[Beach123456]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cyclone *Prays for Metallica to follow Eminem's lead*

They should. I am a big fan of them, but they have done nothing but go down hill since the album Load.
Eminem should convince some other rappers to go out with him, do the world a favor.

 

[Rempert]

The full Detroit Free Press article is here: http://www.freep.com/entertainment/m...e_20050715.htm

Everything is very noncommittal, but it's an interesting development. It makes me wonder if D12 has also made their last album as a group. I think Eminem has collaborated on about a dozen albums this year, so even if he stops making solo albums this "retirement" is probably not the end of his rapping career by a long shot.

It's no surprise that Eminem has run low on subject matter, and most people seem to think his recent work has been off the mark. Personally though, I'd rather listen to a "bad" Eminem song than most rappers' best works.

Look...
The game just isn't the same. It's changin.
Dre's quittin. Jay's quittin. Now it's just gangsters,
Just sayin the same ****. It's ancient, it's fake and
It's makin me so bored I'm gonna just make a new language.
-Eminem, "Got it Twisted"

 

[coffeeaddict]

Quote:

Originally Posted by blessingx Only rap (and maybe country) gets the 'I don't care for it' blanket genre dismissal (usually in the name of 'taste' or 'quality', but likely because of laziness in exploration). It's fine and all (no one has to like everything), but when you guys are tossing the net that large you're aware it says a lot about you and almost nothing about it, right?

Quoted for emphasis.

I doubt the vast majority of "rap-dismissers" have heard albums like Black Star, Phrenology, Black on Both Sides, Joyful Rebellion, Quality, Enter the Wu-Tang 36 Chambers, Madvilliany, and etcetera.

And it seems almost impossible for someone to actually have listened to the ridiculously popular College Dropout and not have liked it, or at least appreciated it.

BTW, the Marshall Mathers LP is close to a masterpiece, even if it's not doesn't fill one with that special warm pretentious feeling like. say, Neutral Milk Hotel's In the Aeroplane Over the Sea (overrated IMO [puts on flamesuit]), or Nick Drake's Five Leaves Left, or another album of similar ilk. All of Eminem's other albums are sketchy at best, though.

 

[mtkversion]

Eminem is a very talented musical artist.

His old " freestyles " and " Rap Olympics " were very different at the time. Then the MTV crowd got him and he blew up.

While his albums are ok it's in his battle songs that he really shines.

Everlast, Ray Benzino, Ja-Rule, ICP, Canibus, Britney/Christina know that all too well.

 

[DLP]

Quote:

Originally Posted by blessingx Only rap (and maybe country) gets the 'I don't care for it' blanket genre dismissal (usually in the name of 'taste' or 'quality', but likely because of laziness in exploration). It's fine and all (no one has to like everything), but when you guys are tossing the net that large you're aware it says a lot about you and almost nothing about it, right?

Please don't start this discussion. Things turn very ignorant on all sides when this comes up. As much as I love rap, I know it is pointless to start such debates on this forum. For examples, search for Eminem or rap or hip hop in the Music Forum.

I agree with what others said, Eminem's greatest downfall is his inability to come up with new material. I find the quote Rempert has from Em hilarious though, because Eminem's part of the reason 50's so big right now, or else 50 would just be another overlooked underground rapper.

 

[blessingx]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DLP Please don't start this discussion.

I didn't.

 

[saint.panda]

blessingx, excellent points! They reveal the inconsistency of certain arguments.

 

[Jasper994]

I kinda figured titling his last album "Encore" signified the end of his career as a rapper. I for one will be sad to see him go. I've been a fan since the Marshall Mathers LP and have a lot of respect for his tallent. I think the thing that really drew me to his art is his willingness and ability to let his emotions really come through in a very raw manner. This is a very rare and real thing in a genre that is largely glossed over by "BLING".

I guess all I have to say is: Farewell, and best wishes!

 

[eyeteeth]

x

 

[Kirosia]

I think when a lot of people say they hate rap, they usually mean that women-demeaning-hate-mongering-violence/drugs/alcohol/sex spotlighting crap. The problem is, the good actual lyrical skill kind of rap isn't really played much in the mainstream. Not to mention many people (the pop-majority) don't even know that stuff exists. And whoever doesn't think the "Evil" rap is a bad thing, come to my neck of the woods. I've seen good kids turn into immature violent street thugs with no respect for women, adults, authority, even their own family. Apparently the evil rap shows that being a ganster cool. Right. I don't give a s**t what anyone says, the media influences people. You know it, I know it.

