E-MU 1212M goes for the modded RME's jugular
Apr 25, 2004 at 9:12 AM Post #121 of 260
Quote:

Originally Posted by Sduibek
Patrickhat2001- I think we're arguing semantics here... when I say it can rip bit-accurate, i'm basically saying that no matter WHAT you get perfect rips. As mentioned, my current drive (fine for normal stuff like games and apps) can't compare at all, because EAC doesn't even show a 100% on most rips, and even when it does show 100% I don't trust it, since this drive is just generally not reliable with DAE.


If you're not using C2 mode, you should trust EAC... that's why it's called Exact Audio Copy, because it takes pains to make an exact audio copy. If you trusted the drive, why use a secure mode software in the first place?
 
Apr 25, 2004 at 9:13 AM Post #122 of 260
Quote:

Originally Posted by fewtch
If you trusted the drive, why use a secure mode software in the first place?


Because it's fun being excessive in a Perfectionistic manner!
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Apr 25, 2004 at 9:40 AM Post #123 of 260
Quote:

Originally Posted by fewtch
If you're not using C2 mode, you should trust EAC... that's why it's called Exact Audio Copy, because it takes pains to make an exact audio copy. If you trusted the drive, why use a secure mode software in the first place?


It's not that simple. Not all drives are created equal, and EAC is not always "Exact" contrary to it's namesake. But it is exceptionally good. Not to mention that it's free.

I have had alot of problems with C2 mode with one drive and non with the other. When there is a really scratched up disc, it hangs almost indefinitely trying to find info that is not there.

For the most part, Secure mode does the best job possible. It's slower, but it's well worth it.

-Ed
 
Apr 25, 2004 at 12:36 PM Post #124 of 260
Quote:

Originally Posted by Sduibek
Patrickhat2001- I think we're arguing semantics here... when I say it can rip bit-accurate, i'm basically saying that no matter WHAT you get perfect rips. As mentioned, my current drive (fine for normal stuff like games and apps) can't compare at all, because EAC doesn't even show a 100% on most rips, and even when it does show 100% I don't trust it, since this drive is just generally not reliable with DAE.


assuming we're talking about the same numbers, EAC will not rip a track with errors. the percentages instead refer to the quality of the CD, not the rip. this makes sense of course because CDs contain a large amount of error correction
 
Apr 25, 2004 at 5:17 PM Post #125 of 260
Quote:

Originally Posted by Distroyed
But back to the EMU.... can this card mix two sources to the output? You know how the RME has no internal mixer so can handle only one source at a time without software mxing? Could one loop a soundcard through the EMU 1212m and play audio from that soundcard and the EMU simultaneously through the balanced analog output? If it can I may be letting my RME go afterall...


Yes the mixer / router is advanced. You can mix many physical and host inputs and send them to various outputs.

I send digital optical out my RME into my emu.
 
Apr 25, 2004 at 10:07 PM Post #126 of 260
Quote:

assuming we're talking about the same numbers, EAC will not rip a track with errors. the percentages instead refer to the quality of the CD, not the rip.


Well, i've had my cheap CDRW and DVD drives give me rips with artifacts before. IMO that's the goal of a drive that's "good for DAE", is to have accurate lasers, good enough C2 correction, etc, that you don't ever have things like artifacts from a disc with junk on it.

Oh oh, and I remember on my Apocalyptica CD, Track 9 gives me a Sync Error on EAC. So there!
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I think that's the first CD i'll EAC with this new drive (somehow it hasn't arrived yet, even with Priority USPS, garr), to see if I still get the Sync Error.
 
Apr 26, 2004 at 5:34 AM Post #127 of 260
Quote:

Originally Posted by lan
Yes the mixer / router is advanced. You can mix many physical and host inputs and send them to various outputs.

I send digital optical out my RME into my emu.



Is the quality of the audio degraded with multiple signals?
 
Apr 26, 2004 at 6:04 AM Post #128 of 260
Quote:

Originally Posted by Distroyed
Is the quality of the audio degraded with multiple signals?


This question could mean many things. Care to elaborate further what you are hooking up and what multiple signals?
 
Apr 26, 2004 at 7:16 AM Post #131 of 260
And I've been doing some more comparison tests tonight, after allowing a few more days of blackgate burn-in time on the EMU, and there is no doubt that the EMU is definitely more enjoyable to listen to, without dabbling in audiophilespeak
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I am going to pimp out the digital card with blackgates the way lan did, so we will see what kind of difference that makes. Hopefully I should get those caps within the week.
 
