[bigshot]

Generally, when I see speakers listed, the cost is per side. Are you talking about $500 a side speakers or $1000 a side ones? Big difference. A nice bookshelf speaker can sound very nice for rock music and would certainly be possible for under $500 a side. It wouldn't satisfy someone who listens to a lot of orchestral or acoustic jazz though. That would require $1000 a side and up. It's worth the expense though, because a set of really good speakers can last you a long time and prevent a lot of wasteful upgrades.

See ya
Steve

 

[gritzcolin]

Quote:

Originally Posted by chesebert /img/forum/go_quote.gif in the grand scheme of things sub $1k spkr are considered 'entry level' and are cheap by many standards. If you can't afford the 'entry fee' I wouldn't bother with spkrs. cans offer a much better value under $500

You miss the point by saying that. If you go out to a mall and ask 100 people a few brands of speakers high end and sub $500 ones, you will have an alarming amount who have never heard of B&W or hell even Paradigm, but those same people will typically know what Bose and JBL are. To that end thats why buying used is great. I got a pair of Polk LSi7's for $200 MSRP $899 reviews on those placed them among the best bookshelf speakers under the $2000 ceiling and arguably the best sub $1k. Paired with my old Sansui I haven't heard anything better till I heard them on a $2000 McIntosh amp/Rotel Preamp and $1500 or so B&W bookshelf speakers. So I am pretty damn happy with the money I saved and the gear it stands up to.

Sure your super richy expensive gear is better but a great stereo can be built for less than $1000. Not nearly as many people as you think are made of money we have bills and blue collar jobs the majority of people. Plus there is no way in hell a single driver with accordian surround and whizzer cone is worth $4000 a pair hemp or no I'd take Bose over it!

 

[Sovkiller]

It is not true and it is very far from reality to say that you can not get good sound out of moderately priced speakers. I have heard multi-thousand dollar setups with very expensive speakers, and they sounded very good but know what, the difference with moderately priced ones, or DIY ones, in a good placement it is not comparable to the difference in price. I dare to say that most important in speakers, being decent, is the right placement over the price. Place them poorly and you will have a miserable setup, it doesn't matter how much you pay for it, thousands or millions...any good studio monitor will give you faithfully presentation and very good sound, ones better than others, and mainly all of them cost under $1000.00...JBL and Polk that were used above as synonym of cheap brands have good speakers both, old and new, you just have to choose, not all what you can find is good...Axioms made very good speakers as many others in that price range, for classical, for jazz, and for whatever you want to listen to...BTW Steve classical music is not superior to any other genre in recording quality, nor in performance, and you can find good recording in any kind of music, and I have heard more crappy recordings in classical than in jazz for example...Telarc offers very good quality recordings, and a lot of jazz musicians record there nowadays

You can get some of the best drivers ever made for under a grand, make a good box out a very good materials and you will have a very good speaker for real cheap...Skan Speak, Vifa, Morel, HiVi, Seas, Peerless, and many others made extremely good drivers for speakers for cheap...there are very good DIY kits for those drivers around, you just have to choose wisely, now, be careful if you do not have the real state for an speaker setup, do not waste your time, you will never achieve a good sound, and you will be better served with a headphone setup....

Now speakers versus headphones, price wise, another myth, the only advantage of the headphones is that the real state and the convenience of the isolation, my headphone setup is far more expensive than many speakers setups out there, and I'm not convinced of that nirvana yet...

The only reason I do not invest more in my speaker setup is precisely that, I do not have the space for a dedicated room for them, any cash on that will be miserably wasted...

 

[gritzcolin]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sovkiller /img/forum/go_quote.gif You can get some of the best drivers ever made for under a grand, make a good box out a very good materials and you will have a very good speaker for real cheap...Skan Speak, Vifa, Morel, HiVi, Seas, Peerless, and many others made extremely good drivers for speakers for cheap...there are very good DIY kits for those drivers around,

I was thinking of some of the DIY projects from parts express, they sell at least three of the brands you listed. Usher 701 runs about $600.

 

[chesebert]

Quote:

Originally Posted by gritzcolin /img/forum/go_quote.gif You miss the point by saying that. If you go out to a mall and ask 100 people a few brands of speakers high end and sub $500 ones, you will have an alarming amount who have never heard of B&W or hell even Paradigm, but those same people will typically know what Bose and JBL are. To that end thats why buying used is great. I got a pair of Polk LSi7's for $200 MSRP $899 reviews on those placed them among the best bookshelf speakers under the $2000 ceiling and arguably the best sub $1k. Paired with my old Sansui I haven't heard anything better till I heard them on a $2000 McIntosh amp/Rotel Preamp and $1500 or so B&W bookshelf speakers. So I am pretty damn happy with the money I saved and the gear it stands up to. Sure your super richy expensive gear is better but a great stereo can be built for less than $1000. Not nearly as many people as you think are made of money we have bills and blue collar jobs the majority of people. Plus there is no way in hell a single driver with accordian surround and whizzer cone is worth $4000 a pair hemp or no I'd take Bose over it!

.

1. your LSi7 is right in the $500 - $1000 range I specified for a set of decent cheap spkr. The fact you got a good deal is irrelevant wrt my point.

2. This is headfi not the mall.

(you will have less people recognize Sennheiser or AKG for that matter, at least B&W stores are in some malls

 

[Sovkiller]

Quote:

Originally Posted by gritzcolin /img/forum/go_quote.gif I was thinking of some of the DIY projects from parts express, they sell at least three of the brands you listed. Usher 701 runs about $600.

Visit also Speakercity and Madisound they have very good kits and eveninclude the cabinets on them, for cheap and with very good drivers...also there are some Mobile Fidelity monitors for sale in the demo section here...

