[Hifi Boy]

Hey Effusion!
 
Thanks for recommending Mutec to me, I must admit that this was a good purchase. The unit itself is not cheap but for the price it does give good results.
 
I do have some other questions.
 
Once I've gotten myself a new DAC, I believe I'll go with the PerfecWave Power Plant, mainly because I'm running out of wall sockets in my apartment.
 
The thing I would like to know is once I buy that power supply, I believe I should also get a power conditioning cord, probably will go with WireWorld Electra.
 
So my question is, do I buy just 1 power cord which will go from the wall to the power supply, or should I buy a power cord for each and every audio component? The latter approach seems to me to be prohibitively expensive. I'm not sure whether the result of the initial power cord will be nullified by the stock power cords which will go from the power supply to the audio components.
 
The second question is with regards to the pure sine inverter you just mentioned. I researched a bit and found that it transforms the signal to look more like a real sine wave as opposed to a more on/off signal.
I'm not sure how exactly this would impact the audio quality, so could you elaborate on that? Also, I've seen some models for $100-$200 on Amazon, do you think these would give good results or should I go for more expensive ones?
 
I also assume, that only 1 unit would be needed which should be plugged into the power supply?

 

[Effusion]

You're very welcome and I'm glad to try to help.  I agree about the Mutec units, a better signal, is well, just better.
 
As far as getting a good clean supply of power, it can be difficult, especially if you are connected to other units in your apartment complex.  Not much you probably can do, but unplugging things and even using some DIY hacks like socket plugs, etc. have helped some, but these are usually smaller in impact than most tweaks.  The biggest culprits of messing with your power are usually fridges, microwaves, etc., so definitely try not to have the audio on the same circuit as the kitchen.  I actually use a quality power extension cord to a different circuit/room that isn't being used than where my computer is located.  I also use a ONEAC unit that my computer, monitor, modem, etc. are all plugged into.  If you can find one of these units (they may be discontinued), or one like it, they can really help isolate the dirty power output from your computer and other non-audio directly components, making sure it doesn't go back into the circuit; this is especially true if you are using plugs in the same room, etc.
 
The PerfecWave Power Plant does look very nice and I like what it is doing at lot.  However, I've never used one and I don't know too much about the impressions of with and without one.  I guess my suggestion would be to try to get a ONEAC or similar unit, plug everything but your DAC and amplifier into it and if feasible, run a quality extension cord from a different circuit/area that has nothing plugged in.  Then, either now or later, get a unit like the PerfecWave Power Plant to plug just the audio, non-computer, components into.  Some power conditioners are very nice and they are widely used by many, but considering how your power is at the source, your mileage may vary due to other conditions out of your control.  A few I've known have ended up recently selling very expensive conditioners, saying that they took some of the life out of the music and now they prefer high quality surge/power protectors instead and a more direct path.  Since you are in an apartment and can't control how other units use their power, your local grid is already probably a bit dirty and there may not be much you can do expect use something like the PerfectWave.  I don't really know much about different conditioner units, but I do know that some aren't very good or at least for how much the sell for; I personally use a high quality surge/line protector for all my audio gear and a large ONEAC unit for everything else.  A new DAC upgrade beforehand will also probably give you more impact in the end than trying to do much else beyond the Mutec.  However, a unit such as the PerfectWave could get you one step closer.
 
As far as power cords, they are important and do change the sound; more in my opinion than most interconnects, but usually smaller changes overall.  I haven't dove into the world of cables so much, at least yet, so I've mainly opted for hospital grade power cords with thicker wire gauges.  Since these cords send the power to very expensive and highly accurate hospital machines, they are usually of very good quality and I've even had good experiences comparing them to much more expensive cables.  There is a lot of variability in cables.  In the past, the easiest way to tell if a cord was hospital grade was a small green sticker on the inside of the plug.  However, I would not trust this completely and a cord with a sticker targeted towards audio could be a fake.  Otherwise, there are a lot of different types of power cords to choose from, many with big price tags, so take this into account.
 
Good power cables would be good for all components though, but if you are using a conditioner unit, the plug from the wall to it would be a good place to have a quality cable I would say.  At least it wouldn't hurt.  I don't know much about those conditioning cables, but they look very nice.  You could go with one of those, or something similar, and then a few nice hospital grade ones from a good seller as a start.
 
