Fake Senheiser IE800?
May 8, 2017 at 5:38 PM Post #286 of 454
AFAIK the real IE800 have a serial # (typically app. 35.000 to 45.000) on the metal plate inside the leather case.

Yours doesn't have that.

Actually it's there if you look carefully... the camera shot isn't the best there.
It's also on the sticker on the back of the box even though that 1st photo isn't clear enough to show it...

Sie800_BOXback&front2.JPG



Sie800_CASEopen.JPG
 
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May 8, 2017 at 6:05 PM Post #288 of 454
@JDominic, thank you for the pictures. They are excellent in quality. To be honest, though, I think you have already figured out that you have bought counterfeit IE800s. I have studied your excellent pictures and compared them with those on posts #29, 111, 201 and 218 (among others) and there are several "tell-tale" signs that yours are counterfeit. The poor finishing on the plastic/rubber pieces, the uneven appearing grills, the absence of the "gold ring" when the cables are connected, just to name a few. The one feature on yours that is not in others' pictures is the metal band that bears the "S" logo on the L plug. My impression was that the "S" logo was on the upper and lower surfaces of the plug, but your "S" logo is on the sides. In my opinion, you should return these for a refund from the dealer. I would also report the vendor for selling counterfeit merchandise....

Hey jdog :beerchug:

funny you should mention that 'metal band' piece on the plug... it actually does rotate or spin either way so the "S" logos can be placed anywhere :ksc75smile:
 
May 8, 2017 at 6:24 PM Post #289 of 454
Gee, even on my known "fake" DIY IE800s the metal band does not spin around. Can anyone with a authentic pair of Sennheiser IE800s comment on the metal band on the L plug.... is it able to spin around or should it be fixed in place?
 
Aug 11, 2017 at 3:04 PM Post #290 of 454
What baffles me is, when an original branded IEM worth $800 with a manufacturing cost of no more than $100 can be bought, dismantled, studied and reproduced on a similar cost minus branding, warehousing and marketing and advertising costs, WHY nobody ever produces a genuinely talented IEM of same tech but sold for $200, instead of cheap $40 imitations of no greatness. Why, why, why can't a great $800 IEM be emulated in all its greatness for $200 minus branding and advertising and be sold only online through word-of-mouth?!! Why is it that we don't have a dozen more of $300 DUNU DN-2000J likes for a dozen likes of AKG K3003s?! Can someone explain?

What a really good question! I have some thoughts...

The state of the world right now is that German (and most western) engineering design and manufacturing carry a significantly higher cost than that originating from - just as an example - China. A very clever design that produces a significantly improved sound from relatively cheap components is likely to get copied. If the OEM charges a hefty premium for this product, it's just begging to get copied. I want to make it very clear I don't support counterfeiting in any shape or form. But the harsh reality is there's nothing we can do to stop it. The sketchy profits from copying/counterfeiting extend far wider than just that of the unscrupulous seller - the sellers' platform (e.g., eBay) and even the sellers' governments are likely more than happy to turn a blind eye to all of this. Yes, I know eBay legally has to refund IF a buyer complains, but what percentage of buyers even realize they've been conned? I would guess it's a very small number, given how good some of these copies have become.

Historically, all forms of western engineering have been widely copied, including entire passenger and military aircraft. I'm not making veiled insinuations about where the best design has come from - I'm simply stating who (predominantly) copied whom. Obviously, globalization and the internet is now levelling the playing field. In the IEM arena, there has been very good design/engineering/manufacturing coming from Chinese companies like FLC. As much as I love the IE800 and appreciate (most parts of!) its clever design, the USD$350 FLC 8S is, IMHO, superior in pretty much every regard. It uses a very clever tunable system of ports before and aft of its dynamic driver and then two BA drivers with another adjustable mid/high-frequency filter in the nozzle. It can be tuned to give the same sparkling highs and thumping sub-bass (without the mid-bass bleed) that you get from the IE800. Given the components/drivers/filters and the lower price (relative to the IE800), I suspect the profit margins you'd get from producing a fake FLC 8S wouldn't be worth the trouble. Why bother making a fake Zero Audio Carbo Tenore, when the (already very nice sounding) original is only $40?!? You'd have to sell an awful lot of fakes to make it worthwhile :wink:

