[protoss]

@rsbrsvp
I'm not sure why you are hesitant. If there was a 2022 R10 that cost $8000 you would buy. But because it's 30 years old you won't.

The Es R10 is $1500 and claims to be 80% to the OG, why are people on the fence? Somewhat makes no sense.

Next question is, is this better than Denon 9200? Or Audio-Technica AWKT? Most likely not. Or it can be slightly better.

You mention dynamic drivers. Here is list.

Sony Z1R
Denon 9200
Audio technica AWKT
HD820
And of course the ES R10

 

[Ciggavelli]

@rsbrsvp
I'm not sure why you are hesitant. If there was a 2022 R10 that cost $8000 you would buy. But because it's 30 years old you won't.

The Es R10 is $1500 and claims to be 80% to the OG, why are people on the fence? Somewhat makes no sense.

Next question is, is this better than Denon 9200? Or Audio-Technica AWKT? Most likely not. Or it can be slightly better.

You mention dynamic drivers. Here is list.

Sony Z1R
Denon 9200
Audio technica AWKT
HD820
And of course the ES R10

I agree. The price is less than I would have expected. I have high hopes for the ES-R10, and will directly compare it to my TOTL cans, as well as the th900mk2 and he-r10p

 

[omega1990]

A few more tracks to demo the es-r10 with. I did find two tracks that sounded great on this headphone (released under sony's label)

Violin Concerto in E Major, BWV 1042: I. Allegro from the album Bach Brandenburg Concertos


People have praised the r10 for how it plays strings and this would be a quick way to test it out.

Also heard another track under the sony label: harmony hall by vampire weekend
A good track to fill out the size of its stage. The somewhat diffuse bass plays well with it and sounds big.

Also playing the self titled album Fleet Foxes made the es-r10 sound pretty big.

The song Rotten Decay by BADBADNOTGOOD
This track did show a 3d effect to fast playing drums. This is not a bass cannon headphone, but the bass that's there sounds good and exciting to me.

Lastly the piece "Caravan" from the Whiplash movie soundtrack I feel is worth a mention.

 

[omega1990]

Since people keep bringing up the th900, I decided to compare my th900 mk2 limited pearl white (has over 200hrs on it) to the es-r10 which still has under 10 hrs. While I would prefer to do it later I'll go ahead provide some of my thoughts now.

My th900 is the limited version, it was supposed to be tuned to calm down the v shape tuning for something more balanced. While I have not heard the original th900, after living with the limited version, I am still going to sell it. It does have impressive subbass presence and hits hard but its treble, voices, and anything that has a metallic quality on it stings my ears. Even after burn in the th900 is very hot up top. I wince in a bit of pain when I hear cymbals crash on these.

So for the es-r10, due to its stage size, the subbass is weaker by a very noticable amount. However once you hear everything else, the th900 seems a bit primitive in comparison. The es-r10 has similar impact so almost the same dynamic punch, but since the bass is diffuse it may not appear the same at first. The th900 will sustain a larger rumbling focused bass.

The th900 is a fine headphone for people who want to have rumbling subbass, but once you pass the bass its a no contest. The presentation technicalites of the es-r10 is of a higher level. It does things the th900 wish it could do. The es-r10 allows the listener to hear cymbals with all its splash without ever once stinging my ears. Treble in general pulls off a similar pristine delicacy of an estat (its so effortless). The estat feeling is further emphasized when listing to opera music or classical music in general. Vocals on the th900 are forward and present, but the es-r10 has more detail behind them (has crystal clarity). With the es-r10 you can hear greater clarity and air in the singers breath. The th900 has so much grain in the midrange which is not present on the es-r10. Grain appears non existent on the es-r10 and vocals in classical have added euphonics and realism to it sounding more natural. The Th900s midrange is just not impressive in comparison.

