[Whitigir]

I agree! The 800s did orchestras better than ES-lab imo

 

[protoss]

@Whitigir
You really love your HD800 huh

 

[Whitigir]

@Whitigir
You really love your HD800 huh

Definitely do !! Took me a very and a very long time to decide between Stax VS 800S and which one was to kept. Made trips to canjam to scout around and so on … before settling down

I guess because I made peace’s with the compromises and the performances pros from HD800S. But really, beside being closed back Vs opened, the ES VS the 800S from my comparison, the 800s is more balanced for instruments genres, mainly as @paradoxper just said, the dynamism isn’t on similar level. Matter of fact, I am getting MDR Z1R again to just confirm that I remembered it right, the Z1R was darker, boomier, but never lacked that impacts, and when you accepted the dark signatures of Z1R, the tonal balances from within is actually quiet balanced and good

 

[protoss]

@Whitigir
I like the HD800 alot too. I owned about 6 of them. Now I just have 1, sad days

I personally think you will like AWKT, L5000, CD3000, Stellia, these headphones align with the HD800.
The Z1R is a funky headphone. I also like it, but for it funk sound.

 

[Whitigir]

@Whitigir
I like the HD800 alot too. I owned about 6 of them. Now I just have 1, sad days

I personally think you will like AWKT, L5000, CD3000, Stellia, these headphones align with the HD800.
The Z1R is a funky headphone. I also like it, but for it funk sound.

You are right! I did like the Stellia the whole lot, and it depends…I may have to buy it if I really do need a closed back headphones

 

[protoss]

It is sad that people don't know that Mighty Audio Technica created dozens of closed backs.
Some of them are top tier and are better than the Sony MDR R10! <-- yup, I said it.

Glory to the woodies! <-- not the full collection. The line is toooooooo long
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/audio-technica-the-master-of-wood.928704/

 

[Whitigir]

It is sad that people don't know that Mighty Audio Technica created dozens of closed backs.
Some of them are top tier and are better than the Sony MDR R10! <-- yup, I said it.

Glory to the woodies! <-- not the full collection. The line is toooooooo long
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/audio-technica-the-master-of-wood.928704/

What would you recommend me from ath newest line up ?

 

[protoss]

What would you recommend me from ath newest line up ?

The AWKT.
Audio Technica ATH AWKT
lol, mention it alot

 

[omega1990]

Es-r10 vs Hifiman he-r10d round 2 (featuring the Sony z1r)

Ok so as promised I would give the hifiman r10 a fair chance to compete now that it has been burned in. I’m also not going to be jumping around with my setup, its just going to be the cfa3 and Berkley dac so that way there will be nothing holding any headphone back. As a quick summary of the build, obviously for the he-r10d I stand by my previous comments. The build of the hifiman he-r10d is not acceptable at this price point. I would say that the es-r10 build is solid and sturdier than the hifiman r10, but the z1r is ahead of them both. The materials on the z1r is to me the most durable, and it’s pretty impressive to hold in person despite being the least flashy looking. All 3 are just about as efficient and easy to drive as one another. After looking again at the hifiman r10 and the es lab r10 I have noticed something. The hifiman r10’s cups are pretty different than the es labs one (see pics below). Beside the gap between the cups and the headphone frame of the es labs one, the es-r10 has a more pronounced angular cup. The angled cup on the he-r10d is less raised up and kind of blends into the cup more. For how fast any of them get hot on my head, the materials on the z1r make my head the warmest faster than the other 2 and shows the natural oils from my hair the most so I wipe the pads and headband when I’m done with the z1r. Both r10s take longer than the z1r for getting really warm on my head.

All that aside time for the sound. Now that I have spent time listening to the he-r10d after burn in I can say what I think this is. The he-r10d is hifiman’s attempt to not only capture the sound of the r10 but also improve upon it. Now I don’t mean this as a shock comment, what is mean is, while it generally sounds closest to the es-r10, there are things going on in the sound which led me to believe they have done what I think would modernize it (sort of). There seems to be more sub-bass on the he-r10d, but the es-r10 hits harder and has a crispier snap. The whole presentation of the he-r10d seems to have softer edges to notes than the es-r10. The he-r10d has no distortion and resonances are almost nonexistent. In fact, at times I almost thought I was getting stellia vibes (not a metallic sound mind you but a lifeless effect or maybe too clean). The he-r10d is an inoffensive sound and is the easiest to listen to of the three, but with that said it is the least likely to capture my attention. The z1r still has the biggest presence of bass and from the mid-range and treble the he-r10d strangely reminded me of the z1r (I think its due to control of distortion and resonance). Imaging is also similarly precise between the he-r10d and the z1r, but both the es-r10 and z1r have a somewhat better sense of depth and are a bit more holographic when compared the hifiman r10.

