Feature A New Chip! FiiO Portable HiFi Music Player M11 Plus Is Officially Released!
Jan 21, 2022 at 11:17 PM Post #16 of 79
It could be just me, but when MQA is promoted as a feature in the first 50 words of a product introduction, my interest immediately drops to zero. Don't need to learn any more, my exploration & interest is concluded. Movin' on ...
 
Jan 22, 2022 at 12:26 AM Post #17 of 79
there
It could be just me, but when MQA is promoted as a feature in the first 50 words of a product introduction, my interest immediately drops to zero. Don't need to learn any more, my exploration & interest is concluded. Movin' on ...
is actually a thread on these sorts of things, active at the moment.
Not relating to FiiO, but being a consumer, and an ‘audio market’ consumer.

There has been some great ‘red flag’ mentions: words that ’when we read them’ we kinda disconnect.
I’m with you on this one- I had a policy to ‘not buy MQA supporting tech’ for quite a while, but that would have meant NOT OWNING an iFi part I actually wanted.

I wasn’t going to let MQA get in the way of getting myself one of these outstanding FiiO DAPs, so I’d agree to disagree with your direction of ‘moving on’ from one of these parts...
but yeah- if it is one of the first major bullet points to sell the product, then we have to wonder if we are not just being sold ‘flavour of the moment’ (consumer demanded) technology or rather somehting designed with love and attention to actually sound great.

Fortunately the FiiO DAPs have been ever evolving from well before MQA was a concept.

Now- if anything says ‘HDCD’, THEN I ACTUALLY DO CLIMB OVER BROKEN GLASS TO TRY AND BUY.
Alas HDCD is so ‘yesteryear’ even though it could have given to the entire audio market ACTUAL USABLE HiRes audio and it was of benefit to EVERYONE! (even non HDCD/pacific macrosonics PMD100 chip equiped equipment)
 
Jan 22, 2022 at 10:24 AM Post #18 of 79
I wasn’t going to let MQA get in the way of getting myself one of these outstanding FiiO DAPs, so I’d agree to disagree with your direction of ‘moving on’ from one of these parts...
but yeah- if it is one of the first major bullet points to sell the product, then we have to wonder if we are not just being sold ‘flavour of the moment’ (consumer demanded) technology or rather somehting designed with love and attention to actually sound great.
I've avoided MQA as well, but only because of my preferences for players and receivers that didn't feature it, not due to actual avoidance. I'm also someone that never streams music or downloads it, only using CDs as my source. I've been a FLAC person from day one, so by default I'm a proponent of open source.
 
Jan 22, 2022 at 6:30 PM Post #19 of 79
you guys/gals do know you don't have to play back MQA files even if the hardware supports it.... isn't that like saying you won't buy a TV that plays back Off the Air vs Cable...
 
Jan 22, 2022 at 7:17 PM Post #20 of 79
I've avoided MQA as well, but only because of my preferences for players and receivers that didn't feature it, not due to actual avoidance. I'm also someone that never streams music or downloads it, only using CDs as my source. I've been a FLAC person from day one, so by default I'm a proponent of open source.
Seems we have a few parallels at play.
Given the whole market seems to be moving to ‘much higher powered’(CPU) controller chips, the task of unfolding the MQA stream is made super easy by chips that many devices will already feature. (at some point it must seem mad to not include MQA support, as it will up the sale rate of the product to ‘some users’, many of them quite vocal for the feature).

My bugbear with MQA is regarding the ethics attached to the marketing of it, and having seen a few ways in which it was hoodwinked into the market, and ‘tricks‘ used to fool early professional reviewers to say ‘nice things’ about it...