For soundstage and imaging I'll tell you a quick mention of my he6se. When I first got it I did not think much of it, until I hooked it up to my emotiva BasX A-100. Once it was hooked up and powered by the amps 50 watts, everything on the he6se became bigger and reminded me more of speakers. The es-r10 presents a similar effect and sounds more like speakers, but it doesn't need a speaker amp to do it. Right out my burson amp it can already present images that are not only much larger than the th900 but there is more space and air between the sounds. If you play tracks that have a more holographic feel to them the es-r10 will show its strength. While the th900 has a much more closed soundstage and air that has been sucked out, at least the images are focused sounding so it is engaging but again fatiguing. The es-r10 is engaging and the air and holographic effects have a more 3d feel to them. I suppose the th900 has some semblance of its timbre to the es-r10 since they both use biocellulose drivers, but the es-r10 is superior in everyway outside the bass.

The th900 is a headphone that sounds like one to, the es-r10 is headphone that sounds more like speakers in a room. It may not be a perfect KO against the th900, but again outside the bass region which are more different than anything else in their own isolated comparison, its a landslide win for the es-r10 on everything else from mids to treble to stage to imaging to vocals-you name it.

 

[rsbrsvp]

@rsbrsvp
I'm not sure why you are hesitant. If there was a 2022 R10 that cost $8000 you would buy. But because it's 30 years old you won't.

The Es R10 is $1500 and claims to be 80% to the OG, why are people on the fence? Somewhat makes no sense.

Next question is, is this better than Denon 9200? Or Audio-Technica AWKT? Most likely not. Or it can be slightly better.

You mention dynamic drivers. Here is list.

Sony Z1R
Denon 9200
Audio technica AWKT
HD820
And of course the ES R10

I'm not on the fence at all about the ES-R10. I bought it two days ago. I am curious how it will compare to the OG and also to the best closed backs in current production. My hunch is also that it will not be as incredible as the OG- but pretty close. My hunch is also that it will be ranked very very high against the best closed backs of today. I have been waiting 10 years for this- at least. I thought of this idea long ago. Copy the greatest headphone ever made. Why not?- the patent expired. This move by ES was ingenious. I wish they would have gone the last 20% and used the exact same driver materials even though they are hard to manufacture. I would have happily paid $1000 more for it. But, this is what there is- so let it be. What Hifiman did was not what I wanted. They did not reverse engineer their R10. They modified it substantially. The OG did not use planner magnetic technology so the R10P is no copy. It is aesthetically similar to the OG in a general sense and sonically not related at all. Here we are supposed to have close to100% physical duplicate and 80% sonic duplicate. I am positive that if ES would have used the exact same driver material and made a 100% sonic duplicate to the OG as well that they would have sold thousands of these in a very short time even for an extra $1,000.

 

[rsbrsvp]

Since people keep bringing up the th900, I decided to compare my th900 mk2 limited pearl white (has over 200hrs on it) to the es-r10 which still has under 10 hrs. While I would prefer to do it later I'll go ahead provide some of my thoughts now.

My th900 is the limited version, it was supposed to be tuned to calm down the v shape tuning for something more balanced. While I have not heard the th900 original, after living with the limited version, I am still going to sell it. It does have impressive subbass presence and hits hard but its treble, voices, and anything that has a metallic quality on it stings my ears. Even after burn in the th900 is very hot up top. I wince in a bit of pain when I hear cymbals crash on these.

So the es-r10, due to its stage size the subbass is weaker by a very noticable amount. However once you hear everything else, the th900 seems a bit primitive in comparison. The es-r10 has similar impact so almost the same dynamic punch, but since the bass is diffuse it may not appear the same at first. The th900 will sustain a larger rumbling focused bass.

The th900 is fine headphone for people who want to have rumbling subbass, but once you pass the bass its a no contest. The presentation technicalites of the es-r10 is of a higher level. It does things the th900 wish it could do. The es-r10 allows the listener to hear cymbals with all its splash without ever once stinging my ears. Treble in general pulls off a similar pristine delicacy of an estat (its so effortless). The estat feeling is further emphasize when listing to opera music or classical music in general. Vocals on the th900 are forward and present, but the es-r10 has more detail behind them (has crystal clarity). With the es-r10 you can hear greater clarity and air in the singers breath. The th900 has so much grain in the midrange which is not present on the es-r10. Grain appears non existent on the es-r10 and vocals in classical have added euphonics and realism to it sounding more natural. Th900 midrange just not impressive in comparison.