And for those of you upper-middle class violent rap loving guys, come to the ghetto. Live here for a month. It'll show you things. Things you def won't like. Someone once said along the lines of, "if you truly live on the streets, you wouldn't go around glorifying it . . ."


srry had to get it off my chest.

 

[saint.panda]

What I've always been wondering about (no sarcasm) is if there was no "bad" hip hop, would there be neither ghettos nor violence nor bad attitude nor condescending behaviour towards women, authority and other institutions?

Admittingly, the proper question would be: Would there be less of these things and what is the trend? I'd really like to see some studies of this. I don't know about American ghettos but in certain parts of Germany rock, skinheads and xenophobic behaviour go hand in hand.

Certainly, the media has its influence but the question is whether the development and behaviour of hip hop is dynamic or static, that is whether it is willingly imposed by somebody (MTV, Bad Boy Records, etc.) or whether the people choose it hence increasing the output thereof. In today's time where the available options in music are truly rich, you don't have to listen to hip hop if you don't want to and that goes for the people living in poorer areas, too. Sure, peer pressure can be strong but is everybody just deceiving themselves then? I don't have much data on this issue but I like to think that a thorough analysis can be quite complex.

Without drawing a conclusion of whether hip hop as a form of music isn't simply instrumentalized or whether it doesn't indeed have its bad influences, I'm pretty much convinced that the real problems lie elsewhere, that is welfare, social standing, income, etc. It certainly is not a clear-cut case where hip hop is to blame. Even assuming hip hop does bad, I think it would be hindering to prioritize the battle against hip hop too strongly because it distracts from the real issues and creates an atmosphere of distrust on top of that. I'd be quite confused, irritated or even angry if people were to denounce my behaviour but critisize jazz and classical music for it.

So in my opinion saying that hip hop is the root of evil is kind of dangerous because it does neither adress nor does it solve the real problems in any way. Rather, it polarizes the conflicting sides on issues that don't touch the core.

 

[Kirosia]

Never said it was the root of evil, or that hip-hop is a bad artform. Don't know where you got that from. Just saying that the violent/offensive rap does help make this worse. When you see impressionable young children (I mean 6 and s**t) singing about how women are hos and wanting gasolinas, you start to think. And yes, it often does affect them later in life. Got distant relatives who became gansters at a young age, and they stayed. Still happening, lil ones listening to he new 50 cent album and "wishing" they were gangsters. I've seen friends get jumped, kids get ******** up for no reason, I've even been bullied myself by "rap" fans. Never got attacked by a classical or pop fan. Yet. Like I said before, unless you live in the ghetto, hardcore or not, and see how s**t goes off, you can't say much. I don't care about statistics, politics, yada yada. The state of things is what truly matters, I agree, but media influence among the pulic plays a role.

All I know is what I see everyday. And I've dealt with skinheads and xenophobes too, and yeah, they like rock. Scary cause I like rock . . . .You guys know what it's like to go to high school and wonder if you'll be killed/beaten or not . . . by some ganster or skinhead who you accidently brushed against or said something inappropriate too? Welcome to my world. And the media glorifies that crap. Let's all get drunk, beat up some women and go shoot our 9mms . .. just cause it's cool.

 

[nikongod]

bonus round.

m&m didnt bring much to the table of hip-hop imho. im sure that there are better musicians that he "towered over" with his music.

 

[Rempert]

I didn't know that computers and HD650 were standard equipment for living in ghettos.

If a 6 year-old kid is listening to rap or rock or any other kind of music, and the parents aren't picking and screening the songs, that's a problem. It's poor parenting. Parents have to constantly deal with negative media influences like Elvis, Dungeons and Dragons, Led Zepelin, Bart Simpson, Clint Eastwood, Madonna, Grand Theft Auto, Nightmare on Elm Street, Johnny Cash, Britney Spears... Maybe the media has gotten worse over time; I don't know. It's silly to single out rap music, in any case. The ghettos don't exist because of gangsta rap; gangsta rap exists because of the ghettos.

Of all the controversial media stars, few have addressed this issue as directly through their work as Eminem has. In his songs, he constantly blasts fans for taking his work seriously, he labels critics as hypocrites for holding him to a different standard than black rappers, he warns of the consequences of bad parenting, and in one song he even says "I don't blame you. I wouldn't let Hailie listen to me, neither."

 

[crazyfrenchman27]

Didn't use to appreciate rap and hip-hop until I was exposed to some underground hip hop (such as Aesop Rock) through friends.

I thought Eminem's early albums were pretty decent. His latest ones, however, have given "talented" rap a bad name.

The time was ripe for him to retire.

-Matt