[430011]

I just received a pair of Gold Lion KT-66 incidentally but haven't rolled them in yet. I also got a pair of NOS RFT 12AU7 that I briefly tried out. Perhaps a slightly punchier sound, but it's hard for me to tell.

Hopefully I'll get an evening sometime to roll a bunch of tubes in different modes. Interested in these KT-66.

 

[Hifi Boy]

Hey JK, I'm in contact with the very polite and helpful Tamura-san from Elekit, I'm sure they could help me with installing them.

Also, do you know where I could buy them here locally in Japan, or order them online?

 

[Hifi Boy]

I just received a pair of Gold Lion KT-66 incidentally but haven't rolled them in yet. I also got a pair of NOS RFT 12AU7 that I briefly tried out. Perhaps a slightly punchier sound, but it's hard for me to tell.

Hopefully I'll get an evening sometime to roll a bunch of tubes in different modes. Interested in these KT-66.

Hi Evan.

Great to hear that you got yourself the Gold Lions. I can tell you that I did not need any burn in time to be immediately wowed by them. Hope you enjoy them as much as I do.

 

[JK-47]

Hey JK, I'm in contact with the very polite and helpful Tamura-san from Elekit, I'm sure they could help me with installing them.

Also, do you know where I could buy them here locally in Japan, or order them online?

Oh geez, I didn't know you were in Japan. I bought mine from Victor, the North American Elekit distributor and all around nice guy. I'm sure if you asked Victor he could point you in the right direction.

 

[Hifi Boy]

Oh geez, I didn't know you were in Japan. I bought mine from Victor, the North American Elekit distributor and all around nice guy. I'm sure if you asked Victor he could point you in the right direction.

Hehe, thanks JK, if that's the case then I'm sure Tamura-san should know as well. Thanks for the input!

Could you also maybe describe how the Mundorfs changed the sounds if you have the time?

 

[JK-47]

The Mundorfs pulled a veil off the overall sound and made the it somewhat brighter and more detailed. Instruments and vocals were more distinct and less smeared into each other.

 

[Hifi Boy]

Wow, that sounds just like what I'm looking for. The Fostex HP-A4BL DAC is the weakest link in my system so I was thinking of getting a new DAC. Because I'm just lacking some detail in the sound.

But now I guess I'll have to try this upgrade first.

 

[Effusion]

Congrats on the purchase and welcome to the club!
 
I also concur with JK, the Supreme upgrade from Victor does take a bit of a veil off the stock version, adding both clarity and detail; I also noticed a bit of a brighter top-end as well, but after burn-in, etc. it is very pleasant and not overly bright or fatiguing at all, just a wee bit more sparkle up top, which may actually be just better refined detail.  It also sounds more fluid and natural to me as well.  I recommend it to those looking to get a bit more out of the amp in its stock form; it is not a cheap upgrade, but with the prices of NOS, even new, tube sets for this amp, for many I think it would make sense.  Ask Victor for the part list and see if you can source them easy in Japan, otherwise I'm sure Victor can send you them from Canada if need be.
 
A good to great DAC will definitely give you millage as far as detail/resolution, however it is a large rabbit hole that can really burn-up one's wallet.  It's really about the flavor you seek and the options/functions that you'll use, as many very expensive DACs are really just that, expensive for what you get compared to many others nowadays.
 
As a side note, I've found that this amp can be very sensitive to what it is being fed and scales nicely to higher-end equipment.  I've even gone as far as moving the signal off my USB bus, my switchable power supply (to linear), and CPU clock due to the amp picking up processing/cross-talk noise within the signal coming from my computer.  I can verify that it was this amp's sensitivity as my other amps do not pick it up, even though it has always been there.  Essentially decrapifying my signal to my DAC enormously affected the Elekit in a positive way and in addition gave me piece of mind.  Everything has become better (really all sonics across the board have improved) and the background is now very silent and black now, even with the pot opened all the way (just some slight tube noise that will always be there).  One of the best things I have ever done to my system, so if you or anyone else is interested in what all I did, let me know (it was quite involved and not very cheap, but I got the best bang for my buck in the end).
 