For soundstage and imaging I'll tell you a quick mention of my he6se. When I first got it I did not think much of it, until I hooked it up to my emotiva BasX A-100. Once it was hooked up and powered by the amps 50 watts, everything on the he6se became bigger and reminded me more of speakers. The es-r10 presents a similar effect and sounds more like speakers, but it doesn't need a speaker amp to do it. Right out my burson amp it already can present images that are not only much larger than the th900 but there is more space and air between the sounds. If you play tracks that have a more holographic feel to them the es-r10 will show its strength. While the th900 has a much more closed soundstage and air that has been sucked out, at least the images are focused sounding so it is engaging but again fatiguing. The es-r10 is engaging and the air and holographic effects have a more 3d feel to them. I suppose the th900 has some semblance of its timbre to the es-r10 since they both use biocellulose drivers, but the es-r10 is superior in everyway outside the bass.

The th900 is a headphone that sounds like one to, the es-r10 is headphone that sounds more like speakers in a room. It may not be a perfect KO against the th900, but again outside the bass region which are more different than anything else in the own isolated comparison, its a landslide win for the es-r10 on everything else from mids to treble to stage to imaging to vocals-you name it.

Excellent report. Sounds almost exactly how I would have compared the OG (which I owned years ago) to the TH-900 (which I owned as well). Get 100 hours of burn-in on those ES-R10 drivers and the comparison will be much worse for the TH-900.....

 

[protoss]

I wish they would have gone the last 20% and used the exact same driver materials even though they are hard to manufacture

It's not only the drivers. It's also the notorious foam ring too. That particular sony foam was pretty important.

I'm pretty sure the earpads are not 100% original also.

 

[rsbrsvp]

It's not only the drivers. It's also the notorious foam ring too. That particular sony foam was pretty important.

I'm pretty sure the earpads are not 100% original also.

ES labs told me their R-10 is sonically 80%-90% the same as the MDR-R10 and that MOST of the difference is due to the drivers not being exactly the same. I'm just repeating their own words.

 

[protoss]

Yes I also talked to them too. And I'm pretty sure 100s others too by now. This is a important headphone.

Back to the foam. It's actually very important. That's why they specifically mention it in the pamphlet they released.

 

[kiling92]

Yes I also talked to them too. And I'm pretty sure 100s others too by now. This is a important headphone.

Back to the foam. It's actually very important. That's why they specifically mention it in the pamphlet they released.

How's possible your r10 have this foam in this condition?great!mine was destroyed..and as you said the foam in the r10 is fundamental for the sound..i just bought tue foam replica from eslabs.hope it works as the original

 

[protoss]

Need to be place in box with moisture package and kept well maintained.
It varies between R10s. Goodluck with the foam.

 

[Haidar]

@omega1990 Could you please share some of your thoughts on how the ES-R10 compares to the Atticus, and let us know which pads you have on your Atticus?
Thanks for starting this thread!

 

[omega1990]

@omega1990 Could you please share some of your thoughts on how the ES-R10 compares to the Atticus, and let us know which pads you have on your Atticus?
Thanks for starting this thread!

Sure, I can compare my Atticus using lambskin ori pads. While I have both the 2k copper and verite silver cables from zmf, for consistency I will use the verite silver cable as when I compared Atticus to the hifiman he-r10d.

Before I start I need to let you all know my bias is toward zmf as that is my favorite headphone brand. I own all of their dynamic headphones in African Blackwood and own a second verite, verite closed and Atticus in a wood other than blackwood. My favorite headphone throughout my entire audiophile journey has always been and continues to be the zmf aeolus. With that said I do not consider myself irrationaly affectionate about my favorite brand. What I mean is that while I always favor the zmf sound I feel I will not lie if a different headphone does something better than my favorite headphones (I still recommend pulling out your salt in case of anything).

So to start things off both headphones are excellent examples of how different woods benefit their respective sound signatures. The African blackwood is a unique wood used on musical instruments and since Zach of zmf is influenced by guitars, think of the use of wood on a zmf to be of a similar nature to using blackwood on a guitar. This specific wood doesn't suffer from the same downsides of other tone woods. In a nuanced way this wood helps the warm bassy sound of the Atticus overcome a sense of muddiness. The backgrounds are very black like a planar.

