts tie 4&5 together and feed the 6 volts
to 9 and the tied together 4&5.

 

[DecentLevi]

  Hi DL,
 
Dug out my box of 6DJ8 family tubes:
 
6DJ8/ECC88 Amperex
6BC8
6BZ8/X155
6BS8
6BQ7
6N23P
 
With my previous amp the 1974 Russian Voskhod 6N23P sounded the best. I tried them now with a four-pack of the EL3N. The sound is beautiful, sweet and detailed; dynamic and quick, but a little light in the bass.
 
Another con is a hum, not audible with music playing, but it is there...

Well then, let the competition begin to see who can find the best miniatuere pairing with those qual EL3N's

- for me, my 'secret combo' is the Tesla ECC88 + quad EL3N. It turns what was a flabby / slow dark sound with larger driver tubes, to being a mile better than every other combo I've tried including the bottle shaped GEC's... Absolute splendid resolution unfolding itself right in front of you... with my primary descriptor as nothing other than TRANSFORMATIONAL... yet the search continues to find another miniature tube with somewhat better bass definition and less hummm

 

[mordy]

Hmm, did u say hum?
 
For some reason, all the 6DJ8 family tubes that I have hum in my amp.
 
If you like the sound, you may want to consider the 6N23P tube - easily available and inexpensive. Some people think that the mid 70's Voskhod tubes are the best.

 

[DecentLevi]

So after trying the Western Electric 421A, Chatham 2399 and Tung Sol 5998 (all 5998 class with similar shape / internals), each with most of the following pairs of driver tubes (except when deemed redundant):
 
- Sylvania 6SN7 3 hole Bad Boys
- Sylvania 6SN7W Short Bottle

- National Union CNU 6SN7 smoked glass
- RCA 6FQ7
- Tesla ECC88
 
The result was overwhelmingly in favor of the Tung Sol 5998 + Tesla ECC88 combo, with TS 5998 + NU smoked glass in 2nd place for a more laid back sound

 
The sound is fast, crisp, dynamic, clear with fantastic bass definition and great soundstage. All 6SN7 pairings with the 421A and Chatham drivers sounded too veiled / back row, and the RCA 6FQ7 sounded too thin / sweet with all powers. Howie was definitely onto something with his mention of the likes of miniature Tesla ECC88 drivers paired with the TS 5998 powers. The sound is fleshed-out in a good way, full of inner detail, intimacy and realism - and the above mentioned bass definition and hum are fixed here to the 'tune' of 90%. These mini drivers not only have potential with the quad EL3N power setup, but also perform first-class with the likes of TS 5998 powers.
 
Going back to the Tesla ECC88 + quad EL3N right after a listen to the above, I'm getting a sound that's at least 40% more "deep into the scene" with more apparent layers, more lifelike soundstage, but notably darker and slower. Both are fantastic with rock / jazz / analogue-ish recordings and simultaneously quite grandiose with electronic music as well... any genre really because they are so immaculately resolving / refined in all ways. Each of these have their own strengths

 

[DecentLevi]

  I just received a new Elise. Are these stock tubes burned in already? If not, are the improvements big or slight with burn in on these tubes. 
So far, of course, the ZOTL2-S sounds much more cleaner, clear, detailed and 3D (especially in depth). 
The Elise sounds veiled in comparison. But again, these tubes have not burned in.

With you in mind, I've just done an A/B comparison of the stock 6H13C power tubes to my slotted graphite plate Bendix 6080 (shown above in this post); both using the 'bad boys' 6SN7 driver tubes. The differences I noticed were that the Bendix had more hi-fi sounding bass (faster / better definition and not bloated), had better layering and 3D lifelike-ness. Granted I've recently noted preference for other powers, but it just comes down to which flavor you prefer; in terms of soundstage, charactor, etc. Generally these Bendix's do nothing wrong with any genre, and I would be satisfied with them as my only power tubes. IMHO, these are a bit of a paradoxical tube, being some decades old, yet looking very futuristic and having a sound quality that will never be obsolete. I strongly recommend getting these as your first power tubes. And if going with my lead from Stavros listed above, he may be able to give you a price you can't find anywhere else, and they test over 100%.