The reality is it strips music back to effectively 13bit sound for the ‘have nots’, based on the tech articles I have read on it -that go BEAUTIFULLY IN DEPTH, and have been written independantly by a range of equipment journos and ‘industry professionals’. (there isn’t a collaboration to denounce it in their combined efforts, they are all just ‘sharing their findings’)

Now whilst we all might argue whether a cable makes a difference or whether 320kbps (compressed formats) is ‘transparent’, it doesn’t take a blind man to realise the sound quality drop that a 13bit ‘final product’ equates too: most people can hear ‘non MQA’ decoded sound as inferior. (and this is why many are against MQA as it creates a market of ‘have nots’ for people who won’t ‘pay the piper’)
It looks like the tech was to enforce itself into the market (once partly adopted), and leave those unwilling to buy the patent tech as ‘have nots’ (who want the old sound they used to have(or better)), and whatever academic improvements it brings, and the premise of lowering internet bandwidth use (-=sarcasm=- a noble goal I am sure-=/sarcasm=-), isn’t enough to segregate the market and enforce a whole new demographic of hardware sales... (does it feature MQA? I NEED IT TO FEATURE MQA!!)

As an example of a tech evolution that did pretty much the exact opposite (whilst delivering better for everyone), was HDCD.
HDCD required the source file to be processed, sure... but once HDCD encoded, all playback kit (with and without HDCDs “PMD100/PMD200” chips) would have a better experience for it.

I bought the DVD A and SACD koolaids. (Minidisc and other failed formats too)
HDCD recordings are still many of the best I have ever heard.
I would part argue that this was due to incredible engineering and a ‘chicken and egg’ philosophy; early adopters (artists/engineers) to HDCD probably did so due to caring about ultimate fidelity and sound quality. Their next albums would have still been engineered to ‘a very high quality level’, of this I have no doubt.

The difference with HDCD technology, was that ‘non HDCD’ players still got their normal level of fidelity, or better, when playing back HDCD encoded media.
HDCD players I believe may have (but don’t quote me on this) also benefitted non HDCD discs by using the improved digital filter.
HDCD as an encoding process could have also given to ‘future formats’ (it wasn’t tied to a media type),

I have a very large collection of HDCDs. A few of them I can honestly say I have never listened too.
Much like MQA makes people WANT to try one service over another (if they have the playback kit), HDCD was a bit like that as well (always on the lookout for discs that have the ‘logo’);

in fact I recall the day when a friend and I had gone shopping in the wee hours of the day (we were both on the ‘late shift’ at the same workplace), and as we walked past a record store, a display for the new Tool album at the time (Lateralus), was just being walked out the front. Tool was one of my mates favorite bands, I knew this because I had borrowed their entire media catalogue and Tool had the most discs- many ‘b’sides and singles...
“hey - isnt’ that the new....” (he had already looked at his watch/figured out this was ‘the day’, and we were inside the shop and throwing money at the man behind the counter. (okay it may have been a woman, and it may have been a bankcard,..)).
Anyhow- shopping trip cancelled, we were off to my place (I had the better hifi rig, and my only neighbour was a government building)(we would be able to ‘play it loud’!);
We get home -I fire up all the respective bits and pieces, disc in tray, about to hit play: my friend spots the HDCD logo in the liner notes that came with the disc -“hey isn’t this...”
WE BOTH COULDN’T BELIEVE OUR LUCK:
up to this point in HDCDs ‘coming to market’ it was a lot of Neil Diamond and ‘high quality’ respectable recordings. (of which my favorites were Supertramps‘ “some things never change” and “city of angels” (soundtrack)).
To get some actual music that we would listen to (I love Aenema, the album before Lateralus), was a gift.

The problem?
well I know I advocate “I’d rather listen to good music through an average stereo than poor recordings through a good stereo”, but in this instance, we knew that the maiden play of this new ‘never before experienced’ (by ‘us’ at least) HDCD album was going to be epic; but that my HDCD CD player was ‘in the shop’.