After some thinking about all this I wondered if my bias for the es-r10 was maybe because it is being advertised as a replica and the hifiman one is being advertised as a homage. I think it might have to do with my preference with the sound of the biocellulose driver in general as I was reminding myself of some of my zmf’s. I the think the he-r10d sounds the way it does because of the drivers. The es-r10, eikon, auteur and atrium all have biocellulose driver’s and all three had this more natural realistic effect their sound. The he-r10d has a hifiman made driver that while impressive that they were able to tune this driver to generally sound like the es-r10, it just isn’t the same. I think hifimans attempt to modernize the r10 gave up what made it special, like it no longer sounds like speakers on my head and more like an ordinary headphone. The unique lifelike rendition of stringed instruments that I hear on the es-r10 are gone on the he-r10d. and while the z1r is a colorless sounding headphone it is still more engaging than the he-r10d because I think it is not soft sounding to me.

The hifiman r10 seems to hint at a modernized r10 in that it has a cleaner more precise presentation than the es-r10 and trades mid-bass for more sub-bass presence, but it lacks the ability to capture my attention the way the es-r10 and z1r does. I would give the warning that just because you can get rid of distortion, this does not mean you have increased detail. To my ears, the hifiman he-r10d seems to pull about the same level of detail as the eikon, or possibly a hair more. In the case of the he-r10d, when I was listening to live recordings like when crowds cheer, whistle and scream the he-r10d seemed softer and bit dull leading to a less immersive experience. Members of the crowd sounded like they were more blended into one another when they cheered as opposed to the es-r10 and z1r which sound like each crowd member can be picked out. I think the he-r10d is a “great whistle while you work” headphone because it’s very light weight, has Bluetooth, and is inoffensive sounding. While I don’t listen to music while I work, I can imagine someone using this for that purpose. On low/moderate volume with the he-r10d you might believe you were listening to your music in an elevator in that it just plays music in the background never really grabbing your attention, so I think it would make a decent pick for a headphone you could use at work. Personally, I don’t like listening to music at work and just concentrate on my tasks for the day. When I listen to music, I view myself as an active listener, I don’t just want to hear music, I want to experience it and have my imagination run wild.

Overall, I think more thought should have been put into the he-r10d to realize a proper modern r10. Like they ended up on one hand solving issues of congestion and show that you could get decently close to what an r10 generally sounds like without using more expensive-higher quality materials, but in doing so created new challenges they could not overcome making it sound a bit less detailed, dull and a bit boring to listen to. These trades result in the he-r10d giving up what makes the es-r10 special to me and again makes it more of an ordinary run of the mill headphone.

Just to let you all know; I have little to no experience with the hifiman sound as this and the he6se v1 are the only headphones from this brand I have heard. I still want to hear the models people rave about the most like the Susvara, Shangri la’s and the He1000 line. So, I don’t want to come off as a hifiman hater. I am confident in thinking that even if the brand might not turn out to be for me, that I will at least acknowledge that they do the things they are praised for once I get the chance.

 

[Whitigir]

great comparison!

Expensive and higher quality materials ? Could you elaborate ? Until this very moment, I still don’t know who is the producer of ES Labs bio-cell drivers. I am almost certain that it wouldn’t be Fostex, because making 150-200 pairs don’t warranty you a custom made bio cell drivers from Fostex. Driver is most important in these stuff. I know that at least HFM used in house developed and produced drivers

 

[Terriero]

It is sad that people don't know that Mighty Audio Technica created dozens of closed backs.
Some of them are top tier and are better than the Sony MDR R10! <-- yup, I said it.

