[Inks]

Unless another unit is send to a third party, I will reman skeptical. They will obviously defend their product any way they could, the notch was much bigger on an actual unit that went out to a buyer, who knows if that graph was tampered with

 

[tinyman392]

Quote:

Unless another unit is send to a third party, I will reman skeptical. They will obviously defend their product any way they could, the notch was much bigger on an actual unit that went out to a buyer, who knows if that graph was tampered with

 
Inks, the graph is smoothed, maybe a little more than to your liking.  You got your response from the manufacturer, they admit the dip is there and give reason for it.  That's what you asked for, that's what you got.  You can't expect them to source graphs from 3rd parties when you specifically ask the manufacturer to respond.  You got a response.

 

[Inks]

They didn't directly respond, if anything they seem to deny a huge suckout by possibly showing a tampered graph. It's understandable for a moderate dip to avoid sibilance, but that's not the issue it's more than just a dip its a huge suckout. They don't have to source from a 3rd party, they could send Tyll or Rin a sample and explain a few things

 

[tinyman392]

Quote:

They didn't directly respond, if anything they seem to deny a huge suckout by possibly showing a tampered graph. It's understandable for a moderate dip to avoid sibilance, but that's not the issue it's more than just a dip its a huge suckout. They don't have to source from a 3rd party, they could send Tyll or Rin a sample and explain a few things

 
Inks, you asked to get a response from the manufacturer, you got one.  If you want a direct response, go email them yourself, or ask Rin to.  They don't have to, nor need to, source to 3rd parties if they have the equipment themselves.  They admit its there, and show their smoothed graph.  It still has the stated dip there and the reasoning given.  Sibilance probably is the reason why it's there, I know lots of IEM companies that doe this dip deliberately because on-stage use requires this....  Especially with a microphone that is sibilant by nature. 
 
In essence, they confirmed your findings.  They stated their reason.  This is in all ways 100% objective.  You, at this point, are the one that's not willing to accept it.  Email them yourself, or just deal with it...  Sorry to have to be so blunt with you, please don't take it personally.

 

[Inks]

Quote:

 
Inks, you asked to get a response from the manufacturer, you got one.  If you want a direct response, go email them yourself, or ask Rin to.  They don't have to, nor need to, source to 3rd parties if they have the equipment themselves.  They admit its there, and show their smoothed graph.  It still has the stated dip there and the reasoning given.  Sibilance probably is the reason why it's there, I know lots of IEM companies that doe this dip deliberately because on-stage use requires this....  Especially with a microphone that is sibilant by nature. 
 
In essence, they confirmed your findings.  They stated their reason.  This is in all ways 100% objective.  You, at this point, are the one that's not willing to accept it.  Email them yourself, or just deal with it...  Sorry to have to be so blunt with you, please don't take it personally.

Again, it's really no response, they deny a huge suckout and say they went for a small dip to avoid sibilance, but that's not what's there....A dip to avoid sibilance is fine, it's no problem when it's there, but that's not the case here, the case is a HUGE suckout. They have not responded to what is truly there, a huge suckout, instead they are making it seem as if it's only a small dip and respond to that fantasy...

 

[Oof Oink]

Please don't tell me we're going to run full circle here...

 

[gnarlsagan]

So what was their reason for the missing 5k? I missed it. If it's to avoid sibilance then why don't other iems need missing 5k? The ER4S has zero dip at 5k and exhibits no sibilance. It doesn't seem to me that that explanation makes any sense. So until we have one that makes sense or an admission of design error, then it's logical to assume the latter.

 

[Inks]

Exactly...many companies are competent enough to avoid sibilance while not Ridding a frequency region altogether, I call that an error. Sibilants lie in 5-9k region, guess they messed up not getting rid of those frequencies too. 
 
Here's how it breaks down
 
Why is there a HUGE dip on the SM64 which basically rids of a specific fre

 

[tinyman392]

Quote:

Again, it's really no response, they deny a huge suckout and say they went for a small dip to avoid sibilance, but that's not what's there....A dip to avoid sibilance is fine, it's no problem when it's there, but that's not the case here, the case is a HUGE suckout. They have not responded to what is truly there, a huge suckout, instead they are making it seem as if it's only a small dip and respond to that fantasy...

 
Then email them.  They gave their response on the subject, it's what you asked for.  The size before a dip becomes a suck out is to be debated, it's undefined and subjective.  So that said, personally email them about it, or have Rin do it.  Otherwise, accept the response.  It's one thing to complain and whine about something if you've tried doing something about it, another if you haven't.  The fact that they responded to this Head-Fier before you shows how determined you are to obtain the answer, rather, you seem content on blaming the manufacturer. 

 

[tinyman392]

Quote:

So what was their reason for the missing 5k? I missed it. If it's to avoid sibilance then why don't other iems need missing 5k? The ER4S has zero dip at 5k and exhibits no sibilance. It doesn't seem to me that that explanation makes any sense. So until we have one that makes sense or an admission of design error, then it's logical to assume the latter.

 
If you give it the right recording, an Etymotic will become sibilant.  For live purposes, some mics are inherantly sibilant, an ER4S would be of no use on stage for that reason.  Earsonics is NOT the only company that uses a dip, or suck out, etc in the 5k to rid of sibilance. 

 

[Inks]

Then email them.  They gave their response on the subject, it's what you asked for.  The size before a dip becomes a suck out is to be debated, it's undefined and subjective.  So that said, personally email them about it, or have Rin do it.  Otherwise, accept the response.  It's one thing to complain and whine about something if you've tried doing something about it, another if you haven't.  The fact that they responded to this Head-Fier before you shows how determined you are to obtain the answer, rather, you seem content on blaming the manufacturer. 

If you don't think a 20-25db drop is a suckout, I won't try to reason. I don't care that they change their ways as they don't seem to care for the matter anyways. There is a blatant error im tuning, we can go in circles but it remains unless its accepted and fixed.

 

[tinyman392]

Quote:

If you don't think a 20-25db drop is a suckout, I won't try to reason. I don't care that they change their ways as they don't seem to care for the matter anyways. There is a blatant error im tuning, we can go in circles but it remains unless its accepted and fixed.

 
Formally email them yourself, discuss it with them...  This seems like a company that is willing to discuss it with you, take the opportunity   Never expect a company to come to you, ever; it just won't happen.

 

[Inks]

Not to me, but the consumers in general. I honestly don't care and won't bother, there are other companies out there.

 

[midnightwalker]

Quote:

Not to me, but the consumers in general. I honestly don't care and won't bother, there are other companies out there.

 
@Inks: if you do not care, just ignore it and go to other thread, I can pretty sure that will make you feel better. The reason I posted the graph in here is not because I am interested in discuss technical issue, it is because I received the response from ES and want to let people know ES is a responsive company. They are willing to discuss with you if you come to them.
 
Again, I agree with tinyman392, you can not run around to talk about the suckout and expect the company comes to get you or fix that issue. They do not get that issue in their measurement so how come they fix it? 

 

[Inks]

What I can't stand is misinformation, I would take a graph from a 3rd party more into account than one by a manufacture that may be tampered with.