Two months earlier I had bought a Rotel RCD-971 CD player. This was the end of a long road of buying and returning CD players (to the same store, the first three or so were all from the ‘second hand/trade in’ pile they had). I had been on an upgrade path for my front end disc spinner and they all sounded so ‘meh’. (a sound effect dismissing the previous statement to being average or ‘unexciting’). They all sounded ‘average’ or ‘the same’ (more or less) until I upped my budget and bought the Rotel RCD-951 (the first ‘new player’ I could see excellent value in)
The RCD 951 didn’t have the torroidal power supply of its’ bigger brother (if I recall correctly), it featured ONE 18bit DAC chip, and could play back HDCD (a 20 bit format).
The price jump to the next one up the ladder, importantly to my mind- gave two 20bit capable DAC chips (in a dual differential arrangement) and this made sound sense to my academic belief ‘to have 20bit DAC chips’ to pass on a ‘20bit sound format’ (the torroidal and the second DAC chip being icing on the cake that had me return the RCD951 after a week of auditioning (it was a great player in the late nineties)).
The new RCD971 skipped disc tracks ‘sometimes’. It was sick. It needed to go back to the store. So I took it back- described the ‘intermittent fault’ and ‘left it with them’. “Friday” they said.

Next Friday was ‘my day off’ (brilliant). Friday mid morning I go to pick up my ‘fixed’ player (the hifi store had a dedicated service section).
“we meant ‘next friday’ “ (no you didn’t!!)
Friday two weeks later, I go in, on business open, to collect my player.
“nothing wrong with it” they tell me.
I go to length to re explain how the player would jump around whilst tracking discs, but that the problem was intermittent (and the Sherlocks at home who may be thinking I had the thing resting on a high powered speaker and that the bass notes were making my discs skip- No- just “No” (my players rested on half cut squash balls and were ‘well isolated’ from the audio space (and the skipping would happen when listening with headphones too)).
They keep it ‘another week’.
Friday rolls around again.. I go in to collect it- a different tech states they couldn’t find ‘anything wrong’; but at least they humour me, and say they will retest ‘whilst I am in store’.

Now I have heard some pretty good diplomatic speeches in my life. the 21st century, given the advent of recording devices, is literally ‘littered with them’.
What happened next, in terms of a sales person ‘choosing their words’ very carefully, still to this day has me ‘chuckle/laugh’ (at least on the inside).
“There is nothing wrong with it, but we did discover a problem and we are going to order a part”
I parroted this statement back to them and asked how that was different to ‘having something wrong with it’. -the diplomacy was longwinded and continued, unabated, whilst I ’walked out the door’. (they already had my money, and they had my player- I literally had ‘no power’)
Next friday rolls around. Middle day (I have learned to not get my hopes up) I go in to pick up my player.
Pat, the beaut salesman who had helped me EVERY STEP OF THE SALES JOURNEY, sees me on the way into the store.. “how is your player going?” he asks... “Pat- I wouldn’t know...”
I explain to him what had been going on. Naturally he is disgusted, reckons they should have just swapped the unit over for a new one on the first visit (this store was the best hifi store in town, and was not uncommon for prime ministers to peruse the shelves/‘rub shoulders with the rest of us’).
They are out of stock, but he says ‘let me get you a new one’; (and informs ‘it will take a month’)

A month rolls by, give or take.. It is Tuesday. I have been shopping since 8am. I have a disc in the old CD player, by Tool, and have just discovered it is HDCD... It is 10am in the morning.
My friend and I start work at 4pm, and will need to leave around 3pm to get there. The Tool album runs for ~80 mins.. doing the math ... Hmm ‘might be enough time’.
My hifi store is on the far side of the city.. their phones are engaged. After half an hour of ringing, only to ‘not get through’ to a person, we make an executive decision- lets risk a drive across town to see if the player has landed.
We knew our margins would be tight, we would need lunch, but my friend could sort that out whilst I pickup the box...
A little after midday I walk into the foyer of Duratone Hifi to be greeted by Pat, who informs me a shipment has just landed (I could see the foyer stacked with boxes, ‘being received’ (a very uncommon sight))...and that my player ‘was in’.

That day we listened to (the HDCD mastered) Lateralus, at an obscene volume (having to shout to be ‘heard’) with just enough time up our sleeves to sit in silence for a few moments after the experience had washed over us.