The question I have going forward is, are these western companies really going to be able to continue to charge such large premiums for what is often an assembly of fairly cheap components? I'm torn on this value-for-money issue. There needs to be incentives for good quality R&D to create the next greatest audio breakthrough - and some headphones, e.g., Shure's clear-shell SE846 with its welded plates for its low-pass filter, or the KSE1500 with its own electrostatic amp, could (perhaps?) justify a high price tag since they'd be expensive/difficult to manufacture, even as fakes. On the other hand, some recent multi-driver IEMs, such as 64 Audio's TIA Fourte, are selling for prices so outrageous it's laughable ($3600+tax), given that there's nothing in them but off-the-shelf $0.50 drivers (oh, and BTW, the Fourte's sound is nothing that special either). Here's another example - going back to that clever German engineering... I recently picked up a pair of Beyerdynamic Xelentos. Now I do like the Xelentos; overall, I prefer them to the IE800. They don't have quite the level of sub-bass, and tend to be a bit weightier in the mid-range and mid-bass, but I find their treble smoother, more resolving and less fatiguing than that of the IE800. However, the Xelentos are plastic shelled, single dynamic driver IEMs that sell for $1000. Anybody want to bet we'll be seeing some fake Xelentos on eBay in 1, 2, 3....?
 
Aug 11, 2017 at 3:43 PM Post #291 of 454
What a really good question! I have some thoughts...

The state of the world right now is that German (and most western) engineering design and manufacturing carry a significantly higher cost than that originating from - just as an example - China. A very clever design that produces a significantly improved sound from relatively cheap components is likely to get copied. If the OEM charges a hefty premium for this product, it's just begging to get copied. I want to make it very clear I don't support counterfeiting in any shape or form. But the harsh reality is there's nothing we can do to stop it. The sketchy profits from copying/counterfeiting extend far wider than just that of the unscrupulous seller - the sellers' platform (e.g., eBay) and even the sellers' governments are likely more than happy to turn a blind eye to all of this. Yes, I know eBay legally has to refund IF a buyer complains, but what percentage of buyers even realize they've been conned? I would guess it's a very small number, given how good some of these copies have become.

Historically, all forms of western engineering have been widely copied, including entire passenger and military aircraft. I'm not making veiled insinuations about where the best design has come from - I'm simply stating who (predominantly) copied whom. Obviously, globalization and the internet is now levelling the playing field. In the IEM arena, there has been very good design/engineering/manufacturing coming from Chinese companies like FLC. As much as I love the IE800 and appreciate (most parts of!) its clever design, the USD$350 FLC 8S is, IMHO, superior in pretty much every regard. It uses a very clever tunable system of ports before and aft of its dynamic driver and then two BA drivers with another adjustable mid/high-frequency filter in the nozzle. It can be tuned to give the same sparkling highs and thumping sub-bass (without the mid-bass bleed) that you get from the IE800. Given the components/drivers/filters and the lower price (relative to the IE800), I suspect the profit margins you'd get from producing a fake FLC 8S wouldn't be worth the trouble. Why bother making a fake Zero Audio Carbo Tenore, when the (already very nice sounding) original is only $40?!? You'd have to sell an awful lot of fakes to make it worthwhile :wink:

The question I have going forward is, are these western companies really going to be able to continue to charge such large premiums for what is often an assembly of fairly cheap components? I'm torn on this value-for-money issue. There needs to be incentives for good quality R&D to create the next greatest audio breakthrough - and some headphones, e.g., Shure's clear-shell SE846 with its welded plates for its low-pass filter, or the KSE1500 with its own electrostatic amp, could (perhaps?) justify a high price tag since they'd be expensive/difficult to manufacture, even as fakes. On the other hand, some recent multi-driver IEMs, such as 64 Audio's TIA Fourte, are selling for prices so outrageous it's laughable ($3600+tax), given that there's nothing in them but off-the-shelf $0.50 drivers (oh, and BTW, the Fourte's sound is nothing that special either). Here's another example - going back to that clever German engineering... I recently picked up a pair of Beyerdynamic Xelentos. Now I do like the Xelentos; overall, I prefer them to the IE800. They don't have quite the level of sub-bass, and tend to be a bit weightier in the mid-range and mid-bass, but I find their treble smoother, more resolving and less fatiguing than that of the IE800. However, the Xelentos are plastic shelled, single dynamic driver IEMs that sell for $1000. Anybody want to bet we'll be seeing some fake Xelentos on eBay in 1, 2, 3....?

Xelento are quite cool, some folks will like their smooth top end, while other folks will like the strong top end of ie800.
 
Aug 18, 2017 at 4:00 PM Post #293 of 454
Could anybody send me a PM with the site where you've bought your fake IE 800, with all the original box and holographic code?

I've an original pair, and want to compare it with these fine copies. :ksc75smile:

Why with "original box and holographic code"....then it really would be supporting counterfeiting which we are trying to eradicate...there are lots of copy cats though which we can do nothing about and which will be more or less identical in sound to the counterfeit ie800s.
Regardless....unless the driver, casing and cable are absolutely of the same rigid design, materials and quality of craftsman ship as of the the made in Germany Sennheiser ie800s they are not ie800s....and a trivial pursuit.
 
