[raylliant]

Thanks. Good to know

 

[putente]

Great post! Thanks for sharing, Mike! 

 

[tranhieu]

Thanks for the interview, very informative. But the 2 parts of the 'where's the market going' aren't working.

 

[tomscy2000]

Quote:

  Thanks for the interview, very informative. But the 2 parts of the 'where's the market going' aren't working.

Just go to their SoundCloud profile: http://soundcloud.com/ultimateears

 

[MuZo2]

Quote:

Just go to their SoundCloud profile: http://soundcloud.com/ultimateears

I think they are missing from SoundCloud too ..

 

[scrypt]

All of this helps to explain why reshelling is such finicky surgery that it rarely produces the same sound afterward -- and why IEM companies almost never endorse the practice. This might not be a question of branding or those same companies wanting more money. Perhaps they're skeptical because tiny variables change the sound in potentially immense ways.

 

[tomscy2000]

Quote:

  I think they are missing from SoundCloud too ..

 
Hmm, that's too bad. I assumed they'd be up there... whoops.
 
Quote:

  All of this helps to explain why reshelling is such finicky surgery that you can never expect the same sound afterward -- and why IEM companies rarely endorse the practice. This might not be a question of branding or those same companies wanting more money. They probably know well that tiny variables change the sound in potentially immense ways.

 
Well, one thing that helps is that most of the source material --- acrylic, mounting glue, dampers, tubing, etc. comes from the same few suppliers for 98% of the companies around, so reshelling and getting it to be very close to the original is not as difficult as he might describe it to be, although it has its challenges. The examples mentioned in the recordings are actually either one of two cases: (1) someone's trying a new manufacturing technique of the shell or trying out new tubing, or (2) the company is in some ways incompetent. There are definitely a ton of different factors that go into CIEMs, but as long as the companies know what they're doing, then it's not as worrisome as the recordings seem to make it to be. I think Mr. Hruza sees an disproportionally large number of cases where things go wrong, because that's when the companies go and talk to Sonion, erroneously complaining of QC or whatever. I've spoken to a Knowles engineer that works with numerous ODM/OEM firms in Asia, and something similar was mentioned, but in the context that it's often the companies who sometimes just don't know what they're doing.
 
At the end of the day, however, it is a question of branding --- the larger companies do not provide reshelling services because they want to be seen as their own entity. They also do not want the hassle of customer complaints of a reshell gone wrong; they'd rather focus on having their own products be as consistently made as possible. However, there is merit in the smaller companies doing reshells. They get to practice the craft on constructing CIEMs and get to encounter different construction methods and design approaches. They're not necessarily trying to "copy", as I believe the majority of companies do have the pride of creating their own products their own way, but doing reshells helps them encounter various issues that may arise in the development of their own products.

 

[MuZo2]

I guess most of the companies CIEM and IEM both big and small have very small technical teams. 5-20max. Most of these guys will be experienced in one area. Now the companies while designing cant put lot of effort & money into research on all factors example electronics, tubing, materials etc...
 So BA and dampers are from same company(Knowels & Sonion). Now if they can also provide standardized tubings and provide the data to their clients on length , diameter and responses etc. Certify electronic component providers. Then the designers at the IEM and CIEM companies have less factors to work with while designing a new IEM.

 

[tranhieu]

Quote:

I guess most of the companies CIEM and IEM both big and small have very small technical teams. 5-20max. Most of these guys will be experienced in one area. Now the companies while designing cant put lot of effort & money into research on all factors example electronics, tubing, materials etc...
 So BA and dampers are from same company(Knowels & Sonion). Now if they can also provide standardized tubings and provide the data to their clients on length , diameter and responses etc. Certify electronic component providers. Then the designers at the IEM and CIEM companies have less factors to work with while designing a new IEM.

There's no way you can standardize tubing specs since there're at least more than 10 types of tubing being used both in hearing aid and CIEM industry that I know of (and I doubt the number stops there). OEM-ing silicone tubing isn't something difficult and each company might as well contact their local supplier and each supplier has their own process for manufacturing, and it's very unlikely the manufacturer will share their recipe with their customers. At best you just know the type of silicone, the diameter, and wall thickness when going out shopping for tubing.

 

[eargasmik]

awesome interview but very short and where's the market going part 1 n 2 r not working 

 

[scrypt]

Quote:

Well, one thing that helps is that most of the source material --- acrylic, mounting glue, dampers, tubing, etc. comes from the same few suppliers for 98% of the companies around, so reshelling and getting it to be very close to the original is not as difficult as he might describe it to be, although it has its challenges. . . . At the end of the day, however, it is a question of branding --- the larger companies do not provide reshelling services because they want to be seen as their own entity. They also do not want the hassle of customer complaints of a reshell gone wrong; they'd rather focus on having their own products be as consistently made as possible.

 
Your POV is much depreciated (and I'm talking to Bernanke about that), but I'm not sure you've ex-pained reactions like Jerry Harvey's.  At this tincture, he has nothing to gain from insisting that a TF-10 should never be reshelled; UE isn't his company any more, yet he still says that reshells effectively destroy the original sound of the IEM he confected. 
 
You might well say, "O what tosh, O!, you avid piffler!," but I assure you, Sirrah, I tosh not.
 
On the nether hind, I do wish the esteemed Mr. Harvey would actually listen to a reshelled TF-10 before consigning it to hellokittyfire.

 

[goodvibes]

Quote:

There's no way you can standardize tubing specs since there're at least more than 10 types of tubing being used both in hearing aid and CIEM industry that I know of (and I doubt the number stops there). OEM-ing silicone tubing isn't something difficult and each company might as well contact their local supplier and each supplier has their own process for manufacturing, and it's very unlikely the manufacturer will share their recipe with their customers. At best you just know the type of silicone, the diameter, and wall thickness when going out shopping for tubing.

It's also worth pointing out that universals seldom use the type of tubing in customs and even if there is a molded pipe or metal insert it will be much shorter that what is possible in a custom. My personal opinion has always been that converting is a bad idea unless a company has already worked things out. It's still unlikely to sound identical.

 

[tomscy2000]

Quote:

  It's also worth pointing out that universals seldom use the type of tubing in customs and even if there is a molded pipe or metal insert it will be much shorter that what is possible in a custom. My personal opinion has always been that converting is a bad idea unless a company has already worked things out. It's still unlikely to sound identical.

 
Mmm, not necessarily. The distances are pretty much the same from spout to opening, provided the company does it the right way. It's just that acoustic silicone tubing behaves different from the plastic tubing in universals. But yes, it's unlikely that it'll sound identical, but it's not as difficult as one may think to get it to be 99% identical.

 

[bowei006]

The two 'Where the Market is going' links are not leading anywhere?

 

[MuZo2]

With BA crossovers they the suppliers always state not to use any inductors. Now in above we have seen that some capacitors can cause problems in high frequencies.
Now I wonder if hybrids can cause similar or other problems because of dynamic driver placed closed to BA because of speaker inductance ?