Was the album better because it was HDCD engineered. Sure/‘likely’.
It definitely wasn’t worse for being processed by some new cutting edge technology. (unlike modern MQA offers those without the tech/‘haven’t payed the piper’)

My passion for the tech, HDCD, has never died. It gets us to 20 bit sound.. (which is perfect for consumer tech, engineers maybe wanting a bit more headroom for ‘play’)
Microsoft bought the company (the HDCD algorithm gave them an advantage against Apple AAC at 64kbps compression level, purely for marketing, as even then 192kbps was the low, with 256 and 320 (and variable rates) being the’norm’). Microsoft buried the tech, basically overnight. But we did get the option to decode HDCDs (in software) via Windows Media Player. (not that they wanted us to have this feature- and newer version of media player buried the option futher and further (you can still go into windows media player settings, and find the devices panel, and click on output, and find a tickbox (in another pop up) to allow ‘hi res decoding’ or some non descript term, that if ticked, will let HDCD files playback at the improved bitdepth (rip your HDCDs as WAVE files, as it leaves the HDCD flags intact)..)).

I know this post is ‘not the usual‘ headfi banter,.. but I am a community member here, and anecdotal stories relevant to the history of hifi, are important for some readers (those who don’t learn from history are doomed to repeat it),..
Not all formats and patents are anti consumer. Some are.
I do believe the power we hold as individuals, internationally in differing ‘markets’, is to ‘vote with our wallets’.
Bad things happen when good people fail to act...

My child, who has many musician friends, wonders if many of them have ever heard proper ‘hifi’ music.
We both see, in the modern world, what the masses are given -certainly without any reference that there is truly better out there(that generally costs pennies if we go vintage and ‘second hand’).
I feel great system synergy can be had with a mix of the old world and the new, and am disappointed when I see the biggest corporations and those ‘at the top of the tree’ enforcing ecosystems of ‘everything must be bought together’- the whole system needs be made of parts built in the last couple of years(to be compatible with each other).
We are not quite in this dystopian world of hifi sales yet.. but we seem to be sailing ‘very close’ to this goal. (HDMI specification has been such a constant moving target that it has created massive buyer hesitancy, as one such example)

As a technician who has built a lot of hifi rigs, for many people, and has serviced many households for technology advice (and businesses too); this rushed adoption rate of modern technology that keeps burying last years flagships to ‘redundancy’ is maddening.
The lengths I am willing to go through to “jerryrig” ‘mismatched’ technologies together, is thorough.

When I discover modern ‘budget’ parts that deliver better than expected performance I champion them.
When I find brands that use ‘better engineering and design’ that allows higher tiered performance at ‘more wallet friendly pricepoints’, I share my findings, and when I find ethical companies that support their end users, AND their products beyond warranty period I am infatuated (in ‘love’).

I have much love for FiiO.

It is why I post on their threads. It is the free community support they get from me, because I feel they give to me in ways that are supporting the human race and the planets’ need to avoid constant obsolescence.
We could say ‘that is just good marketing’ (support your customers), but they don’t know me from Jack, and, having been on their forums and threads and read/‘seen’ first hand what they do- it isn’t lip service, it is action.

Of course any consumer with a ‘back bone’ who stands for beliefs against the consensus (when the consensus may have it wrong), is a champion in my eyes too.
’together we stand’...
 
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Jan 22, 2022 at 8:29 PM Post #21 of 79
My bugbear with MQA is regarding the ethics attached to the marketing of it, and having seen a few ways in which it was hoodwinked into the market, and ‘tricks‘ used to fool early professional reviewers to say ‘nice things’ about it...
Fundamentally, and this is a Sisyphean problem, you'll always lose me at "lossy," but that's just me personally.
 