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Aug 18, 2017 at 4:18 PM Post #294 of 454
Why with "original box and holographic code"....then it really would be supporting counterfeiting which we are trying to eradicate...there are lots of copy cats though which we can do nothing about and which will be more or less identical in sound to the counterfeit ie800s.
Regardless....unless the driver, casing and cable are absolutely of the same rigid design, materials and quality of craftsman ship as of the the made in Germany Sennheiser ie800s they are not ie800s....and a trivial pursuit.

Because I want to see the overall fidelity to the original product on my own, no other reason than that.

I appreciate a lot the details in the products I buy, not only the raw product.
 
Aug 18, 2017 at 4:41 PM Post #295 of 454
Because I want to see the overall fidelity to the original product on my own, no other reason than that.

I appreciate a lot the details in the products I buy, not only the raw product.

I can appreciate that....but if you already own an authentic original pair...which anyone following this thread should pursue and aspire to..:)....all the counterfeits, which may or may not sound ok are really just cheap copies. :triportsad:

But even though I don't condone counterfeiting I'm as guilty as anyone else as I also acquired a pair of Chinese ie800 in a Sennheiser box with sticker as the $30 dollar price tag was too much for my curiosity but I followed up by obtaining a legit pair soon after.....as they say the "devils in the details"... : )
 
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Aug 19, 2017 at 4:35 AM Post #296 of 454
Gee, even on my known "fake" DIY IE800s the metal band does not spin around. Can anyone with a authentic pair of Sennheiser IE800s comment on the metal band on the L plug.... is it able to spin around or should it be fixed in place?

Not spinning, actually looks like built into the plastic/rubber protection, maybe using heat, molded together, smth like that. It has 2x S logo up and down and 2x hollow ish points on the sides where you grab it to plug in/out. The plastic/rubber (consistency is between those materials, either very hard rubber or somehow elastic-rubbery-plastic) has the edges where it meets the metal a little ...how to say this... bumped adhering to metal, like liquids adhere to solids which makes me think of heat treatment. Also, the plastic part has 2x tiny holes no the jack side near the hollow points of the metal ring. They look like plastic injection points. The jack side of the plastic has a tiny bezel like at the metal connection. It seems like the wire had the plastic part on it, then metal ring added, jack soldered and finally jack side plastic injected hot to completely cover and seal the wire/jack soldering.
Originals, official retailer, full price 30xxx serial.
 
Aug 21, 2017 at 2:01 PM Post #297 of 454
Not spinning, actually looks like built into the plastic/rubber protection, maybe using heat, molded together, smth like that. It has 2x S logo up and down and 2x hollow ish points on the sides where you grab it to plug in/out. The plastic/rubber (consistency is between those materials, either very hard rubber or somehow elastic-rubbery-plastic) has the edges where it meets the metal a little ...how to say this... bumped adhering to metal, like liquids adhere to solids which makes me think of heat treatment. Also, the plastic part has 2x tiny holes no the jack side near the hollow points of the metal ring. They look like plastic injection points. The jack side of the plastic has a tiny bezel like at the metal connection. It seems like the wire had the plastic part on it, then metal ring added, jack soldered and finally jack side plastic injected hot to completely cover and seal the wire/jack soldering.
Originals, official retailer, full price 30xxx serial.

Really detailed answer there!

Thank you!
 
Aug 24, 2017 at 9:16 PM Post #299 of 454
Seems like most of the fakes are coming from China. Don't understand why they don't produce their own version of the ie800 even if it is heavily cloned and sell it under their own brand. If the sound quality and build quality are good and they sold the product for say $200-$300 they might generate a fair amount of sales like other Chi-Fi brands. For example the KZ ZS5 IEM looks like a Campfire Audio clone. It might even cause Sennheiser to lower the price on the ie800 or develop and release a successor model to justify keeping the price the same.
 
Aug 24, 2017 at 9:34 PM Post #300 of 454
Seems like most of the fakes are coming from China. Don't understand why they don't produce their own version of the ie800 even if it is heavily cloned and sell it under their own brand. If the sound quality and build quality are good and they sold the product for say $200-$300 they might generate a fair amount of sales like other Chi-Fi brands. For example the KZ ZS5 IEM looks like a Campfire Audio clone. It might even cause Sennheiser to lower the price on the ie800 or develop and release a successor model to justify keeping the price the same.

It is simple :smile_phones:

People stock on those fakes. An original needs years of work to build itself a name, but a fake sells a few stocks on a known brand's name. Of course, they don't make much, but they don't try to, imagine that fakes have almost no QC, a typical company needs QC, needs to provide support and such.

Seen this with Beats fakes. Every phone case shop has a few beats clones and skillcandies.
 
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