[mink70]

Howdy! A newbie question--forgive the long setup. I'm a newcomer to headphones, though not to hi-fi. I listen to single-ended and push-pull tube equpment with my speakers. However, I like tubes to sound fast and linear with a lot of pace and involvement, and liquid and warm at the same time. For me, the best tube equipment has that sound. A couple of years ago I bought a ASL Head--the one with the 12AX7s--and some Senheiser 580s to go with it. Even after break-in and tube rolling, I found it warm, syrupy and slow--the stereotype of a (poorly designed, IMO) traditional tube circuit. The amp killed my desire to listen to headphones for a few years, and I sold it on Ebay. The 580s, as it turned out, weren't for me either--they sounded good but I just couldn't get involved in the music. Now, after the long hiatus, I'd like to get back to headphones. My priority is musical involvement and tubes--I used to contribute articles to the now defunct Listener magazine, if that helps with my perspective. I was thinking about getting some AKGs--maybe the 501s or 701s. Can anyone recommend a headphone amp that sounds fast and exciting and transparent rather than warmed over and slow? X-cans? Ear Max? Something else? Sound advice will be much appreciated.

 

[doctorjuggles]

My first tube experience was exactly the same as yours, I bought an Earmax and found it to be far too slow and syrupy.
I was really apprehensive about buying another tube based amp, but based on my research ended up going with a Ray Samuels Raptor and I'm hugely glad that I did. Fast, punchy, great timing, easily one of my best ever audio purchases.

 

[ghiberti]

Rudistor NKK-02 is the fastest and most dynamic tube amp I've tried

and it's a very cute

 

[Uncle Erik]

I'd recommend one of the OTL tube headphone amps. Off the top of my head, I know that ASL made a model or two of OTL and the Eddie Current EC-01 is one, too. There are a few DIY ones in the library over at Headwize, as well.

 

[mink70]

Thanks for those helpful responses. Are any of the less exotic units, like X-cans, fast and exciting sounding, too?

 

[Gradofan2]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mink70 Thanks for those helpful responses. Are any of the less exotic units, like X-cans, fast and exciting sounding, too?

Yes the XCANs are fast and exciting, as well as have a somewhat warm tube sound - but, generally have a bit more of a SS sound than slow, tubey sound.

That's also true of most other tube / SS hybrid amps (e.g. BADA PH-12, G&W t2.6F, etc.).

And... some OTL amps are designed to offer pretty fast and exciting sound (e.g. Raptor, WooAudio 3, perhaps the SP Slams, etc.) - which is greater with selected tubes, than others.

And... generally Transformer Coupled amps offer pretty fast and exciting sound (e.g. WooAudio 2, WooAudio 6, etc.). Some amps, like the ASL MG OTL MKIII offers both switchable OTL and Transformer Coupled output, which allows you to "tune" the sound even moreso - OTL mode a more tubey, softer sound, and Transformer Coupled mode a faster, harder sound.

 

[sacd lover]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gradofan2 And... generally Transformer Coupled amps offer pretty fast and exciting sound (e.g. WooAudio 2, WooAudio 6, etc.). Some amps, like the ASL MG OTL MKIII offers both switchable OTL and Transformer Coupled output, which allows you to "tune" the sound even moreso - OTL mode a more tubey, softer sound, and Transformer Coupled mode a faster, harder sound.

Have you ever heard a transformer coupled amp?

Because the stereotypes you offer are inconsistent with my experiences. OTL amps are not categorically softer, tubier or slower than any other tube amp. In fact, a good OTL can often be more alive and less colored than a similar transformer coupled amp.

Nothing can potentially give you a warmer, slower and more colored sound than a transformer coupled amp using triodes .... particularly if the output transformers are of questionable quality and have limited bandwidth.

Furthermore, this more solid state claim for transformer coupled amps, was mostly related to the fact most transformer coupled amps, that were manufactured in any of our lifetimes, used pentodes push/ pull with an Ultralinear circuit topology. The pentode tube itself definitely has a more solid state type of presentation compared to most triodes .... even if you run the pentode tube as a "strapped triode". Add the typical push/ pull Ultralinear circuit to pentode tubes and you will get a faster more solid state sound. But almost none of the amps we are discussing here use that topology.

So, I believe, claiming a transformer coupled amp will have an inherently faster and more solid state presentation compared to an OTL design is just not true.

 

[augustwest]

The SinglePower PPX3 SLAM is a perfect example of a OTL tube amp that can be, if you configure it so, very fast and clean. So much so that when I first took it out of the box and powered it up, I was shocked to hear that it sounded more "solid state" than my SS amp!