Jan 22, 2022 at 9:31 PM Post #22 of 79
Fundamentally, and this is a Sisyphean problem, you'll always lose me at "lossy," but that's just me personally.
what if it was some (future) super high resolution format at some incredible sampling rate and/or bit depth?
couldn’t it ‘lose something’ and still be better than ‘transparent sound’? (devils advocate; i exclusively use lossless too)

doesnt flac lose some of the error checking code (redundancy?!)that is encoded on CDs? (it is lossless compression, sure, but thats not so say it would equal CD, academically speaking, in ALL regards...). (semantics, please- just for humours’ sake)

flac ripped hdcds are ‘no longer 20bit’ capable. I do believe this is due to missing the HDCD ’flags’ that stipulate what the enginner optimised for (HDCD allowing two options if I understand correctly).
Nine Inch Nails ‘into the void’ CD single has masterful engineering where the HDCD flag to engage the HDCD light emitting diode (saying HDCD is engaged), is actually tuned on/off to the beat of the music part way through the song..... that is kinda cool ! (‘the fragile’ double disc has these tracks remain as HDCD formatted on the full release album as well).

@FiiO, perhaps we could license from Microsoft a software HDCD solution?

given 20 year old PCs could decode HDCD using their, ‘by todays standards‘, super low powered CPUs; the ‘grunt’ required to do the task would barely warm a modern CPU core (guessing here!)..
I’d happily pay a license cost to get the feature: any chance to shake hands with Microsoft on this one? (i doubt anyone at Microsoft would even know what we are talking about!!)
 
Jan 23, 2022 at 10:40 AM Post #23 of 79
I have much love for FiiO.
That's the most important thing, as they've been very savvy traversing an international market and shown a steadfast commitment to consumers. They're good people in a time that needs those. I recommended a FiiO player to a fella in Australia many years ago, he saved up some money to buy it and the DAP is still going strong to this day. What is significant about this story is, he had a slight problem with filing and the company issued a firmware update specifically for him that solved the issue. I'm glad to see FiiO getting affection and respect.
 
Jan 25, 2022 at 12:53 PM Post #25 of 79
Sharing a quick impression. The M11+ ESS is a pretty enjoyable DAP with a neutral sound signature compared to my Hiby R6. The soundstage is much wider with better depth. The R6 do have better clarity with clear but forward sounding vocals. Pity I don't hv the M11+ AKM to compare:)
How is soundstage height? I listen to some orchestral music where they can be a key enjoyment factor. Thx.
 
Jan 25, 2022 at 10:18 PM Post #26 of 79
How is soundstage height? I listen to some orchestral music where they can be a key enjoyment factor. Thx.
The soundstage is quite wide and it delivers enough depth and height when listening to classical orchestras. It does suffer from a slight loss in clarity which I can perfectly accept given the soundstage. This is in comparison to a few of my DAC/DAPs.
 
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Jan 26, 2022 at 12:20 AM Post #27 of 79
How is soundstage height? I listen to some orchestral music where they can be a key enjoyment factor. Thx.
Cannot speak with any authority regarding the replacement M11+s’ analogue output; but regarding the M11+ line as ‘doing an excellent job’ at lifting infinitesimal detail (ie the air in a chamber space, the ability for instruments to have ‘second harmonic detail’ that allows correct instrument localisation etc);

Over the last couple of days I have had the good fortune to play with a nice ladder DAC (on a reference system I am very familiar with), and ‘kind of rudely’ inserted the M11+ into their ‘hifi chain’.
It smashed the dedicated CD transport, happily, and when we made the ‘good mistake’ of switching over to the ‘one from top of the range (mass market)’ blurray player, the reduction in stage space was massive. (of course we didn’t blind A/B bs etc, what we were looking for was just ‘how things stood’, not: ‘how we imagined them to be’, and even though we likely believed that the blurray player using a standard (plastic) fibre optic cable wouldn’t hold equal to CD transports or decent DAPs,it is irrelevant; the sound quality ’nuances’ that seperate a great system from an excellent one ‘were all gone’ when we stopped using the M11+.

When we replaced the fibre optic cable with a better glass cable, edge of the ‘narrow sound stage’ lost the ’clumped’ echo information’ that the stage should have contained, and the sound space correctly opened up.

