[jude]

[size=xx-small] Quote:

Originally posted by Mike Scarpitti Why do you think Stax and others bother to make these things? For their amusement? Of course they're better, but they have to be plugged in and powered up: — that's the limitation. 580 volts of bias current!

[/size]I'm not really sure what your point is with this statement.

 

[Mike Scarpitti]

Quote:

Originally posted by jude I'm not really sure what your point is with this statement.

Uhhhh..let's see...dynamic phones have inherent limitations...and small part of market demands best...let's sell these to them...maybe if they really want them they'll pay...but this isn't a cheap technology to devise...so they better be good....OK, so we'll make 'em good..so will anybody buy 'em?...if they can hear them, they will...OK, let's build 'em....but won't some people make better dynamic ones in the future?...sure, but we'll make even better electrostatics....

 

[williamgoody]

So be it that the Stax may be better than the Sony's or any other phone. But there is absolutly no credibility given to someone who hasn't even heard a phone they're trying to compare. Big deal Mike, you had the 1000's, they're not the 3000's. Housings for the drivers can make all the difference in the world. Whether you may be right or not is really irrelevant, since you have no real basis to back up your statement.

 

[jude]

[size=xx-small] Quote:

Originally posted by Mike Scarpitti Uhhhh..let's see...dynamic phones have inherent limitations...and small part of market demands best...let's sell these to them...maybe if they really want them they'll pay...but this isn't a cheap technology to devise...so they better be good....OK, so we'll make 'em good..so will anybody buy 'em?...if they can hear them, they will...OK, let's build 'em....but won't some people make better dynamic ones in the future?...sure, but we'll make even better electrostatics....

[/size]

Okay.

 

[JaZZ]

Quote:

Originally posted by Mike Scarpitti Why do you think Stax and others bother to make these things? For their amusement? Of course they're better...

That's a naive argumentation.

I just agree with another statement of yours: «Just listen for yourself!» The result is very individual. The Stax sound is very tempting and by all means highly detailed and resolving. But details is not all music is made of. Coherence is made by a harmonic cooperation of all sonic components. The weak point of electrostatics are lower frequencies up to the midrange. Although they may be quite satisfying, they don't have the impact and substance of good dynamic headphones. And their greatest strength, the treble, has a tiny bit of a technical timbre. You may be immune to that or not. But by all means you can't postulate that they're better in every way and for everyone.

 

[Mike Scarpitti]

Quote:

Originally posted by williamgoody So be it that the Stax may be better than the Sony's or any other phone. But there is absolutly no credibility given to someone who hasn't even heard a phone they're trying to compare. Big deal Mike, you had the 1000's, they're not the 3000's. Housings for the drivers can make all the difference in the world. Whether you may be right or not is really irrelevant, since you have no real basis to back up your statement.

The two units (CD1000 and CD3000) are almost identical in sound quality, to the best of my knowledge. the housing is better on the CD3000, and the case it comes with costs $250 if ordered seperately (I checked with Sony on this). I paid $350 for the CD1000's, and they sounded better than ANY dynamic phone I had ever heard, and when I brought them home, they were fairly close to my Stax Lamda's in overall balance and dynamics, rhythm, slam and pace, etc. They could not, however, compete with the Stax in transient response or ultimate detail, or freedom from the slightest traces of colouration.

 

[Tim D]

Quote:

The two units (CD1000 and CD3000) are almost identical in sound quality,

You say this having not heard the CD3k.

Quote:

to the best of my knowledge

Your best knowledge boiling down to assumptions that anyone else who hasn't heard the CD3k could come up with if so willing.

Why not let people who've actually heard the two compare them. Better yet why not let Jmedeiros compare for himself during the meet later.

It isn't like we really need to build up on any more presumptions on head-fi about any given headphone. Jmedeiros's review was great. When reading it I was thinking finally, some more *meat* to actually bite into. I don't have to agree with everything in the review, but at least there is some real *substance* there. Which is a lot more than what typically goes around on head-fi lately.

 

[Mike Scarpitti]

Quote:

Originally posted by Tim D You say this having not heard the CD3k. Your best knowledge boiling down to assumptions that anyone else who hasn't heard the CD3k could come up with if so willing. Why not let people who've actually heard the two compare them. Better yet why not let Jmedeiros compare for himself during the meet later. It isn't like we really need to build up on any more presumptions on head-fi about any given headphone. Jmedeiros's review was great. When reading it I was thinking finally, some more *meat* to actually bite into. I don't have to agree with everything in the review, but at least there is some real *substance* there. Which is a lot more than what typically goes around on head-fi lately.

No, seriously, I doubt whether there is any significant difference between the drivers. The case and housing are most of the cost differential.