It wasn't until I had spent some more time with the PPX SLAM, and a variety of tube sets that I discovered the wide ranges of sound types that could be achieved with this amp. That is the beauty of the "OTL" design, with a amp like the PPX SLAM, it really allows the tubes to speak for themselves and allow a nearly infinite number of sonic possibilities.

Another thing to consider when choosing a amp, is that you suggested that you may be wanting to drive the AKG 701's. Those phones require more current to drive than many other of the headphones out there. So figure that into your decision making process.


- augustwest

 

[artears]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mink70 Howdy! A newbie question--forgive the long setup. I'm a newcomer to headphones, though not to hi-fi. I listen to single-ended and push-pull tube equpment with my speakers. However, I like tubes to sound fast and linear with a lot of pace and involvement, and liquid and warm at the same time. For me, the best tube equipment has that sound. A couple of years ago I bought a ASL Head--the one with the 12AX7s--and some Senheiser 580s to go with it. Even after break-in and tube rolling, I found it warm, syrupy and slow--the stereotype of a (poorly designed, IMO) traditional tube circuit. The amp killed my desire to listen to headphones for a few years, and I sold it on Ebay. The 580s, as it turned out, weren't for me either--they sounded good but I just couldn't get involved in the music. Now, after the long hiatus, I'd like to get back to headphones. My priority is musical involvement and tubes--I used to contribute articles to the now defunct Listener magazine, if that helps with my perspective. I was thinking about getting some AKGs--maybe the 501s or 701s. Can anyone recommend a headphone amp that sounds fast and exciting and transparent rather than warmed over and slow? X-cans? Ear Max? Something else? Sound advice will be much appreciated.

I can say that Raptor from RSA is a tube amp and it is fast and comparable to ss amps in that regard in its standard form (without changing the tubes). I listened to some ss amps like Corda Aria and Ray's other amps like HR-2, however I liked Raptor a lot. Let me say that I love the sound of Sennheiser HD650s and the listenings are done with HD600s. You can access a 6moons review about this amp here: http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/raptor/raptor_4.html

If you use search function, you can reach a lot of info about Raptor. I am not affiliated with Ray Samuels in any way, but I do like his products a lot. Hope this helps.

 

[drarthurwells]

Bada PH 12 for $425 total. A perfect mate for the K701.

Change the stock Chinese tubes for three USA made 6SN7 GT types though.

Multitude of different sounds available - like having two dozen amps in one - depending on tube combos.

Use one Electro Harmonix Gold as input and two Raytheon GT (with T plates) as the output tubes, and you have a Raptor like sound that is detailed, with great tone separation and imaging, lightning fast transients like solid state, but does not suffer from the shortcomings. A fraction of the cost also.

Click on my Bada link below.

 

[AS1]

Where do the Little Dot tube amps stand in terms of speed and dynamics?

 

[Jahn]

Quote:

Originally Posted by augustwest The SinglePower PPX3 SLAM is a perfect example of a OTL tube amp that can be, if you configure it so, very fast and clean. So much so that when I first took it out of the box and powered it up, I was shocked to hear that it sounded more "solid state" than my SS amp! It wasn't until I had spent some more time with the PPX SLAM, and a variety of tube sets that I discovered the wide ranges of sound types that could be achieved with this amp. That is the beauty of the "OTL" design, with a amp like the PPX SLAM, it really allows the tubes to speak for themselves and allow a nearly infinite number of sonic possibilities. Another thing to consider when choosing a amp, is that you suggested that you may be wanting to drive the AKG 701's. Those phones require more current to drive than many other of the headphones out there. So figure that into your decision making process. - augustwest

If you are looking for fast, I second the PPX Slam thought - It held its own against my Melos, which is a solid state/tube hybrid, so that's how fast and clean it was!

 

[mink70]

Thanks for the extremely helpful suggestions. I looked up some reviews of the Raptor and the PPX-Slam and they make these units sound fantastic--but a grand or so is just a little more money than I want to invest in my first headphone amp. Is there anything in the $500 or less category that has a similar sonic signature and is lots of fun to listen to?

 

[augustwest]

You can get a "used" PPX Slam, for around your budget, maybe a little higher.

- augustwest

 

[sacd lover]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mink70 Thanks for the extremely helpful suggestions. I looked up some reviews of the Raptor and the PPX-Slam and they make these units sound fantastic--but a grand or so is just a little more money than I want to invest in my first headphone amp. Is there anything in the $500 or less category that has a similar sonic signature and is lots of fun to listen to?

You can get the base PPX3-6CG7 and substitute a 6GU7 for gain. That would make for a very fast and lively sounding amp for about $650. The other option would be a Mapletree ear+ for $595. I prefer the PPX3 but the ear+ is a good amp too. You would likely find the 580 doesnt sound so warm, slow and syrupy with a faster, more transparent and revealing amp.