As for the es-r10 the zelkova wood is used for taiko drums in Japan. The lighter hardness helps its airy brighter sound signature. Taiko drums are inspired by the sound of thunder which probably explains why the bass initially hits hard in a way that it may cause you to have an almost deer in the headlight look. But just like thunder the effect disappears fast, so as mentioned before weaker subbass. Part of me feels the wood is helping this headphone sound bright without the common assumed downfalls of being bright. Like when people hear the word bright they think hd800 or ultrasone edition 10 bright in that it means it will hurt your ears. As mentioned in my previous posts about how good the treble is, the es-r10 is bright done right at least to my ears.

So while the Atticus sounds pretty clean because of its black background, the es-r10 sounds clean like in a way that reminds me of my stax headphones. Different takes on clean backgrounds.

The Atticus is very much warmer, thicker, and darker than the es-r10. Midrange is magical on both and whatever each is lacking they perform in a tastful manner as not to offend the listener in what they might lack. The es-r10's weaker subbass to me is forgivable because of the excitement caused by the initial snappy on occasion thunderous impact. The Atticus's darker treble is forgivable because the black background helps prevent the bassy warmer sound from every truly covering the mids and treble.

The obvious advantage of the es-r10 is that its stage is wider by a noticable bit and deeper by an even greater degree. The Atticus sound stage is intended to capture the feeling of being on the stage with the band, so an intimate presentation vs being in a room effect of the es-r10.

Difference in detail is a little tricky to me in this case as sometimes its easy to be fooled in cases of brighter headphones. Sometimes we are misled by brighter sounds making us think the music is more detailed, but I think the es-r10 does play music with a higher resolution and is noticeably more detailed. So when I hear for example a string plucked on a guitar with the es-r10, the sound conveys more vibrations resonating off the guitar vs the Atticus. Distant sounds had a bit more texture to them. The es-r10 in detail retrieval does remind me of the raw detail extraction found in an hd800 but without the hd800 treble peaks.

I think due to the nature of the es-r10 it would be wise of me to simply jump to the verite closed and stellia so as to confirm possible limitations of the es-r10's technical capabilities but to also use the verite closed and stellia as a reference for further dissecting the uniqueness of the es-r10's soundstage.

The es-r10 does sound like it plays on a higher level than the Atticus and since they are both on opposite ends of the sound signature scale, the es-r10 is showing signs of becoming a wonderful compliment to my zmf collection. The es-r10 has a completely different sound signature and presentation, but like my zmf's, the es-r10 sounds like a headphone to enjoy your music without sounding more analytical despite the es-r10 having a more reference like sound.

Another warning is that since I have been the only voice for impressions at this time, the es-r10 that @Ciggavelli bought can't come soon enough. I'm sure that he will have a pretty different set of tastes than me and should be fully vocal if his reactions may turn out to be very different than me to help the direction of this thread. I like to think that having more voices helps audiophiles figure out patterns in what is being described so that more concrete understandings of a headphone can form.

 

[rsbrsvp]

Sure, I can compare my Atticus using lambskin ori pads. While I have both the 2k copper and verite silver cables from zmf, for consistency I will use the verite silver cable as when I compared Atticus to the hifiman he-r10d.

Before I start I need to let you all know my bias is toward zmf as that is my favorite headphone brand. I own all of their dynamic headphones in African Blackwood and own a second verite, verite closed and Atticus in a wood other than blackwood. My favorite headphone throughout my entire audiophile journey has always been and continues to be the zmf aeolus. With that said I do not consider myself irrationaly affectionate about my favorite brand. What I mean is that while I always favor the zmf sound I feel I will not lie if a different headphone does something better than my favorite headphones (I still recommend pulling out your salt in case of anything).