 

[Uncledan]

So you guess CD1000 and CD3000 use same driver or what?!?

 

[Tim D]

The only difference between different Grados are quality or tuning of drivers, of which I have suspicion that their overall "design" is extremely similar if not same, and their different housings.

That is fine if you have a strong Stax bias...I just don't see why you really feel the need to extend it to everyone else. From my limited experience I would probably side on Stax's over the Sony3k's as well, but I wouldn't be so confident to set that into stone and show the world. Heck I probably don't find myself doing that for things I do have significant experience with.

There really should be enough substance out there that we don't need to resort to postulations as a substitute for one's ears and experience. That is fine to compare your experiences with your Sony1k with your Stax Lambda, but then you start to dilute much of what you have with all the slippery slope generalizations.

 

[Mike Scarpitti]

Quote:

Originally posted by Uncledan So you guess CD1000 and CD3000 use same driver or what?!?

I believe so.

 

[Mike Scarpitti]

Quote:

Originally posted by Tim D The only difference between different Grados are quality or tuning of drivers, of which I have suspicion that their overall "design" is extremely similar if not same, and their different housings. That is fine if you have a strong Stax bias...I just don't see why you really feel the need to extend it to everyone else. From my limited experience I would probably side on Stax's over the Sony3k's as well, but I wouldn't be so confident to set that into stone and show the world. Heck I probably don't find myself doing that for things I do have significant experience with. There really should be enough substance out there that we don't need to resort to postulations as a substitute for one's ears and experience. That is fine to compare your experiences with your Sony1k with your Stax Lambda, but then you start to dilute much of what you have with all the slippery slope generalizations.

No, don't get me wrong. I just cannot see spending $500 on a CD3000 and $700 on a separate amp (or more) when for about that much (or less) you could get a Stax that will surely (I have NO doubt) out-perform it. That's what I'm saying. the reason I have no doubt is the physics. I don't have to listen to every dynamic out there to know that NO dynamic will beat the Stax. It CANNOT be done. It's not a matter of prejudice, but of physics.

 

[markl]

Same thing with HD580 vs. HD600-- now there's what even Sennheiser admits to being virtually identical sets of headphones with one having slightly different build quality and matched drivers. Yet people report differences in sound between them.

Saying the CD1000 (which I've actually never even heard of, I've heard of the CD1700 and the CD2000) is identical to the CD3000 without having heard both is just speculation, especially when apparent build and housings of both are reportedly so different. Who knows about the drivers, the magnets, the coils, the wire or the cable-- they may all be different.

Mark

 

[Mike Scarpitti]

Quote:

Originally posted by markl Same thing with HD580 vs. HD600-- now there's what even Sennheiser admits to being virtually identical sets of headphones with one having slightly different build quality and matched drivers. Yet people report differences in sound between them. Saying the CD1000 (which I've actually never even heard of, I've heard of the CD1700 and the CD2000) is identical to the CD3000 without having heard both is just speculation, especially when apparent build and housings of both are reportedly so different. Who knows about the drivers, the magnets, the coils, the wire or the cable-- they may all be different. Mark

The CD1000 came out when the CD3000 did. It had a cheaper plastic housing, and I'm sure the cord is not of the same quality as the CD3000. What I'm sure of is that the differences between them are less than (FAR less than) either of them and the Stax Lamda's that I own. In other words, if you gave me a CD3000, it might sound a LITTLE better than the CD1000, but either would be smoked by the 20-year old Stax Lamda's with an SRD-7 adapter powered by a Denon POA-1500 power amp (150 w/channel). When I compared the Stax at home to the CD1000, there was no comparison.

 

[Vertigo-1]

Quote:

Originally posted by Mike Scarpitti No, don't get me wrong. I just cannot see spending $500 on a CD3000 and $700 on a separate amp (or more) when for about that much (or less) you could get a Stax that will surely (I have NO doubt) out-perform it. That's what I'm saying. the reason I have no doubt is the physics. I don't have to listen to every dynamic out there to know that NO dynamic will beat the Stax. It CANNOT be done. It's not a matter of prejudice, but of physics.

I have no idea where you're coming from with this whole physics and mass thing. Just because a headphone has transient speed, doesn't mean it's absolutely better than another headphone.

And for the record, if you want to talk speed, there is a dynamic 'phone that has just as good transient speed as Staxs. They're called the Etymotics. I speak from currently owning the very same Lamda Pros you own, the Omega IIs, and a pair of Etymotics.

And finally, I would suggest you stop talking about the CD3000s like you've heard them, through conjecture of the CD1000. I've owned the CD1700, CD3000, and R10 before. They all use the biocellulose diaphragm. And they sound like apples to oranges to whatever the most expensive fruit is. You would literally have to be pretty hard of hearing to say all three sounded the same.