Glory to the woodies! <-- not the full collection. The line is toooooooo long
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/audio-technica-the-master-of-wood.928704/

You should share some of those headphones with us, poor boys... Rental service?

 

[omega1990]

great comparison!

Expensive and higher quality materials ? Could you elaborate ? Until this very moment, I still don’t know who is the producer of ES Labs bio-cell drivers. I am almost certain that it wouldn’t be Fostex, because making 150-200 pairs don’t warranty you a custom made bio cell drivers from Fostex. Driver is most important in these stuff. I know that at least HFM used in house developed and produced drivers

Hmm... while I don't know the exact cost to making either headphone, I mean this relative to my impressions of what the hifiman r10 might cost in overall build. From what I've read and have been listening to, the sony r10 or in my case the es-r10's sound is achieved by combining carefully picked components like zelkova wood which together add to make what I believe is a costlier product to make. I'm only assuming that using exotic parts like the wood and the efforts that went into overall construction to me appear to be a costlier process. I'm not saying it's using the finest components in the world, but compared to the he-r10d it looks and feels more substantial.

The he-r10d on the other hand is a cheap build taken to the next level. I have the impression that the drivers sound capable enough that hifiman can generally be as cheap as they want on the overall build without sacrificing much on sound. In this case, I think the he-r10d is arguing that if you can innovate on the driver aspect well enough, the materials that house it no matter how cheap won't get in the way of the desired sound.

If the es-r10 is impressive for how all the parts work together to achieve its goal in sound, then the he-r10d does show in way that the driver can do almost all the work and at least attempt-but not truly-overcome any challenges that arise from whatever parts they throw together. However, from my point of view as a customer that bought both, I feel my money was well spent on the es-r10, but I feel that my audio technica m40x is more expensive to make than the he-r10d. If you showed me the he-r10d and m40x together and then showed me their prices I would've thought you were trying to pull off some kind of prank.

 

[frank2908]

I auditioned the he-r10d and to me, after comparing to hd800, focal clear and celestee, the cup resonance is quite obvious, and to me just a tad more than z1r. However it is the less than the es-r10. Is the resonance that much in comparison?

 

[rzy6cn]

It is sad that people don't know that Mighty Audio Technica created dozens of closed backs.
Some of them are top tier and are better than the Sony MDR R10! <-- yup, I said it.

Glory to the woodies! <-- not the full collection. The line is toooooooo long
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/audio-technica-the-master-of-wood.928704/

 

[rzy6cn]

Es-r10 vs Hifiman he-r10d round 2 (featuring the Sony z1r)

Ok so as promised I would give the hifiman r10 a fair chance to compete now that it has been burned in. I’m also not going to be jumping around with my setup, its just going to be the cfa3 and Berkley dac so that way there will be nothing holding any headphone back. As a quick summary of the build, obviously for the he-r10d I stand by my previous comments. The build of the hifiman he-r10d is not acceptable at this price point. I would say that the es-r10 build is solid and sturdier than the hifiman r10, but the z1r is ahead of them both. The materials on the z1r is to me the most durable, and it’s pretty impressive to hold in person despite being the least flashy looking. All 3 are just about as efficient and easy to drive as one another. After looking again at the hifiman r10 and the es lab r10 I have noticed something. The hifiman r10’s cups are pretty different than the es labs one (see pics below). Beside the gap between the cups and the headphone frame of the es labs one, the es-r10 has a more pronounced angular cup. The angled cup on the he-r10d is less raised up and kind of blends into the cup more. For how fast any of them get hot on my head, the materials on the z1r make my head the warmest faster than the other 2 and shows the natural oils from my hair the most so I wipe the pads and headband when I’m done with the z1r. Both r10s take longer than the z1r for getting really warm on my head.