As far as those pure sine wave inverters, it just something I would go with, or maybe something similar, if I had no restrictions and was running off a separate solar grid and storing DC.  It really has to do with Modified vs Pure Sine Wave Inverters, but I am no expert on the subject.  Actually most often a pure sine wave is used because some equipment won't actually run off a modified, which can produce hum as well as other distortions, so I believe they have become the norm.  The idea being to take the DC from the solar panel batteries and creating a clean AC current with little distortion or added noise, so something like these units compared to modified units makes more sense.  So, these would take the DC and turn it into AC, but something like the PerfecWave Power Plant may also be doing something very similar, so it would be a better choice if going from an existing AC source than DC storage, as you would need things in addition to the converter.  Here is a link to some information, but I haven't really looked into it much and something else may be a better.  For your purposes I wouldn't worry about trying one so much as a ONEAC and/or a unit like the PerfectWave.

 

[Hifi Boy]

I can't wait for my Elekit to arrive. The guys at Amtrans said it will take about 2 weeks to get it done. So that would mean 2 more days. I assure you I'll take 30 hours of breaking everything in before I post any reviews.
Interesting article about the sine wave. Here's what it says on PS Audio's website, at least for Power Plant 10:
 
Capable of powering any size system with pure sine wave power...
 
So it seems it acts as a pure since inverter as well.

I'll have to look some more into that.
 
As for the power cord. I just realized that the Japanese distributor for WireWorld does not carry Wire World Power cords. I've contacted WireWorld about that but still didn't get a reply. 

 
I've also realized what a mistake I've done with purchasing the 1.5m WireWorld cable. I should have bought the shortest, 0.5m one.
 
A much better solution for my system would have been to have my MacBook on the audio rig itself, meaning I could simply use the 0.5m cable, and then use an external monitor (which I intend to buy anyway) and use a mouse and keyboard (which I already have) on my desk.
Unfortunately I wasn't thinking yet I could have saved myself a lot of money.
Hope somebody learns from this mistake. 

 
As for the other upgrades, there still one more piece of gear which I should be getting at the end of this month. I'll certainly let you know what it is when it arrives and how it works with my Elekit. 

 
I would like to ask you also, what is your opinion on DACs. have you ever hear Chord Dave, because I have. I would say that its very smooth, which I like a lot. Unfortunately, I have not heard it with my Elekit, but through its headphone port, which I kind of consider a waste. Not that there is something wrong with it, but in my opinion, such high-end DACSs should't have any headphone outputs, since it goes without saying that if you can afford such a DAC, then you probably can afford a decent amp as well.
 
Which brings us to my situation, which is that I can't afford such a DAC, thus I was thinking about going with Simaudio 380D DSD. My question is, what DACs would you recommend and how do they compare to Dave, if you've heard it before?

 

[Effusion]

Very cool, let us know how it goes!  After it burns in, do some comparisons without the Mutek in the path as well.
 
That P10 Power Plant looks really cool!  Yup, actually right along the lines I was commenting on, the unit stores the AC as DC and then converts it back to AC using a sine wave inverter of some sorts.  Essentially very similar to what a dedicated solar panel setup I referred to would do, without the need for the sun/panels, but the grid.  Those aren't cheap though, but boy do they have a ton of features, best to find used and used with lighter equipment... I would be interested in how they affect the sound and what people's general impressions are.
 
No worries, it is hard to predetermine all of your uses and a longer cable is probably better than one that is too short in the end, as long as you have room for the cable, etc.  You could always sell it and then buy the shorter one, however it may only make sense to buy a short one used then as well.  Or you could just use it and who knows, maybe the extra length may come in handy later on.  I've found that to be true with RCA cables at least and trying to do different runs turns out to only work in a few placements.
 
As far as DACs go, in my opinion it is a giant hole of possibilities.  Not only are there a ton of different options out there, they all do the conversion in a slightly different way as well.  You can always start at the individual DAC chips, however in my opinion and in more ways than other audio components, DACs can vary greatly due to implementation alone and not just the chip.  So, two of the same DAC chips won't necessarily sound the same in two different implementations/units at all and some chips that may be regarded as just okay by most are actually quite good if implemented in a certain way.  In addition, really being able to tell the differences between DACs is not as easy as say headphones for most.
 
I haven't heard the Chord Dave, but it sure looks crazy!  Very cool, looks sort of like an intercom from the future!  I know a few guys that really like some of the Chord stuff and I believe there is some good buzz around a few of their products currently, so I'm sure it is very nice.  For the price, we would hope so!  Unfortunately I haven't heard the Simaudio unit either, but it looks very nice as well; lots of connections available.  I agree about the headphone out, pointless at that price point and if not done correctly can cause interference with the DAC, so really shouldn't be there and only ups the cost, but they probably wanted the total-package unit, so they included it.
 