What the lesser transport removed/or ‘stole’ from the M11+ rendition (through an offboard’ Denafrips DAC) was mostly airspace (although a tad of instrument tonality and note edge as well)..
The airspace depth dropped to around 2/5ths of the M11+s more thorough reading and passing of the digital ‘zeros and ones’, that gave such accurate placement, including height placement, that the rendition didn’t feel it could be bettered.

It matched or bested my best previously seen ’renditions of test tracks’ (for soundstage),..
and when we turned on DSD: !!!

DSD:
Music went ‘liquid’ real/ Any sense of digital left our minds; this felt like ’true analogue’.
On the reference setup (down to the studio monitors speakers positions and the ‘room surface’ tuning, bought and installed ‘over time’) the change to DSD mode gave a very noticable drop of 3dB through the chain. (this should be expected, but I can confirm ‘quite a few’ of my testing setups didn’t make me ‘change the volume’ after switching, the way this studio reference rig was revealing..)); the DSD output just turned the music to ‘sound spots’ in the room- every instrument had its space localiised, and just sat correctly on the stage, that ‘fell away’/receded infront of us. This was incredible especially regarding a drum set, in one track, that was clearly 30-35ft in front of us (and to the right), and the ‘sound of the skin‘/texture emitted.

I had to say to the other ’panelist’ I’d understand “seeing it“ (‘drums’ ‘ “band” ‘) so vividly if it was the sixties or seventies and I was on LSD! (we both laughed; but nodded our agreement- changing the TRANSPORT had changed the experienced sound quality, AND changing the format had changed the ‘reality’ of the presentation further again.
On day two of the testing, ‘taking 30 seconds or less’ to hookup the
M11+ to the rig (using a budget COAX cable), I was banned from bringing the FiiO transport back again.

In fact the setup was so analytical I challenge @FiiO that the ‘all to DSD‘ mode is engaged even when playing DSD files(?) (an audible difference was noted when deactivating the ‘all to DSD function’, making me guess that ‘all to DSD‘ might also upsample DSD music... (?) (@FiiO maybe deactivate ‘all to DSD’ feature when playing DSD tracks, or make it a ‘tickbox’ in a menu; to “auto deactivate ‘all to DSD’ on detecting a DSD stream- if it doesn’t already!)
To be fair to my testing of this, I only switched twice, when looking for THIS DIFFERENCE, and I believe ‘all to DSD’ ”off” had the DSD file sound ‘brighter edged’ (super subtle).

My point of reply, having not heard an ‘ESS’ chipped version of ‘the same player’; is that the ’nuanced stuff’ is certainly in place.
This is a great little box (M11+), and it having an excellent transport ‘up front’ means that ANY DAC CIRCUIT can ”give its’ best”!

I find for the best ‘most audible’ nunaced delivery- I generally need be in a quiet testing space, and ‘listening critically’.
If the headphones were large ‘over ear’ cans, and might benefit (scale upwards in quality) when fed from ‘high powered headphone amplfication’, then the M11+ would give them its best, when the output is fed through their regular desktop amplifier. Regarding the M11+ netting more detail to them, or ‘any setup’, unless you are coming from higher priced point parts, I doubt you will have ever had ‘more detail’ previously.

The benefit of the ‘front end’ (/transport) being so extremely high quality with the M11+ is that the dual DAC array inside the unit naturally benefits from such precise reading of the ‘digital source file’; better fed DACs will yield more engaging music, most certainly when ‘listening critically’. Much of the M11+ total design works in unison- such as the power isolation and shielding- both benefit individual circuits and the product capability ‘as a whole’ -
The stage size I get from using the internal DACs featured inside the M11+ DAP, is equal to the stage size I hear when using good quality outboard DACs.
Stage size (including height) benefits most from ‘more accurate reading in the first place’ and is why the front end transport section matters most when looking for sound relating to ‘nuanced accuracy’.
 
