Distroyed
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Sheesh, all that modding must have taken hours!
E-MU 1212M goes for the modded RME's jugular
- Thread starter Iron_Dreamer
- Start date
Quote:
Well, yeah, but it's fun so I don't care. Plus it is much slower the first time. Once I know what I'm doing for sure, the subsequent jobs can be done in a more timely fashion. I'd estimate I spend 6 hours on the card this first time around, as I didn't want to make any mistakes (not my card to mess up, remember).
| Originally Posted by Distroyed Sheesh, all that modding must have taken hours! |
Well, yeah, but it's fun so I don't care. Plus it is much slower the first time. Once I know what I'm doing for sure, the subsequent jobs can be done in a more timely fashion. I'd estimate I spend 6 hours on the card this first time around, as I didn't want to make any mistakes (not my card to mess up, remember).
Impressions: (*note that BOTH cards are modded significantly)
E-MU 1212M Mod MK1, Blackgates, Analog Stage Bypass:
More clarity, more micro detail, a bit better imaging, larger soundstage. Did I mention more clarity?
Speed was improved too.
However, there is significantly diminished bass and dynamics. But bass was flatter, cleaner, more detailed. But a large portion of the lowest extensions really drop out. Hopefully an OP amp upgrade will bring the bass back. However, since the CD3000's are bass mongers compared to the R10's it fits better with the CD3000's. I liked the increased clarity and soundstage, but the bass was too thin for my tastes with the R10's.
RME digi96/8 Analog Stage Bypass, Balanced Output:
The Bass is far stronger and overall "attack" and dynamics of this card is stronger. In comparison, the bass is boomier in comparison, but not too bloated. The E-MU 1212M is quite "laid back" compared to the RME PAD.
There is a definite veil overall compared to the EMU-1212M. Listening to the subtle rapid violin bow strokes in Paganini's Concerto No.1, you could hear them more easily than with the RME PAD (which I could still discern, but it is more effortless with the E-MU)
These cards sound very different from one another. At this point I still prefer the Modded RME PAD, as I find the loss of bass and dynamics unacceptable to my ears.
Now if the Bass and Dynamics can equal or exceed the Modded RME PAD, then we're talking bye bye to the RME PAD in the main music system.
Now we'll have to see (hear) how the E-MU sounds with some class A biased OPA627's and LT1122's next.
I know it's just me wanting more overkill, but I'm wondering if that little transformer can be swapped out for a little toroidal one.
-Ed
E-MU 1212M Mod MK1, Blackgates, Analog Stage Bypass:
More clarity, more micro detail, a bit better imaging, larger soundstage. Did I mention more clarity?
Speed was improved too.
However, there is significantly diminished bass and dynamics. But bass was flatter, cleaner, more detailed. But a large portion of the lowest extensions really drop out. Hopefully an OP amp upgrade will bring the bass back. However, since the CD3000's are bass mongers compared to the R10's it fits better with the CD3000's. I liked the increased clarity and soundstage, but the bass was too thin for my tastes with the R10's.
RME digi96/8 Analog Stage Bypass, Balanced Output:
The Bass is far stronger and overall "attack" and dynamics of this card is stronger. In comparison, the bass is boomier in comparison, but not too bloated. The E-MU 1212M is quite "laid back" compared to the RME PAD.
There is a definite veil overall compared to the EMU-1212M. Listening to the subtle rapid violin bow strokes in Paganini's Concerto No.1, you could hear them more easily than with the RME PAD (which I could still discern, but it is more effortless with the E-MU)
These cards sound very different from one another. At this point I still prefer the Modded RME PAD, as I find the loss of bass and dynamics unacceptable to my ears.
Now if the Bass and Dynamics can equal or exceed the Modded RME PAD, then we're talking bye bye to the RME PAD in the main music system.
Now we'll have to see (hear) how the E-MU sounds with some class A biased OPA627's and LT1122's next.
I know it's just me wanting more overkill, but I'm wondering if that little transformer can be swapped out for a little toroidal one.
-Ed
Oh and another thing:
I HATE E-mu's drivers and interface!
ARGH!
Holy crap is that unnecessarily a pain in the ass to deal with.