As far as tubes go, you can really lose your head with this amp!  For the most part I've only dealt with old-stock, but many here have a lot of experience with new-stock as well.
 
Enjoy, give it some time to settle in, and let us know how it goes!

 

 

[Hifi Boy]

Hi Effusion!
 
Thanks for the reply, I've asked Tamura-san from Elekit Japan, but if she does not know, I will most certainly ask Viktor to send me these. I believe it is also possible to have the TU-8200 upgraded with "Full Set Amtrans Upgrade Resistors Plus", judging by what I've seen here. I'm not sure what these are but if it gives a noticeable improvement in sound quality I will certainly try to get these as well.
 
Anyway, please do share your experience on reducing the noise. I would like to do the same because it might be helpful, since I'm playing music from a MacBook PRO. On the other hand, my next purchases, will probably be the following ones,
 
Kimber Axios Headphone Cable (for Hifiman HE1000)
WireWorld Platinum Starlight 7 USB
Simaudio Moon Neo 380D DSD DAC
 
I've tried Kimber cable and can say that I liked it very much. On the other hand, I never tried the other two products but I guess they should bring out the detail in my music.
 
Any input is welcome.

 

[Effusion]

Those Amtrans Resistors would be a good upgrade, let us know if you decide to go for them.
 
As far as cleaning up the signal/power from your computer source, there are several options you can go for.  Unfortunately, in my opinion, laptops make it hard to get a really clean signal.  For one thing, the attached monitors can really dirty the power to the rest of the computer, plus since all the components are so close, EMI and cross-talk can be hard to eliminate.  If you are able to go with a dedicated desktop you'll have better options plus a cleaner signal in general.
 
I'm using a Paul Pang Audio USB card (version 3) that is being feed power from an HDPlex Linear PSU (100 watt).  I use two separate 5 volt rails on the PSU; one runs to the PPA USB card and the other (a USB Type C) runs to my SSD that holds all my tunes.  The nice thing about the PPA cards, besides their great quality, is that they run on the PCI bus, separate from the USB (which runs my keyboard/mouse plus other things when needed).  The card removes all power from the PCI port, only accepting the data, which is then clocked by the PPA card, using the linear power, and then sent out along the USB to my DAC.  This has really cleaned up the signal to my DAC and has eliminated much of the noise, improving the audio across the spectrum.  You can spend a ton of money on Linear PSUs, but I have to say that I was more impressed with the HDPlex than all other components I use, it really is a very nice PSU for the money.
 
Other than that, I have my computer separated internally by a steel wall, so on one side is my music SDD attached to an anti-vibration mount as well as my motherboard.  On the other side is my switchable PSU (which runs everything but the card and the music SSD) as well as my other non-music SSDs.  Since my case is quite large, the sides are all made of aluminum, so I've covered them in EMI/RFI 3M Shielding to keep the nasties both out and in.  In addition, I currently have 14 case fans (12 120mm and 2 140mm), plus 2 140mm CPU fans which are all PWM fans.  I've programmed them on graphs to increase gradually from 0 RPMs on up according to 10 different temperature probes on both the motherboard as well as different components within the case.  After stress testing my system for 2 hours, running at 4.7 ghz (which is not the max overclock for my CPU, but a safe upper limit), my PWM fans topped out at around 500 rpm, while keeping the processor, motherboard, and all other components extremely cool.  During normal use, the PWM fans run at about 200-300 RPM, which is very silent.  My general rule is the bigger the fan and the more air it pulls/pushes the slower the RPM that is needed, which makes it in turn less noisy; small fans are usually very loud at almost any speed.  They have to be PWM fans however, otherwise the best you can really get is 3 speed non-PWMs and nothing with a gradual ramp-up.
 