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Jan 27, 2022 at 7:58 PM Post #28 of 79
Cannot speak with any authority regarding the replacement M11+s’ analogue output; but regarding the M11+ line as ‘doing an excellent job’ at lifting infinitesimal detail (ie the air in a chamber space, the ability for instruments to have ‘second harmonic detail’ that allows correct instrument localisation etc);

Over the last couple of days I have had the good fortune to play with a nice ladder DAC (on a reference system I am very familiar with), and ‘kind of rudely’ inserted the M11+ into their ‘hifi chain’.
It smashed the dedicated CD transport, happily, and when we made the ‘good mistake’ of switching over to the ‘one from top of the range (mass market)’ blurray player, the reduction in stage space was massive. (of course we didn’t blind A/B bs etc, what we were looking for was just ‘how things stood’, not: ‘how we imagined them to be’, and even though we likely believed that the blurray player using a standard (plastic) fibre optic cable wouldn’t hold equal to CD transports or decent DAPs,it is irrelevant; the sound quality ’nuances’ that seperate a great system from an excellent one ‘were all gone’ when we stopped using the M11+.

When we replaced the fibre optic cable with a better glass cable, edge of the ‘narrow sound stage’ lost the ’clumped’ echo information’ that the stage should have contained, and the sound space correctly opened up.

What the lesser transport removed/or ‘stole’ from the M11+ rendition (through an offboard’ Denafrips DAC) was mostly airspace (although a tad of instrument tonality and note edge as well)..
The airspace depth dropped to around 2/5ths of the M11+s more thorough reading and passing of the digital ‘zeros and ones’, that gave such accurate placement, including height placement, that the rendition didn’t feel it could be bettered.

It matched or bested my best previously seen ’renditions of test tracks’ (for soundstage),..
and when we turned on DSD: !!!

DSD:
Music went ‘liquid’ real/ Any sense of digital left our minds; this felt like ’true analogue’.
On the reference setup (down to the studio monitors speakers positions and the ‘room surface’ tuning, bought and installed ‘over time’) the change to DSD mode gave a very noticable drop of 3dB through the chain. (this should be expected, but I can confirm ‘quite a few’ of my testing setups didn’t make me ‘change the volume’ after switching, the way this studio reference rig was revealing..)); the DSD output just turned the music to ‘sound spots’ in the room- every instrument had its space localiised, and just sat correctly on the stage, that ‘fell away’/receded infront of us. This was incredible especially regarding a drum set, in one track, that was clearly 30-35ft in front of us (and to the right), and the ‘sound of the skin‘/texture emitted.

I had to say to the other ’panelist’ I’d understand “seeing it“ (‘drums’ ‘ “band” ‘) so vividly if it was the sixties or seventies and I was on LSD! (we both laughed; but nodded our agreement- changing the TRANSPORT had changed the experienced sound quality, AND changing the format had changed the ‘reality’ of the presentation further again.
On day two of the testing, ‘taking 30 seconds or less’ to hookup the
M11+ to the rig (using a budget COAX cable), I was banned from bringing the FiiO transport back again.

In fact the setup was so analytical I challenge @FiiO that the ‘all to DSD‘ mode is engaged even when playing DSD files(?) (an audible difference was noted when deactivating the ‘all to DSD function’, making me guess that ‘all to DSD‘ might also upsample DSD music... (?) (@FiiO maybe deactivate ‘all to DSD’ feature when playing DSD tracks, or make it a ‘tickbox’ in a menu; to “auto deactivate ‘all to DSD’ on detecting a DSD stream- if it doesn’t already!)
To be fair to my testing of this, I only switched twice, when looking for THIS DIFFERENCE, and I believe ‘all to DSD’ ”off” had the DSD file sound ‘brighter edged’ (super subtle).

My point of reply, having not heard an ‘ESS’ chipped version of ‘the same player’; is that the ’nuanced stuff’ is certainly in place.
This is a great little box (M11+), and it having an excellent transport ‘up front’ means that ANY DAC CIRCUIT can ”give its’ best”!

