[lan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gatticus /img/forum/go_quote.gif Opinions differ so much when it comes to audio. I'm beginning to think audio quality is a black art and purely a matter of personal prefernce and not a science at all because there is a person on these forums who claims the EMU 0404 USB sounds better than both a $1000.00 and $20000.00 DAC he had and that's with HD650's using the EMU 0404 amp too. <shrug>

Sensory perception is mostly a matter of preference.

Audio quality is sort of a black art IMO though. There are infinite ways to tweak something. As a canvas, you can make changes here and there and the final outcome could be quite drastic.

 

[iliketuna]

the 0404's amp isnt loud enough for some of you guys?? holy crap man, how loud do you guys listen?! be careful with your ears, you only get one pair!

 

[sejarzo]

Quote:

Originally Posted by iliketuna /img/forum/go_quote.gif the 0404's amp isnt loud enough for some of you guys?? holy crap man, how loud do you guys listen?! be careful with your ears, you only get one pair!

There have been a number of threads on this topic. I'm an engineer that works in loud production facilities, and we use earplugs all the time for sustained 85 dB or greater noise levels--so I am well aware of the need for hearing conservation, and SPL's that are hazardous.

I listen to a mostly orchestral and chamber music, some jazz, but not contemporary rock. There may be 95 to 100 dB peaks, but my average listening level is far less than what is experienced in live orchestral performances.

Even some pop/rock that is acoustic by nature is mastered very hot and overly compressed compared to classical. Norah Jones's discs, for instance.......on my speaker rig, 2 o'clock is my standard position for almost all classical, but I'm not comfortable listening above 10 o'clock at the most on her discs.....probably at 15 db less gain than on classical.

Note, too, that I use HD600's most of the time, and when I use HD280's, the 0404 is way more than loud enough. Headphone sensitivities are all over the place.

 

[mypasswordis]

Quote:

Originally Posted by iliketuna /img/forum/go_quote.gif the 0404's amp isnt loud enough for some of you guys?? holy crap man, how loud do you guys listen?! be careful with your ears, you only get one pair!

What do you have the volume set to using your HD650?

And I agree with sejarzo on the difference in volume between pop/rock and classical.

EDIT
Good to see you again, sejarzo. So this is where you've been hanging out.

 

[SR-71Panorama]

To the owners of 0404 USB: Can you compare it to the M-Audio Transit, in terms of sound quality (I don't care about amplification; I have an sr71 for that).
Anyone who has heard both. I am wondering if it would be beneficial to upgrade to the Emu from M-Audio. I use headphones, but also plan on running Zu Audio Tone monitors. I currently run the cheap best buy insignia speakers.
I have also considered the new Benchmark USB dac. The lack of usb in the old one deterred me. I have to have usb, all my listening is done at the computer.
My gut tells me there is probably only a negligible audible difference between the EMU and M-Audio, despite the many additional features of the EMU.

I use HD650, but may add W5000 at a later point, or if Im lucky, Qualia 010, but not likely on the sony
Thanks.

 

[sejarzo]

IMHO, the 0404 USB is in another league entirely from the Transit. Heard both on my system, with HD600's and MS-1's.......and I think that the difference is huge, using a maxed home PIMETA between the USB boxes and the phones.

And if you are concerned about speaker listening, too......the increase in detail between listening to CD's in my Musical Fidelity CD-Pre24>IRD MB100 monoblocks>Paradigm Studio 40v3's versus FLAC's of those CD's>Foobar (SSRC upsampling to 88.2k)>0404 USB>MB100's>40v3's is remarkable, too. And that MF piece has been generally regarded as no slouch in the DAC department, you know?

 

[Gatticus]

Why do you upsample to 88.2?

 

[iliketuna]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mypasswordis /img/forum/go_quote.gif What do you have the volume set to using your HD650?

9:30 to 10 o'clock for most music, 12 to 1 o'clock for classical

 

[Ahriman4891]

Quote:

Originally Posted by iliketuna /img/forum/go_quote.gif 9:30 to 10 o'clock for most music, 12 to 1 o'clock for classical

Same here for HD 580s. For A900LTDs, it's usu. 8:30-9:30.

 

[sejarzo]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gatticus /img/forum/go_quote.gif Why do you upsample to 88.2?

That might be two questions, so I will answer both!

Why upsample at all? Seems to increase the smoothness of the highs a bit, but it very well could be a placebo effect.

Why 88.2k? I might be wrong on what the algorithm does, but think about it this way.....if the native sampling rate is 44.1k, upsampling to 88.2k can be achieved by a simple interpolation of the existing data (just add one sample that is the average of the adjacent samples.) That's not likely to create large errors in reconstruction of the original analog waveform.

However, for an algorithm to produce a 96k data stream from 44.1k source data, there simply must be a lot more computation involved. My understanding is that there are significantly different approaches to doing that conversion, each with different results.

I can see a difference in my CPU usage between the two rates, and while it varies, 88.2k always uses less CPU.