So to start things off both headphones are excellent examples of how different woods benefit their respective sound signatures. The African blackwood is a unique wood used on musical instruments and since Zach of zmf is influenced by guitars, think of the use of wood on a zmf to be of a similar nature to using blackwood on a guitar. This specific wood doesn't suffer from the same downsides of other tone woods. In a nuanced way this wood helps the warm bassy sound of the Atticus overcome a sense of muddiness. The backgrounds are very black like a planar.

As for the es-r10 the zelkova wood is used for taiko drums in Japan. The lighter hardness helps its airy brighter sound signature. Taiko drums are inspired by the sound of thunder which probably explains why the bass initially hits hard in a way that it may cause you to have an almost deer in the headlight look. But just like thunder the effect disappears fast, so as mentioned before weaker subbass. Part of me feels the wood is helping this headphone sound bright without the common assumed downfalls of being bright. Like when people hear the word bright they think hd800 or ultrasone edition 10 bright in that it means it will hurt your ears. As mentioned in my previous posts about how good the treble is, the es-r10 is bright done right at least ot my ears.

So while the Atticus sounds pretty clean because of its black background, the es-r10 sounds clean like in a way that reminds me of my stax headphones. Different takes on clean backgrounds.

The Atticus is very much warmer, thicker, and darker than the es-r10. Midrange is magical on both and whatever each is lacking they perform in a tastful manner as not to offend the listener in what they might lack. The es-r10's weaker subbass to me is forgivable because of the excitement caused by the initial snappy on occasion thunderous impact. The Atticus's darker treble is forgivable because the black background helps prevent the bassy warmer sound from every truly covering the mids and treble.

The obvious advantage of the es-r10 is that its stage is wider by a noticable bit but deeper by an even greater degree. The Atticus sound stage is intended to capture the feeling of being on the stage with the band, so an intimate presentation vs being in a room effect of the es-r10.

Difference in detail is a little tricky to me in this case as sometimes its easy to be fooled in cases of brighter headphones. Sometimes we are misled by brighter sounds making us think the music is more detailed, but I think the es-r10 does play music with a higher resolution and is noticeably more detailed. So when I hear for example a string plucked on a guitar with the es-r10, the sound conveys more vibrations resonating off the guitar vs the Atticus. Distant sounds had a bit more texture to them. The es-r10 in detail retrieval does remind me of the raw detail extraction found in an hd800 but without the hd800 treble peaks.

I think due to the nature of the es-r10 it would be wise of me to simply jump to the verite closed and stellia so as to confirm possible limitations of the es-r10's technical capabilities but to also use the verite closed and stellia as a reference for further dissecting the uniqueness of the es-r10's soundstage.

The es-r10 does sound like it plays on a higher level than the Atticus and since they are both on opposite ends of the sound signature scale, the es-r10 is showing signs of becoming a wonderful compliment to my zmf collection. The es-r10 has a completely different sound signature and presentation, but like my zmf's, the es-r10 sounds like a headphone to enjoy your music without sounding more analytical despite the es-r10 having a more reference like sound.

Another warning is that since I have been the only voice for impressions at this time, the es-r10 that @Ciggavelli bought can't come soon enough. I'm sure that he will have a pretty different set of tastes than me and should be fully vocal if his reactions may turn out to be very different than me to help the direction of this thread. I like to think that having more voices helps audiophiles figure out patterns in what is being described so that more concrete understandings of a headphone can form.

Again- this sounds in a general sense like the MDR-R10 which had a brighter (in a good way) signature and had that magical 3D room effect that other closed headphones could match, and which did not have an overly thick sound, but not thin either. Good news so far.

Descriptions like "unique soundstage" are on the spot MDR-R10 descriptions. In fact, I would say that "unique soundstage" is one of the hallmark uniqueness of the MDR-R10 which I owned 15 years ago which made it different than anything I ever heard. "Weaker bass but snappy and thunderous impact at times" also sounds classic MDR-R10 which was known for having OK bass at best but focusing on midrange and treble much more. "clean" is also a very fitting description for the MDR-R10. Good news....

 

[rsbrsvp]

omega 1990; would you say the ES-R10 is "euphonic" sounding? This was also perhaps one of the hallmark baseline descriptions of the MDR-R10.

Also, how is the instrument separation? I would say the MDR-R10 excelled in this area very very much to my memmory.