I haven't had a chance to see if it will work in harmony with an Audigy 2 as a gaming card, but the RME cards are sooooooo much easier to use.
The use of an E-MU card would pretty necessitate a totally separate computer for music and another for gaming for me. Heheh, good thing I've got this spare Mini-ITX computer I've been playing with.
-Ed
I HATE E-mu's drivers and interface!
Holy crap is that unnecessarily a pain in the ass to deal with.
I haven't had a chance to see if it will work in harmony with an Audigy 2 as a gaming card, but the RME cards are sooooooo much easier to use.
The use of an E-MU card would pretty necessitate a totally separate computer for music and another for gaming for me. Heheh, good thing I've got this spare Mini-ITX computer I've been playing with.
-Ed
Quote:
The strange thing is that to me, the EMU only seems to be bass light after listening to the RME right before. In fact the RME's bas acually sounds overdone to me compared to the current EMU. Perhaps I have just grown used to the modded EMU's sound. There is no doubt that the EMU is clearer than the RME, another layer of garbage lifted off the sound, thanks likely in large part to the power conditioning and blackgates.
| Originally Posted by Edwood However, there is significantly diminished bass and dynamics. But bass was flatter, cleaner, more detailed. But a large portion of the lowest extensions really drop out. Hopefully an OP amp upgrade will bring the bass back. However, since the CD3000's are bass mongers compared to the R10's it fits better with the CD3000's. I liked the increased clarity and soundstage, but the bass was too thin for my tastes with the R10's. |
The strange thing is that to me, the EMU only seems to be bass light after listening to the RME right before. In fact the RME's bas acually sounds overdone to me compared to the current EMU. Perhaps I have just grown used to the modded EMU's sound. There is no doubt that the EMU is clearer than the RME, another layer of garbage lifted off the sound, thanks likely in large part to the power conditioning and blackgates.
I'd like Ed to explain what he means by attack and dynamics. IME, the E-MU compared to my RME sounded "faster", in fact to my ears the stock E-MU really sounded better in most ways (see my post in "intial e-mu 1212m impressions"). Granted, I didn't take the time to do a full fledged comparison, since in my setup that's a total PITA, but... *shug*
Anyways, back to the question at hand... Ed.. what do you mean by dynamics and attack? And how can you call the E-MU laidback? To me it only sounded smoother in the sense that there was no digital harshness, etc. I never remember thinking the E-MU was laidback. In fact I was banging my head more than I did with the RME.
I remember typing "less analytical than the RME (although as mentioned the RME isn't analytical)".. but that does NOT mean laidback.
I think we need to arrange a review for Ed's ears and brain versus healthy specimens
Anyways, back to the question at hand... Ed.. what do you mean by dynamics and attack? And how can you call the E-MU laidback? To me it only sounded smoother in the sense that there was no digital harshness, etc. I never remember thinking the E-MU was laidback. In fact I was banging my head more than I did with the RME.
I remember typing "less analytical than the RME (although as mentioned the RME isn't analytical)".. but that does NOT mean laidback.
I think we need to arrange a review for Ed's ears and brain versus healthy specimens
I compared that E-MU to an RME with an Analog Stage Bypass. It is a significant improvement over an OP amp swap and Cap bypass.
What I mean by dynamics is the viseral impact. The most obvious is the strike of a snare drum and bass drum. To me it was more "rocking" than the E-MU. I preferred the E-MU for classical, but anything with percussion was lacking, IMO.
That said, I finished bypassing my RME PAD completely. As per Wodgy and Glassman's recommendations, I cut the traces leading to the 1/4" jacks. Wow, it' a definite improvement. I guess I didn't have it totally bypassed before.
The E-MU is still cleaner probably.
Y'know, the next Mod really needs to be the software and drivers. We really really need a bypass for that annoying interface, so it works with programs like Foobar the way the RME's do.
Anyone good at hacking software and drivers?
-Ed
What I mean by dynamics is the viseral impact. The most obvious is the strike of a snare drum and bass drum. To me it was more "rocking" than the E-MU. I preferred the E-MU for classical, but anything with percussion was lacking, IMO.
That said, I finished bypassing my RME PAD completely. As per Wodgy and Glassman's recommendations, I cut the traces leading to the 1/4" jacks. Wow, it' a definite improvement. I guess I didn't have it totally bypassed before.