All in all it has been worth it, but if you can't go this route, there are other options including several bridges that will isolate the power and take the music off the CPU clock.  Many people I know really like the offerings from Mutec, although they are not cheap.  However, in the end you are just cleaning up a dirty signal instead of the route I went, which really tries to clean the signal at the source.  The only other thing I've considered is bypassing the CPU clock with an external clock all together, however since I'm effectively negating my CPU clock as the sender with the clock on the PPA card, I don't think it is necessary.  There are also several options to put power filters on the SATA power cables that run hard drives as well as fans (molex as well), but if you separate the music related components from the rest of the system (separate PSUs), than they aren't needed as much, since the motherboard/CPU power that runs the data will always be a bit dirty.  Another thing is to have a nice high quality motherboard; some advertise their shielding and isolation properties, but again these are not cheap as well.
 
Computer audio can be a big rabbit hole, so tread lightly and follow the general rule that cleaner power and better isolation is the ultimate goal in better audio from them.  Hope this helps to give you some ideas!

 

[Hifi Boy]

Effusion, I have ordered the following from Victor (sadly Elekit Japan does not deal with these parts):
 
Mundorf EVO Supreme Silver Gold
Sanyo OS-CON 180uf
Amtrans AMRS resistor set, 5 Fine Gold 220uf + 3 X 1uf Fine Gold
 
Now I just have to pay off my credit card at the end of the month in order to pay for this (sorry about the wait Victor!)
 
You've certainly done your homework on power and noise reduction.
Since I won't be able to take your route, I'll probably be buying some separate components without modifying my Mac.
 
So, which products from Mutec would you recommend, since there's a lot of them on their website.
 
Also, what do you think about Berkeley Audio Design Alpha USB?
Is it the same as some of Mutec's products, or could you buy that and some of Mutec's products?
 
The cheapest route I can think of right now to go for me, would be to get Ifi iUsb + iPurifier 2 + Gemini cable.
Do you have any opinions on their stuff?

 

[Effusion]

Glad you got the parts and are moving forward with the upgrade; it may not be very cheap, but it is worth it considering how much tube sets for this amp are and if you think about it, this upgrade should improve any tube set you use regardless.  Victor is a great guy and knows a ton about DIY and these amps, plus he has a very good ear, so I've always taken his recommendations highly.  Let us know how the upgrade goes and be sure to let the unit burn-in a bit as mine needed it to settle down a bit.
 
Yes, the best way to improve the sound if you are using a laptop is a quality bridge.  The Mutec units are not cheap, but I believe the best bang for your buck is the MC-1.2 bridge; by buddy is actually the one with the quote on the product information page and he is also here on head-fi, so if you would like to contact him for more information let me know through a private message.  He also wrote a review of this unit on his blog, which is linked by his quote and will probably answer several questions you may have.
 
The only issue with some bridges is that while they will have a USB connection into the unit, they may not have a USB out of the unit, hence why they are called bridges.  So, if you are using a USB only DAC or just wish to use the USB input on your DAC, you need to be mindful of this and may need to go for a reclocker type of unit.
 
Unfortunately I don't know much about the the iFi products, but a few of the bigger audio guys around me locally really like the iPurifier and iUSB.  I did look into it once, and there was a nice little unit from Germany that was only about $40 USD that cleans up the USB power, but unfortunately I'm unsure what it was called.  There may be some info on here about decrapifying your signal, so searching would be a good idea, however I do know that other sites have gone a bit crazy over it, with loads of information.  However, I really don't want to link to them here, so if you would like to know, just send me a private message.  In addition, some USB DACs don't need power through the USB signal, while others do because of the "handshake" to trigger the signal connection.  If you are able to find out if your DAC does not need power to handshake through the USB cable, you can actually cut the power wire (not the data) in the USB cable and it will still work the same.  My buddy did this at one point and said the affect was big and along the lines of using cleaner power; you have to cut it at the correct end of the cable I believe, which I forget, so if yours does not need power to start the connection handshake, let me know and I'll ask my buddy.
 