Although I can't help much with those two DACs, I would suggest that you try to purchase something used.  I went through a bit of a DAC search myself and buying second-hand units saved me a ton of money.  If you are unsure, it is nice to know that you can get around the same amount you paid back in the end if you don't like it.  I personally haven't gone through a ton of DACs myself, but I know a few guys that have gone through dozens over the years.  Although it is harder for newer or rare DACs to come up for sale, patience can sometimes save one's wallet in the end.
 
I personally prefer the sound of well implemented NOS DACs.  There are several reasons of why and what I prefer about the NOS sound, but implementation is critical.  NOS is hard because often they sound too veiled, dark, and soft, but there are quite a few out there that do things very well.  Ultimately it is about the sound you prefer and the functionality contained within.  I like NOS for not only the sound, but I also believe that the way we up-sample and over-sample currently can sometimes put a digital edge on everything and kind of mess with the sound a bit.  The technology is cool, but in my opinion we just aren't there yet.  I think we first need to record and master in high-definition very well and not just rely on changing the sampling and resolution of low-res material.  Getting everyone there is the problem.  How the over-sampling is done also varies greatly and some do it very well, while others, mostly in the past, not so well.  If you are into hi-res recordings than there are quite a few options that are absolutely amazing.  We have come a long way in the recording department and I've heard quite a few very nice oversampling DACs in the past few years, so eventually I'll get there.  The key to me is those that not only get all the recorded detail out, but present it in a way that is never harsh or abrasive, but natural and inviting.  You could compare this digital edge I hear in some DACs to some of the new 4K TVs out there right now.  They look great with non-4K stuff until you see something extremely detailed and then the edges just get really sharp; the best way to see this is when there is text on the screen and it is moving either in or out of the frame, the borders of the letters become razor sharp and personally hurt my eyes after awhile.  Also, fast sports filmed in 720 don't look so great and get muddy as well as all mushed together.  Audio and video are different, but this is just an easy comparison.  To me, many times NOS DACs smooth out everything as well as do it in a natural sounding way and if you don't have hi-res recordings they are feasible.  To me, they can help make a studio recording sound more natural and not so boxed-in as well as a live recording sound more believable.  However, it does help that I don't currently have any hi-res music, so I really have no use for a hi-res player and considering my tastes, NOS just makes more sense for me.  It's also not like I could just go out and buy the hi-res download, which often is just converted from redbook anyway, because it is unavailable and probably will be for a long time considering I listen mostly to independently created/sold music, not on any major labels.  In the end, some of the high-resolution recordings I've heard recently through hi-res equipment blew me away, so eventually widespread use on both ends will be the norm.
 
My best suggestion regarding a DAC is to read a ton of reviews/impressions and put together a top three list based on how you perceive they may sound in your system and the necessary functions for both now and in the near future.  Then check for nice used units at good prices; if you can get a unit from the original buyer it is best, but often you'll be either the third or fourth owner.  If you can get one for a good enough price to sell back later, try it out and if you don't like, oh well, just try and find another different one on the list for sale, etc.  This way you can "really" try a few (with your own equipment) that you want to, all in your own system and without breaking the bank in the end.  It is really a waiting and luck game though, so it is always best to try what you really want regardless in the end, but the trick to saving your wallet is getting there in the fastest and cheapest way.

 

[Hifi Boy]

I've been doing some research lately and now I'm also considering the Invicta Mirus. Even though its around 700K yen here.
 
I've read nothing but praise for this DAC and its been made by the guys who made the Sabre DAC chip in the first place! I don't think you can go wrong with that.
 
There's a review which says that the USB isolation on this unit is great and that using BADA Alpha USB didn't add much to the sound.
 
http://www.highfidelity.pl/@main-469&lang=en
 
So, I think that my Mutec won't add much to it either. On the other hand Mutec is planning to release Ref10, which then should be able to make some noticeable difference in sound.
 
One other review compared Mirus with Meitner MA-1, which here costs more than 1.1M yen, and concluded it was the preferred device.
 
As for my Elekit, I believe 2 weeks are up today, so I should be receiving it shortly. I'll let it break in for 30 hours as you've suggested and then do a review. After the review, I'll listen to it without the Mutec to determine what exactly have Mundorf+Amtrans added and what exactly has Mutec added to the sound quality.
 