All that aside time for the sound. Now that I have spent time listening to the he-r10d after burn in I can say what I think this is. The he-r10d is hifiman’s attempt to not only capture the sound of the r10 but also improve upon it. Now I don’t mean this as a shock comment, what is mean is, while it generally sounds closest to the es-r10, there are things going on in the sound which led me to believe they have done what I think would modernize it (sort of). There seems to be more sub-bass on the he-r10d, but the es-r10 hits harder and has a crispier snap. The whole presentation of the he-r10d seems to have softer edges to notes than the es-r10. The he-r10d has no distortion and resonances are almost nonexistent. In fact, at times I almost thought I was getting stellia vibes (not a metallic sound mind you but a lifeless effect or maybe too clean). The he-r10d is an inoffensive sound and is the easiest to listen to of the three, but with that said it is the least likely to capture my attention. The z1r still has the biggest presence of bass and from the mid-range and treble the he-r10d strangely reminded me of the z1r (I think its due to control of distortion and resonance). Imaging is also similarly precise between the he-r10d and the z1r, but both the es-r10 and z1r have a somewhat better sense of depth and are a bit more holographic when compared the hifiman r10.

After some thinking about all this I wondered if my bias for the es-r10 was maybe because it is being advertised as a replica and the hifiman one is being advertised as a homage. I think it might have to do with my preference with the sound of the biocellulose driver in general as I was reminding myself of some of my zmf’s. I the think the he-r10d sounds the way it does because of the drivers. The es-r10, eikon, auteur and atrium all have biocellulose driver’s and all three had this more natural realistic effect their sound. The he-r10d has a hifiman made driver that while impressive that they were able to tune this driver to generally sound like the es-r10, it just isn’t the same. I think hifimans attempt to modernize the r10 gave up what made it special, like it no longer sounds like speakers on my head and more like an ordinary headphone. The unique lifelike rendition of stringed instruments that I hear on the es-r10 are gone on the he-r10d. and while the z1r is a colorless sounding headphone it is still more engaging than the he-r10d because I think it is not soft sounding to me.

The hifiman r10 seems to hint at a modernized r10 in that it has a cleaner more precise presentation than the es-r10 and trades mid-bass for more sub-bass presence, but it lacks the ability to capture my attention the way the es-r10 and z1r does. I would give the warning that just because you can get rid of distortion, this does not mean you have increased detail. To my ears, the hifiman he-r10d seems to pull about the same level of detail as the eikon, or possibly a hair more. In the case of the he-r10d, when I was listening to live recordings like when crowds cheer, whistle and scream the he-r10d seemed softer and bit dull leading to a less immersive experience. Members of the crowd sounded like they were more blended into one another when they cheered as opposed to the es-r10 and z1r which sound like each crowd member can be picked out. I think the he-r10d is a “great whistle while you work” headphone because it’s very light weight, has Bluetooth, and is inoffensive sounding. While I don’t listen to music while I work, I can imagine someone using this for that purpose. On low/moderate volume with the he-r10d you might believe you were listening to your music in an elevator in that it just plays music in the background never really grabbing your attention, so I think it would make a decent pick for a headphone you could use at work. Personally, I don’t like listening to music at work and just concentrate on my tasks for the day. When I listen to music, I view myself as an active listener, I don’t just want to hear music, I want to experience it and have my imagination run wild.

Overall, I think more thought should have been put into the he-r10d to realize a proper modern r10. Like they ended up on one hand solving issues of congestion and show that you could get decently close to what an r10 generally sounds like without using more expensive-higher quality materials, but in doing so created new challenges they could not overcome making it sound a bit less detailed, dull and a bit boring to listen to. These trades result in the he-r10d giving up what makes the es-r10 special to me and again makes it more of an ordinary run of the mill headphone.

Just to let you all know; I have little to no experience with the hifiman sound as this and the he6se v1 are the only headphones from this brand I have heard. I still want to hear the models people rave about the most like the Susvara, Shangri la’s and the He1000 line. So, I don’t want to come off as a hifiman hater. I am confident in thinking that even if the brand might not turn out to be for me, that I will at least acknowledge that they do the things they are praised for once I get the chance.

I would say Hifiman R10 (either dynamic or planar version) has no relationship with original R10 at all. Not to mention the cheap $5 woodcup, the sound is not similar to original at all. Hifiman do make good headphones like Susvara and HD1000 etc, but the R10 series is a joke and they are so overpriced.

ESR10 on the other hand, is trying to achieve the original sound of SONY R10. I wouldn’t say it 100% achieved that but at least their tuning style is so similar and the difference is marginal without a very good amp. I can’t tell the difference when using the headphone jack of WEISS DAC202, but when I use EC Studio B with HE1 preamp the difference is noticeable. But still they sounds quite similar.