I find for the best ‘most audible’ nunaced delivery- I generally need be in a quiet testing space, and ‘listening critically’.
If the headphones were large ‘over ear’ cans, and might benefit (scale upwards in quality) when fed from ‘high powered headphone amplfication’, then the M11+ would give them its best, when the output is fed through their regular desktop amplifier. Regarding the M11+ netting more detail to them, or ‘any setup’, unless you are coming from higher priced point parts, I doubt you will have ever had ‘more detail’ previously.

The benefit of the ‘front end’ (/transport) being so extremely high quality with the M11+ is that the dual DAC array inside the unit naturally benefits from such precise reading of the ‘digital source file’; better fed DACs will yield more engaging music, most certainly when ‘listening critically’. Much of the M11+ total design works in unison- such as the power isolation and shielding- both benefit individual circuits and the product capability ‘as a whole’ -
The stage size I get from using the internal DACs featured inside the M11+ DAP, is equal to the stage size I hear when using good quality outboard DACs.
Stage size (including height) benefits most from ‘more accurate reading in the first place’ and is why the front end transport section matters most when looking for sound relating to ‘nuanced accuracy’.
that the ‘all to DSD‘ mode is engaged even when playing DSD files

--No, this mode will not be enabled when playing DSD files.
1643331524738.png


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Jan 27, 2022 at 9:21 PM Post #29 of 79
@FiiO does the above mean that DSD is essentially passed though "bit perfect" with no DSP or oversampling?

This would be wonderful when using the M11 Plus in USB DAC mode, as I use HQ Player for upsampling and output PCM to DSD, and would welcome a high quality device that takes that DSD data stream and plays it back unmodified!

Also: Does M11 Plus support 48k bitrates (48/96/192 etc...) or only 44.1/88.2/176.4 etc...?

And my last question: May we expect to see this new edition M11 Plus available on Amazon soon? That would be my preferred way to purchase it.

Thank you for putting up with my questions! :smile_phones:
 
Jan 29, 2022 at 8:27 PM Post #30 of 79
@FiiO does the above mean that DSD is essentially passed though "bit perfect" with no DSP or oversampling?

This would be wonderful when using the M11 Plus in USB DAC mode, as I use HQ Player for upsampling and output PCM to DSD, and would welcome a high quality device that takes that DSD data stream and plays it back unmodified!

Also: Does M11 Plus support 48k bitrates (48/96/192 etc...) or only 44.1/88.2/176.4 etc...?

And my last question: May we expect to see this new edition M11 Plus available on Amazon soon? That would be my preferred way to purchase it.

Thank you for putting up with my questions! :smile_phones:
Dear friend,

Yes, when using FiiO Music app, the DSD files support 'bit perfect' output. And if the the third party app does not have own decoding library, there will be no SRC when using it. And the FiiO Music app will not have SRC.
Yes, the M11 Plus could support 48/96/192k files.
Here is the formats and sampling rate it supports:
LosslessDSD:DSD64/128/256(“.iso”,“.dsf”,“.dff”),DST iSO
DXD:352.8K/24bit
APE FAST/High/Normal:384kHz/24bit(MAX)
APE Extra High:192kHz/24bit(MAX)
APE Insane:96kHz/24bit(MAX)
Apple Lossless:384kHz/32bit(MAX)
AIFF:384kHz/32bit(MAX)
FLAC:384kHz/32bit(MAX)
WAV:384kHz/32bit(MAX)
WMA LOSSLESS:96kHz/24bit(MAX)
LossyMP3,OGG,WMA,AAC, etc.

We have arranged sending the M11 Plus to Amazon USA. So if the shipping goes well, it will be available early next month.

Best regards
 
FiiO Stay updated on FiiO at their sponsor profile on Head-Fi.
 
https://www.facebook.com/FiiOAUDIO https://twitter.com/FiiO_official https://www.instagram.com/fiioofficial/ https://www.fiio.com support@fiio.com

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