 

[gritzcolin]

Quote:

Originally Posted by chesebert /img/forum/go_quote.gif . 1. your LSi7 is right in the $500 - $1000 range I specified for a set of decent cheap spkr. The fact you got a good deal is irrelevant wrt my point. 2. This is headfi not the mall. (you will have less people recognize Sennheiser or AKG for that matter, at least B&W stores are in some malls

You still make it sound like if it's not expensive than it's no good which isn't true. The speakers I have to a good chunk of people even at headfi are pretty high end based on the price alone. Alot of us appreciate good gear just some can't justify not eating for a few months to buy it. If I didn't get the deal I got on my speakers there is no way I would have bought them and I'd have been happy with my Onkyo monitors. I do regret not getting the tower versions of my speakers for $600 grrr such is life though I didn't have the money at the time.

 

[chesebert]

Quote:

Originally Posted by gritzcolin /img/forum/go_quote.gif You still make it sound like if it's not expensive than it's no good which isn't true. The speakers I have to a good chunk of people even at headfi are pretty high end based on the price alone. Alot of us appreciate good gear just some can't justify not eating for a few months to buy it.

If they can't entertain the 'entry fee' they should stay with headphone for a better sound/value ratio. .... I give up ...

 

[gritzcolin]

Quote:

Originally Posted by chesebert /img/forum/go_quote.gif If they can't entertain the 'entry fee' they should stay with headphone for a better sound/value ratio. .... I give up ...

The OP asked for a speaker and amp setup, I don't disagree that a $500 headphone setup would sound better but he wasn't asking for that. Also again tis why used purchasing was suggested, especially since headphones tend to hold their value better in the used market.

 

[GreatDane]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sovkiller /img/forum/go_quote.gif It is not true and it is very far from reality to say that you can not get good sound out of moderately priced speakers. I have heard multi-thousand dollar setups with very expensive speakers, and they sounded very good but know what, the difference with moderately priced ones, or DIY ones, in a good placement it is not comparable to the difference in price. I dare to say that most important in speakers, being decent, is the right placement over the price. Place them poorly and you will have a miserable setup, it doesn't matter how much you pay for it, thousands or millions...any good studio monitor will give you faithfully presentation and very good sound, ones better than others, and mainly all of them cost under $1000.00...JBL and Polk that were used above as synonym of cheap brands have good speakers both, old and new, you just have to choose, not all what you can find is good...Axioms made very good speakers as many others in that price range, for classical, for jazz, and for whatever you want to listen to...BTW Steve classical music is not superior to any other genre in recording quality, nor in performance, and you can find good recording in any kind of music, and I have heard more crappy recordings in classical than in jazz for example...Telarc offers very good quality recordings, and a lot of jazz musicians record there nowadays You can get some of the best drivers ever made for under a grand, make a good box out a very good materials and you will have a very good speaker for real cheap...Skan Speak, Vifa, Morel, HiVi, Seas, Peerless, and many others made extremely good drivers for speakers for cheap...there are very good DIY kits for those drivers around, you just have to choose wisely, now, be careful if you do not have the real state for an speaker setup, do not waste your time, you will never achieve a good sound, and you will be better served with a headphone setup.... Now speakers versus headphones, price wise, another myth, the only advantage of the headphones is that the real state and the convenience of the isolation, my headphone setup is far more expensive than many speakers setups out there, and I'm not convinced of that nirvana yet... The only reason I do not invest more in my speaker setup is precisely that, I do not have the space for a dedicated room for them, any cash on that will be miserably wasted...

Great post...and amen to that!

 

[Sarchi]

Speaking of DIY, there's no easier speaker to build than an open baffle from plywood. $290 for the amazing Silver Iris 15" coaxials (made by Eminence), and you have a really stunning pair of homemade speakers. Put a 10 watt tube amp on them, sit back and enjoy. Many smiles here.

 

[fordgtlover]

To illustrate the point, in car audio the single biggest improvement you can make is to upgrade your car speakers from the standard ones. Everyone rushes out and buys a new head unit and amp and finds that it sounds, hmmmm... about the same.

An average amp can make decent speakers sing; the opposite is not true. My M³ amp wont make my earbuds sound much better. My K701 driven by a CMoy still sounds a lot better than the M³ driving the earbuds.

 

[monolith]

Quote:

Originally Posted by fordgtlover /img/forum/go_quote.gif An average amp can make decent speakers sing; the opposite is not true. My M³ amp wont make my earbuds sound much better. My K701 driven by a CMoy still sounds a lot better than the M³ driving the earbuds.

Well said.

 

[spacemanspliff]

Shop smart and just get whatever is best available to you. I got my Tube Audio Design 805 monitors and sub for less that $300 shipped total. That is an obscene deal considering that they retail (and are worth every penny) for about $900 shipped. I paid a third of the retail price. These speakers, coupled with my Ori dac and old NAD 2100 power amp, simply amaze. Even without the sub the 805s are damn near full range reaching firmly down to 40hz with really good midrange. With the sub in the mix it will be game over.

I cannot use the sub atm b/c my old Sony pre gave up the ghost recently and I am getting a Parasound 5.1 Pre for $170 shipped.

Bottom line is, shop smart on audiogon and you can attain a bitching system for $1500 that will match up with just about anything under $10000.

 

[Pibborando]

Quote:

Originally Posted by spacemanspliff /img/forum/go_quote.gif ... I am getting a Parasound 5.1 Pre for $170 shipped.

Off topic but, which one would that be?

And also echoing the sentiment that I'd rather have nice speakers with decent processing and amping. But I'd probably upgrade the rest of the chain down the line if I was truly happy with the speakers and thought I wouldn't be upgrading from them in the foreseeable future.

edit: Oh, is it the P/S 1500 on Audiogon?