[Mau10]

The stock input tubes aren't great. If you haven't it will lead to significant improvements in the sound. That being said. If you tube rolled already then the Sparkos is an impressive amp. Always wanted to get it.

Totally agree, the Echo MkII sounds really good with the stock tubes, but that is just a taste of what the Echo can do when using good NOS.
It's good that Feliks Audio chose "decent" tubes to include in the stock Echo, that kept the price low and allow the user to decide what to do for tube rolling.
Some of this suitable NOS tubes, sell for a significant percentage of the total cost of the unit, however, to my ears the difference can be night and day.
One of the least expensive options are the Phillips/sylvania's 6922, (much better than the included tubes)
If you are looking for better transparency, dynamics, tonal balance and slam. (6922 Tungsrams and Amperex are excellent).
Amperex 7308's have been mentioned in the threads as some of the best sounding tubes for the Echo, but I haven't tried them unfortunately.
Even though the stock power tubes are not a problem at all, A member from this thread recommended me the "Foton 6n6p" to add warmth with no transparency loss, and if you like that sound, they work well.

 

[roderickvd]

Thanks guys. I already have a great SS amp which is exactly why I’m going for an OTL, something different. I owned a TA-20 hybrid before and did not care for it even after rolling some tubes.

Tube availability is a good criterion. Should be good for both the Echo and the TA-26 I think?

The caps on the TA-26 can’t be upgraded because there is no room in the chassis. Would be great if someone had a picture of the Echo’s innards to share!

 

[Leonarfd]

Anyone tried the more modern TAD-6922?

 

[Leonarfd]

About to order a violin for the wife and the TAD-6922 is in stock on the same site. Got bummed on the last pair tubes I bought dying after 20 hours usage.

 

[Deleeh]

The Tads are Chinese Shuang tubes, unfortunately.
So nothing special, unfortunately.
They are made by the German manufacturer according to their specifications, but unfortunately there is nothing more to it.

There are better ones on the new stock market than the Tad.

For me, the issue of tube availability has also become more important as an Euforia owner.
There are some tubes that are good but no longer available, sold at inflated prices when they are available.

That can hurt sometimes, unfortunately, but otherwise a very good amplifier.

I would stay away from Chinese amplifiers like Xudoo Darkvoice.
The electrical side is very questionable and also not of particular quality.

 

[Mau10]

Thanks guys. I already have a great SS amp which is exactly why I’m going for an OTL, something different. I owned a TA-20 hybrid before and did not care for it even after rolling some tubes.

Tube availability is a good criterion. Should be good for both the Echo and the TA-26 I think?

The caps on the TA-26 can’t be upgraded because there is no room in the chassis. Would be great if someone had a picture of the Echo’s innards to share!

Unfortunately I have no idea about the caps used on the Echo, nevertheless I wouldn't bother to change them since the Echo performs well above it's pricetag when using NOS. Friendly advice, if you are interested in an Echo, give it a try with good tubes, and then if you feel that something is missing, walk the path of cap upgrade. I believe that many audiophiles (including myself), have had at some point a wrong bias/lesser expectations due to the low price of the Echo. To my ears, as a long term user, the only trade off regarding the pricepoint of the echo were the input tubes.
https://www.tubemonger.com/Tungsram_E88CC_6922_NOS_NOV_1979_MILITARY_HUNGARY_p/1094.htm

The tubes of the link are a treat on the Echo at a very acceptable price. There are some more expensive 68's in the same site, I have a pair of both and the difference is minimal. (Those are true nos, and need at least 50 hrs of burn in)

 

[roderickvd]

Thanks again for your recommendations.

Just want to leave here that I owned and modded an Xduoo TA-20 before and that was very well built electrically. Certainly better than an Icon HP8 for example which is three times the price and a margin that must be incredible, because the design is really basic and the components of OK quality — nothing more.

That’s why I’m also interested to see what the Echo is made of internally.

 

[r343]

Thanks again for your recommendations.

Just want to leave here that I owned and modded an Xduoo TA-20 before and that was very well built electrically. Certainly better than an Icon HP8 for example which is three times the price and a margin that must be incredible, because the design is really basic and the components of OK quality — nothing more.

That’s why I’m also interested to see what the Echo is made of internally.

Had TA-20 too before, my problem with TA-20 was that it sounded literally same as solid state amp, it was almost impossible to tell it apart from such.
With big maybe there was slight softening in treble but i am not sure.

Echo Mk2 is definitely different sound.

 

[roderickvd]

Could not agree more. No more hybrids for me.

 

[Deleeh]

Hybrid amplifiers should not be compared with otl or transformer coupled or similar, these are 2 different types of amplifiers.
3 if you count SS.

The hybrid amplifiers are 50:50 SS and tubes roughly speaking and there are good ones that work wonderfully with planar headphones or the ideal amplification is for planar headphones.

On my Euforia amplifier with the Lcd 2 versus my hybrid amplifier I notice clear differences tonally.
The bass effect on the hybrid amplifier is clearly more present than on the Euforia.
On the other hand, the midrange and treble end is clearly better on the Euforia.
When hybrid amplifiers are well tuned, planar headphones are usually a corner ahead of dynamic headphones.

I suspect that the Echo will have 2 Mundorf capacitors.
You can certainly replace them with Vcaps CuTf or Odam's.
The Euforia was also equipped with standard Mundorf capacitors and I replaced them with TFTF on the 6SN7 socket and Odam on the 6as7g.

 

[Rayon]

Hybrid amplifiers should not be compared with otl or transformer coupled or similar, these are 2 different types of amplifiers.

I agree 100%. And then! Tube amps further divide into SET (Single Ended Triode) vs Push Pull.

Some info:
https://www.x3mhc.no/dokumenter/SE-v-PP-Part1.pdf
https://www.x3mhc.no/dokumenter/SE-v-PP-Part2.pdf

 

[blackdragon87]

i have a gen 1 and i cant find the answer in the manual. is it best to turn on the amp and wait a few minutes for the amp and tubes to warm up before plugging in the headphones in

thank you

 

[Mau10]

i have a gen 1 and i cant find the answer in the manual. is it best to turn on the amp and wait a few minutes for the amp and tubes to warm up before plugging in the headphones in

thank you

In my experience... From the device longevity or functional standpoint, you should't be concerned. If you turn the unit "on" with the headphones connected, you will notice all the clicks and cracks that the tubes produce while warming up, and also as you may know, you can notice the increase of the volume as the tube heaters come alive. However, subjectively the Echo will start to sound "right" after about 5 mins of warming up at least. That being said, you should never leave a a cable connected to a headphone amp if that cable in turn is not connected to a headphone; that applies if you are starting your unit or in regular usage. If you are switching headphones while using the same cable, always unplug the amp end of the cable (1/4 TRS) before disconnecting the headphones end.

 

[MacMan31]

Okay so I have tube adapter for 12Axx to ECC88 tubes. Can I use any 12Axx type tube with the adapter in the Echo Mk2?

 

[Rayon]

The stock input tubes aren't great. If you haven't it will lead to significant improvements in the sound. That being said. If you tube rolled already then the Sparkos is an impressive amp. Always wanted to get it.

Just to double check: people talk about bad "input tubes". Are input tubes == driver tubes? Also what would be the best currently produced option for a replace? I generally tend to prefer current production over NOS (firstly I don't want to fall in love with something that may be hard to get in future and secondly I want to support tube producers).

EDIT: Confident enough to proceed, will try these as my first tube roll ever

https://www.jjtubes.eu/e88cc-6922-gold

It got quite good reviews here: https://www.thetubestore.com/jj-e88cc-6922-gold