Apr 26, 2004 at 7:26 AM Post #132 of 260
I'm still waiting for my blackgates. Must be USPS not giving me slips again.
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How long did it take them to arrive to you?

You must have a stock of them
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to have spares.
 
Apr 26, 2004 at 7:31 AM Post #133 of 260
Quote:

Originally Posted by lan
I'm still waiting for my blackgates. Must be USPS not giving me slips again.
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How long did it take them to arrive to you?

You must have a stock of them
biggrin.gif
to have spares.




When I've ordered from partsconnexion it usually takes about a week or so. I bought a bunch a ways back with the intention of replacing the caps of the RME, before I figured out it didn't need the caps at all for the opamp mod.. I've been using up my stash doing these bypass mods though, and I'm down to my last pair.

Besides, the EMU board needs a lot of different ones anyways. You're doing all the ones on the digital board, right? You know the two in the bottom closest to the Firewire port are just for it and don't effect the audio in any way, right? Just making sure so you wouldn't bother changing them.
 
Apr 26, 2004 at 9:30 AM Post #134 of 260
Quote:

the EMU is definitely more enjoyable to listen to, without dabbling in audiophilespeak


Oh come on, humour us. We've all waited for the Definitive Review, and you never posted it! You just said "it's better."

The Definitive Review should be upon us already. We have been deprived! Shame on you.
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Not that it matters, since you don't "have" to go into detail if it's just overall better. But why not, it drives home the betterness
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Apr 26, 2004 at 12:58 PM Post #135 of 260
[offtopic]
Couple of corrections:

1) Almost all modern cd/dvd drives sold today are bit accurate. Bit accurate means that it can coherently re-sync between various read audio disc parts (regardless of cache) and produce accurate bit stream. CD audio does not contain synchronisation bits, so the drive has to do this.

2) In addition to this, there is "bad condition" discs reading performance, which can vary from drive to drive (regardless of the drives' bit accuracy!). Bad condition can be for example, scratches, dirt, smudges, problems on the reflective layer (loss of reflectivity), problems on the dye layer (chemical reactions to UV for example), bad burn (Radial run out, bad HF signal, jitter, etc).

3) Various drives ability to read "bad condition" discs varies a lot. There is not single generally known best drive for this. Plextor makes good drives (Plextor Premium), so does LiteOn (LiteOn 52327S for example). Generally CD-ROM, CDR and CD drives are better at audio ripping of "bad discs" than dvd/combo drives, although there are exceptions. A trustworthy place to get an idea of various drives "bad condition" disc reading capabilities is www.cdrinfo.com hardware reviews. They test with various industry standard test discs. In fact, I think their testing in this regards is unsurpassed by any publicly available data (print/web/any other publication).

4) When the drive fails to read the correct data and actually catches this (they don't always notice when CRC is not correct, this is an inherent problem in audio cd ripping), it then tries to A) re-read and if it fails it will B) fill in the missing samples.

5) There are various ways to fill in the missing samples (on drive level): fill with silence, hold last, linear extrapolation and higher order interpolation. The methods are listed here in the order of increased accuracy (i.e. likelihood of guessing the bits right and/or making the corrections inaudible to humans). Many modern drives these days use higher order binomial interpolation, but not all.

6) When the drive has returned the data a software can check the ECD and compare the correction data from the disc to the actual payload data on the disc, to determine if the read was done correctly. EAC can re-read the data off the disc many times and can be configured not to trust the ECC/C2 flags that the drive returns. There is still debate as to which drives should be trusted in this regard and when the EACs own checking should be used instead. On best of the drives, drive level C2 flagging can produce highest accuracy rips combined with higest rip speeds

7) EAC is not always the best tool to rip "bad condition" discs: it is not always the fastests nor is it always the most accurate in the rips. On plextor drives using Plextools Pro with the "5. Recover best bytes" option can be even more accurate (and faster). Of course, only on selected Plextor drives (like Plextor Premium for example). It is also best used for ripping intentionally "bad condition" discs like Cactus Data Shield 200 protected discs commercial discs (note, these are not within Red Book specifications anymore and cannot be called "compact discs" or CDs anymore).

8) CD-ROM and CD-R Data discs (yellow book and orange book specifications, respectively) contain an additional level of data checking/correction layer that the audio discs (red book) do not contain. This means that while a certain amount of damage to a data disc still keeps the data disc readable, the same amount of damage on an audio compact disc can destroy part of the audio disc completely unreadable. In short, CD-R (data) or CD-ROM (data) <> compact disc (audio). They are different formats with different levels of error correction and synchronisation bits.

[/offtopic]

That concludes our CD audio ripping tutorial for today
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