The E-MU is still cleaner probably.
Y'know, the next Mod really needs to be the software and drivers. We really really need a bypass for that annoying interface, so it works with programs like Foobar the way the RME's do.
Anyone good at hacking software and drivers?
-Ed
On more thing, I stated that I preferred the current iteration of the RME PAD for my R10. I think the E-MU would really put to bed the whole notion of the CD3000 having exaggerated bass. The modded E-MU is a better fit synergistically for what many would consider "bass heavy" headphones.
That also depends on what amp you are using too.
-Ed
That also depends on what amp you are using too.
-Ed
Quote:
No need.
I have two witnesses that were there to conclude that there is indeed a difference in bass and dynamics between the two cards.
Now this does not imediately mean a good or bad thing. It's all down to personal preference.
It's the same argument as one man's laid back is another's smooth. One man's bright is another's harsh. One man's deep is another's boomy. You get the idea.....
-Ed
| Originally Posted by Sduibek I think we need to arrange a review for Ed's ears and brain versus healthy specimens
|
No need.
I have two witnesses that were there to conclude that there is indeed a difference in bass and dynamics between the two cards.
Now this does not imediately mean a good or bad thing. It's all down to personal preference.
It's the same argument as one man's laid back is another's smooth. One man's bright is another's harsh. One man's deep is another's boomy. You get the idea.....
-Ed
pbirkett
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Has the drop in bass power on the EMU occurred since it was modded, or did it always seem to have subjectively less bass than the RME?
Reason for asking is that I do NOT consider the CD3000 to be bass monsters, they have good slam, but IMO need a source with powerful bass to sound their best, so the EMU will get crossed off my list after reading that I think...
Reason for asking is that I do NOT consider the CD3000 to be bass monsters, they have good slam, but IMO need a source with powerful bass to sound their best, so the EMU will get crossed off my list after reading that I think...
yeeyy
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Ed, do you possible to carry out RMAA for both cards and do a comparison?
lan
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Quote:
Well the emu driver interface is very powerful and flexible. That's the tradeoff
Ed, have you tried the emu in balanced output?
About the bass, just EQ it
| Originally Posted by Edwood I HATE E-mu's drivers and interface!
Holy crap is that unnecessarily a pain in the ass to deal with. the RME cards are sooooooo much easier to use. |
Well the emu driver interface is very powerful and flexible. That's the tradeoff
Ed, have you tried the emu in balanced output?
About the bass, just EQ it
Quote:
I cannot get RMAA to work properly with the EMU, even on the special session designed just for it, I kept trying for hours, but finally just gave up.
| Originally Posted by yeeyy Ed, do you possible to carry out RMAA for both cards and do a comparison? |
I cannot get RMAA to work properly with the EMU, even on the special session designed just for it, I kept trying for hours, but finally just gave up.
Glassman
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Quote:
use some app supporting ASIO playback/recording like Wavelab or such to play and record the RMAA test wavs and let RMAA analyse the recording.. this way you can test 24/96, 24/192, 24/176.4, anything.. I'm also interested in the results!
| Originally Posted by Iron_Dreamer I cannot get RMAA to work properly with the EMU, even on the special session designed just for it, I kept trying for hours, but finally just gave up. |
use some app supporting ASIO playback/recording like Wavelab or such to play and record the RMAA test wavs and let RMAA analyse the recording.. this way you can test 24/96, 24/192, 24/176.4, anything.. I'm also interested in the results!
Quote:
I've tried that, when the card was stock, and no matter what I did it wouldn't work. This issue is one reason why I got so pissed with the driver/interface. I don't care though, since I love the sound. BTW this card can't do 176.4, only 44, 48, 96, and 192.
| Originally Posted by Glassman use some app supporting ASIO playback/recording like Wavelab or such to play and record the RMAA test wavs and let RMAA analyse the recording.. this way you can test 24/96, 24/192, 24/176.4, anything.. I'm also interested in the results! |
I've tried that, when the card was stock, and no matter what I did it wouldn't work. This issue is one reason why I got so pissed with the driver/interface. I don't care though, since I love the sound. BTW this card can't do 176.4, only 44, 48, 96, and 192.
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