Generally, what you can do to separate the signal from the computer, either by power or clock, will get you better sound.  However some units may not have dramatic results, while others will.  I know the guys around here went crazy over the Mutec 1.2, ending up on the higher end unit (forget the product model), which some even tweaked and are running with linear power now.  It went from being the best overall upgrade in their system to being absolutely necessary pretty quickly; I just went a different route and couldn't use the 1.2 because my DAC is USB input only, hence why I tried to get to the source (I also do not use a laptop, so this way made more sense).
 
Hope this helps, but let me know!
 

 

 

[Hifi Boy]

Thanks for letting me know about Mutec.
 
I did some research and from what I can tell MC3+USB is equal to, if not better that Berkely Audio Alpha USB in audio quality.
Also, here in Japan MC-3+USB is almost half the price of Alpha USB and it also plays DSD.
 
I think its a no brainer now that I'll go with that after I got my DAC upgrade.
The Ref10 from Mutec seems to be adding an additional amount of soundstage to the sound, from what I've seen on youtube.
But this product is either discontinued or it was never released, and I think, it was simply released as Mutec iClock.
 
On the other end of things, my Genalex 12AU7 came today.
I can't say I'm noticing much difference from Psvane 12AU7-T2. maybe I need to burn them in a bit before I make a judgement?
But as of now, they pretty much sound the same.
 

 

 

[Effusion]

Very cool, if I remember correctly, I believe the MC3+ is what those guys ended up with.  It is more expensive than the 1.2, but they were all saying that it was very noticeable difference and worth the extra coin.  Pretty sure they kept referring to the 3 plus or something similar, so I believe this is it.  Seems that Mutec units are also highly regarded by others on the web, so I think they're a good choice.  My buddy has gone through a ton of different bridges over the years, and the Mutec units are pretty much it for him.
 
As far as those tubes, unfortunately I've tried neither one, so can't really comment on them, but in general, I've experienced greater differences in sound signature with changes in the power tubes, especially from different types that the amp takes, than from 12au7s.  Some of my favorite power tubes for the money are actually the 807 tube types, but you have to buy adapters.  They are pretty inexpensive compared to other quality types for this amp and sound pretty darn good overall (to me between a KT66 and a KT88); I prefer the JAN military types, as well as the ceramic Cossors variant, especially the round plate ones.
 
To me, most of the time different brands of 12au7s give me only small differences in color and tone.  Using different types of input/signal tubes, such as 12au7 equivalents, has always given me more differentiation than within the exact 12au7 family.  Not to say that the input/signal tube is not as important as the power tubes, because once you get one you really like. it brings the entire amp together and can make it really shine.
 
Any particular sound that you are looking for overall or that you would like more of?
 
The folks here have a ton of experience with tubes in this amp, both old and new, so let us know how it goes and if we can help.

 

[Hifi Boy]

Well, for now, I'm done with buying tubes. I can't complain about the sound they gave me,
or the awesome upgrade the KT66 Gold Lions were. The sound I'm looking for is warm, lush and smooth.
This is exactly what I got from the Genalex and Psvane.
 
On the other hand, you really made me think about the Mutec stuff now,
because I need more detail in my sound since I have enough of warmth.
 
Seeing as how the Simaudio 380D DSD is not a small investment, I might just go for the MC-3+USB for now.
I would just need a quick clarification on your part regarding how to plug it into my system.
 
The Fostex HP-A4BL which I currently have looks like this.

The Mutec MC-3+USB looks like this:
 
 

 
 
 
So, as far as I can tell, the only way to connect these two is to use the S/P-DIF optical connectors which they both have.
But I've read that this type of connection is not the best in terms of audio quality. Do you think it would make sense to use it this way?
Or these might not be optical connectors at all? I have no idea since I never used this connector before.
 
Once I've upgraded to Simaudio 380D DSD, then the obvious choice is the AES/EBU connector, but for now It seems like I'm stuck with his one.
 
Aside from this I do have another question. From what I have seen, the Mutec website lists MC-3+USB in almost all the categories,
except Audio/Video Clock Generators and Sampling Rate Converters. Under this category we have MC-4, MC6 and MC-8 products.
Can you tell me what these are and would they be a worthy upgrade together with MC-3+USB?