Also, I'll probably be doing a review of WireWorld Platinum Electra 7 cable soon. Haven't decided on that yet, but I do believe I'll have to take my Elekit with me to make sure what I'm hearing there is what I'll be hearing at home. I've also been thinking about the PerfectWave power regenerator and the power conditioning cords in general.
 
I don't really know what these power conditioning cords are supposed to do, but to my mind, whatever they are doing, I do't think it would make a lot of sense to put one between the wall socket and the PerfectWave.
Since PS Audio website clearly states that the AC power, which is coming from the grid is regenerated, as in, created anew, by coverting it to DC and then again to AC. So any effect, which the conditioning cord might have on the electric current should be nullified once it gets regenerated. They specifically mention that PerfectWave Power Plant is not a conditioner but a regenerator. Conditioning is in that case only done by the cord.
 
In my mind then, I believe the cord should be placed between the PerfectWave and the devices, to keep the electric signal as pure as possible once it leaves the PerfectWave and enters the audio components. If I have only one such cable, I believe that the device which is most sensitive to electric power should be connected to it, which I think would be the amp.

 

[vkung]

 
This is the little brother of TU-8200
It has the same features of TU-8200 with  6AQ5 (6V6) X 2 + 12Ax7 X1

 

[sunneebear]

This is the little brother of TU-8200
It has the same features of TU-8200 with  6AQ5 (6V6) X 2 + 12Ax7 X1

Hi Victor,
TU8150 right, how much will it cost? As a headphone amp only, can it sound better than the TU8200?
Thanks

 

[vkung]

It is around $475.  
TU-8150
Tube set : 6005W (6AQ5) X 2 ( 6V6 can be used ) + 12AX7 X1

Output mode : UL (2.9W), Pentode (2.9W) and Triode (1.6W)
Speak impedance : 4 - 8 ohm
Headphone : 8 - 600 ohm
TU-8200 is the big brother of TU-8150...  TU-200 has more juice..
 

 

 

 

[Dimu]

  And...? Any details that you care to share?

 
Not sure what kind of details are you looking for? I use LS50 for near field listening on my desk. Cossor 807 in UL mode power it more than adequately, sounds gets to unhealthy levels before audible distortion creeps in. I feed it with Gungnir Multibit DAC and the whole system is very sensitive to signal quality. For example I used it for a few days without Regen and the sound was noticeably grainy. But then again my TU-8200 and TU-8500 were built with the best components from the ground up. The only expense spared is that I used very few naked Vishay resistors. Pretty much all resistors are Amtrans, as many of them as I could get are AMRG. Bypass caps have significantly lower ESR than the best upgrades offered by Victor. Mundorf caps throughout including where they don't really fit physically. Upgraded power caps. TDK pots. Silver lead solder from WBT. The only thing that I still would like to upgrade further is output transformers. And of course tube choices are important. I still did not get to upgrading my power transformer so my amp keeps running Cossor 807s driven by E80CC. This is the best combination that I found that is compatible with the stock power transformer. TU-8500 is running a pair of Mullard 12AT7. All original tubes.

 

[Hifi Boy]

While breaking in my upgraded Elekit, I stumbled upon this website where they reviewed many capacitors and ranked some of them higher than the top Mundorf models. For example, has anyone ever heard about this one?
 
Intertechnik Audyn True Copper Max MKP 630VDC
 
Do you guys think this would be able to be installed into TU-8200?
 
Dimu, you seem to have upgraded your Elekit extensively. Could you let me know what else is there to be added, besides the Mundorf capacitors and Amtrans resistors and where could I get those upgrades?

 

 

[vkung]

Those caps are too big for TU-8200. Mundorf Silver Gold is good for TU-8200

 

[Hifi Boy]

Hey Victor.
 
Thanks for letting us know. What about this EAT KT88 Diamond tube here?
It seems quite expensive and has good reviews online.
 
Do you think it would work with TU-8200?
 
One more question.
 
I'm currently 25 hours into breaking in the Mundorf and Amtrans upgrades.
How long do you think it takes before they sound their best?

 

[vkung]

I think 20-30 hours..
I recommend you to replace the driver tube to Psavne Mark II 12Au7 or Brima 12AU7/ECC82. I like  EH6L6GC..

 

[Hifi Boy]

Hey Victor, as you can see, from this post I already have the PSvane tubes.
 
While I was at Amtrans store, I did see some RCA ones, which I heard were also very good and hard to find.
 
I might consider auditioning them in the future.

 

[vkung]

RCA  6L6GC is very good.. I like 6L6GC,,
I will use Psavne MKii KT88. It is around $200.