 

[SR-71Panorama]

Quote:

Originally Posted by sejarzo /img/forum/go_quote.gif IMHO, the 0404 USB is in another league entirely from the Transit. Heard both on my system, with HD600's and MS-1's.......and I think that the difference is huge, using a maxed home PIMETA between the USB boxes and the phones. And if you are concerned about speaker listening, too......the increase in detail between listening to CD's in my Musical Fidelity CD-Pre24>IRD MB100 monoblocks>Paradigm Studio 40v3's versus FLAC's of those CD's>Foobar (SSRC upsampling to 88.2k)>0404 USB>MB100's>40v3's is remarkable, too. And that MF piece has been generally regarded as no slouch in the DAC department, you know?

Wow. That it interesting. To be clear, you think the Emu setup is more detailed than your MF setup, correct? If so, I think you just sold me

I also like the form factor of the Emu to the Transit. It is big enough so that when larger stiff cables are attached, they won't send the unit spiraling onto its side, a problem I have with the transit, solved only with velcro.

Looks like I can't think of any reasons to stay with the transit. Now the only think Im debating is saving up for a dac1 usb or stick with this EMU. There is a world of price difference, but who knows? The dac1 would have to have another huge improvement over EMU for me spending that amount of scratch.

 

[Gatticus]

Quote:

Originally Posted by sejarzo /img/forum/go_quote.gif That might be two questions, so I will answer both! Why upsample at all? Seems to increase the smoothness of the highs a bit, but it very well could be a placebo effect. Why 88.2k? I might be wrong on what the algorithm does, but think about it this way.....if the native sampling rate is 44.1k, upsampling to 88.2k can be achieved by a simple interpolation of the existing data (just add one sample that is the average of the adjacent samples.) That's not likely to create large errors in reconstruction of the original analog waveform. However, for an algorithm to produce a 96k data stream from 44.1k source data, there simply must be a lot more computation involved. My understanding is that there are significantly different approaches to doing that conversion, each with different results. I can see a difference in my CPU usage between the two rates, and while it varies, 88.2k always uses less CPU.

OK, seems plausible but I can't hear a difference myself between 44.1khz and 96khz. I'll have to try it out again and listen very closely this time.

 

[sejarzo]

Quote:

Originally Posted by SR-71Panorama /img/forum/go_quote.gif Wow. That it interesting. To be clear, you think the Emu setup is more detailed than your MF setup, correct? If so, I think you just sold me I also like the form factor of the Emu to the Transit. It is big enough so that when larger stiff cables are attached, they won't send the unit spiraling onto its side, a problem I have with the transit, solved only with velcro. Looks like I can't think of any reasons to stay with the transit. Now the only think Im debating is saving up for a dac1 usb or stick with this EMU. There is a world of price difference, but who knows? The dac1 would have to have another huge improvement over EMU for me spending that amount of scratch.

Yes, there is more detail to be heard from the 0404 USB chain versus the MF. The sound of bows on strings is the most obvious difference.

Why might this be so? First, the MF isn't that old, but DAC technology is moving much faster than the other componentry. Next, when listening on speakers with the 0404 USB, there is no potential impact from vibration on a transport/CD system.......but I'd put my money on the AKM DAC being the bigger factor by far.

Maybe the pro audio folks who actually listen to and record the live music, whose gear has often used AKM DAC's when the "audiophile community" has been ga-ga over BB/Crystal/Wolfson do know something about sound, perhaps?

I had considered buying a DAC1 and using my Pioneer multiformat player as a transport before buying the CD-Pre24, but the Pioneer is sort of slow when switching tracks, etc. And before I was even thinking of something like the 0404 USB (or even back into headphones), I thought that I might want to run S/PDIF from a PC or notebook to my speaker system, and the CD-Pre24 has all sorts of digital in/out capability.

Almost ashamed to admit that I have not listened to a CD on the CD-Pre24 this whole year......if I get a new disc, I immediately rip to FLAC and play it via Foobar and the 0404.

Get the 0404 and start enjoying it......spend your extra $700 on new music or whatever. If you don't like it, the loss that you would take in reselling here should be pretty minimal.

 

[dizzyorange]

0404 rocks.

 

[SR-71Panorama]

Yeah, I decided Im gonna get the 0404. It really isnt a huge amount of money for the inevitable thousands of hours I will get out of it. Im not too worried about it NOT sounding as good or better than the transit. It seems like worst case scenario is it sounds the same, but I still get more i/o options and better form factor. I haven't checked in a while, but I think it also comes with a gaggle of software for recording and stuff in music catalog sites. That could be a plus as I may play with those a little with my guitar someday.

One thing I just realized is it has a wall wart input for power source. I think I like this better than usb power, that could be corrupt from the computer's power (albeit theoretical mostly). I can plug that into my 'music' power strip; a Furman. Not the 6 year old cheap APC surge protector the computer uses. BONUS!